Low Time Engine vs. Updated Panel

[Jeff K]

And it's obvious you didn't have answers for any of the 13, so maybe you should stick to something you know more about.

I knew enough after the first round of 7 questions that I was wasting my time trying to engage Wayne the EE. (and I shall note you didn't even bother trying to answer my serious questions earlier.).

Nor was the conversation exclusively or even predominately about displays until you put your foot in it and displayed your ignorance.

So let's see... you are telling me about electrical engineering and I'm *not* telling you how to broker airplanes.... and I'm displaying my ignorance? Gotcha...

But you are right... the conversation was not about display's... it was about life-cycles on newer avionics... many of which contain displays, firmware and often databases.

We good now or is there anything else you'd like to get off your chest?

 

[Jay Honeck]

If it were me and I intended to hold onto the aircraft past 7 years, I'd pick whatever looked cheaper to install ADS-B into.

Several of us were thinking along these lines at OSH this year, and picked the brains of the Garmin reps pretty close to the bone.

The bottom line: Putting ADS-B into an existing rack is still a mish mash of fal-dee-rall and poo-pee-doo. They are trying to get close to a "magic box" that can be installed in any plane, to work with any avionics stack -- but they're not even close. Yet.

I look at it this way: Two years ago, having ADS-B on a moving map chart was science fiction. Now, for less than 1 AMU, I've got it, and weather, and fuel prices, TFRs, PIREPs, and a jillion other amazing things.

Google Glass is coming, soon. It won't be long until someone has a complete HUD on that thing, making your $20K avionics stack worth a warm bucket of spit.

Within five years, everything in my panel will be projected on one big HDTV screen. Heck, the Dynon is already close to that -- for less than $5K. It's a brave new world, and we are all the beneficiaries.

I would take the low time engine, and fly the existing, lesser panel until such time as the technology lines of maturity and affordability cross. That's exactly what I'm doing with the -8. (And yes, I know experimentals are different -- but they are leading our way into the future. I'll bet Paul Poberzney never expected to see THAT happen in his lifetime!)

 

[Jeff K]

The display technology:

Google Glass is coming, soon. It won't be long until someone has a complete HUD on that thing, making your $20K avionics stack worth a warm bucket of spit.

Within five years, everything in my panel will be projected on one big HDTV screen. Heck, the Dynon is already close to that -- for less than $5K. It's a brave new world, and we are all the beneficiaries.

Plus the regulatory relief for General Aviation (and please call your Senator about this bill.. it passed both sides of the house):

One other mid to long term affect on value/cost is the Small Airplane Revitalization Act of 2013 (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr1848/text) which passed the U.S. house in July. Have no idea where it is at in the senate. It would allegedly require the FAA to change small aircraft certification in Part 23 to consensus standards like those used for LSAs and performance-based regulations. In theory firms like Dynon that only cater to the experimental market would find it less burdensome to move into the certified market. And therefore new and used avionics would decline in dollar value.

Conceptually, with much of the cost and complexity moving into displays, firmware and ongoing support (databases etc), I can see the certified aircraft moving to a sensor based model, with a common databus (the big boys have done that with some proposals out for GA... there even was a talk at Oshkosh this year on it using CAN BUS). Basic instrumentation, like pitot, static, AOA, AHRS, magnetic compass, GPS, etc would talk on a data bus (could even be wireless) in the aircraft.

This would allow decoupling of basic instrumentation from proprietary display devices yet allow this data to be feed to a more generic COTS display device. That way more stable calibrated technology (and invasive to the aircraft) would remain while just the display/database products are updated. Think of a docking station that has power/ground and a 2 wire data bus. 4 wires total.

BTW Jay, in doing some google searches I ran across some of your postings a few months ago about using Android as a front end device for instrumentation. While I'd been considering that for a project I was considering... that cemented it. Without going into too much detail, I'm using straight forward PMA'ed probes coupled into an Android device acting as the display/post processing. Takes a quite useful ~$15,000 box, removes $13K+ from the hardware price and lessens the labor by 80%. I should have something to show by late Q4 '13.

P.S. Speaking of google glass, did you see the company in the innovation pavilion at Oshkosh with a similar product? My interest in the glasses worn HUD is primarily on short final when my attention is fully out the window. I'd want to see airspeed, AOA and maybe VSI almost in idiot light format (i.e. target numbers with just too high/too low indications). Some of the current AOA displays do a good job with this.

 

[Jay Honeck]

BTW Jay, in doing some google searches I ran across some of your postings a few months ago about using Android as a front end device for instrumentation. While I'd been considering that for a project I was considering... that cemented it. Without going into too much detail, I'm using straight forward PMA'ed probes coupled into an Android device acting as the display/post processing. Takes a quite useful ~$15,000 box, removes $13K+ from the hardware price and lessens the labor by 80%. I should have something to show by late Q4 '13.

P.S. Speaking of google glass, did you see the company in the innovation pavilion at Oshkosh with a similar product? My interest in the glasses worn HUD is primarily on short final when my attention is fully out the window. I'd want to see airspeed, AOA and maybe VSI almost in idiot light format (i.e. target numbers with just too high/too low indications). Some of the current AOA displays do a good job with this.

Very cool to hear! If you need a beta tester, let me know!

Yep, I saw that guy in the Innovation Pavilion at OSH. That technology has the power to change EVERYTHING, not just flying.

Bottom line: I might put a Dynon in the -8 in the next year or two, but I'm not going overboard. IMHO, many of the in-panel avionics boxes we see today are about to follow the stand-alone automotive GPS into history.

Really, the only thing that MIGHT slow the avionics revolution down is the FAA.

 

[Ted]

Ed, I think we need a "Hitler Responds to Avionics" now.