Lost my confidence :(

CC268 said:
Yea I think the course will be very beneficial for me.

I guess just sometimes I wonder...I'm only 23 years old...and sometimes reading all these accidents makes you think "wow if I keep flying I will likely have an engine failure at some point"...and you just have to hope your not over mountainous Arizona terrain. I want to have a family and kids some day and it seems like chances are I'm gonna be dead in a plane crash before I hit the age of 40. If I was flying in flatland Texas I probabaly wouldn't be as worried. Sometimes I think to myself "I only have 67 hours how the hell can I handle engine failure and land on a city street...that's a job for a pilot with thousands of hours!"
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I will be 40 in 11 months. Don't care about crash anymore . Kidding. I was terrified of flying and the first 5 hrs I would go up there and think in my head, why the heck am I doing this? Few times I though this is my last flight, this GA thing is not for me. I have a thing for fall8ng from great heights. I am glad I pushed through it, now at 11.4 hrs I am getting comfortable with banks, turns, pulling the power to idle (Look ma, the plane didn't drop like a rock) and today stalls. Keep pushing yourself. Today I came home and want to go back up again, today, everyday... that's a problem I never thought I will have. And yes, like you I have seen every video there is about crash, engine out, base to final oops, listen to atc audio that captured very sad
final moments and words... at one point I was determined to stay at home. Then it dawned upon me...I won't be able to live like this and one day I slip on my driveway, hit my head and die... doing pretty much nothing. I told myself, I would rather die in a plane crash and drove to words the airport to do some training. Loved it. Living is all about pushing your comfort zones, I am doing that, I hope u do that too...

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RotorDude said:
Yeah, acro training is good for sure. I took 10 hours of it as a low time PPL, doing mostly hammerheads, level inverted flight, loops and rolls. Unfortunately my instructors died a few years afterwards, while practicing the same maneuvers they had taught me (except they were in a tight formation with each other).
But that tragedy aside, feeling comfortable with loops, spins, rolls, stalls, etc. added confidence to my normal power fixed wing flying, and doing glider stalls, spins, and loops (many years later) became piece of cake. The most important point, which is also related to helicopters, is to develop an instinctive feel to what your aircraft will do under any condition, similar to your own body. All this is not to say you should abuse your aircraft, since if you over-abuse it, esp. down low, it will bite.
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French Connection couple? I met them and did acro with one of their instructors before their accident.
 
Fly more often. You'll gain confidence. Someone with less than a couple hundred hours flying once a month won't be enough to reinforce habits and gain confidence in the machine.
 
Ravioli said:
Don't bother with aerobatics. Your plane isn't capable and you don't need to be either.

Unusual attitude recovery is nice skill. Avoiding unusual attitudes is a much better skill.

You need to fly through this impasse you've come to. "If only I knew x, y, z or 1, 2,3" is not where you'll find the answer. More experience flying your current machine within the constructs of your training will prove much more helpful.

The mindset of training to do what you should be avoiding is tantamount to saying you won't carry a passenger in your PA28-140 until you have your ATP certificate. It makes no sense.

Perhaps a better parallel is to think about when you learned to drive an automobile. How did you conquer your fear of freeways? Did you go to Indy Racing School, or did you just do it for short stretches on low volume days?
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I mean I understand where your coming from and I agree the way I get comfortable in the Cherokee 140 is fly the Cherokee 140...but I don't think that makes the unusual attitude/upset recovery course pointless...I can fly my Cherokee 140 or fly with an instructor alongside the aerobatics course...
 
Anyways I knew it would be a mixed batch of replies regarding the training...but I wasn't really asking for affirmation of what ratings, courses, etc I should take. Regardless I need to fly my plane more often and build confidence
 
Channel the nagging fear into concentration. I've always got a little knot in my stomach as I go through pre-flight, run-up, etc., but it's that little bit of nerves that makes me a better pilot.
 
Yep. Fly more and keep practicing the your emergency procedures... You'll get that feeling less and less. I had a very similar conversation about 5 months after my PPL and about 100 hours in. The plane went in the shop for almost 2 months. I felt like I'd lost some nerve. I went over the checklists a couple extra times and took it slow. Felt like my first solo again. Now 3 years and 400 hrs in I still don't like when I'm not able to fly for a month (it happens occasionally) but I don't feel like I've lost my nerve quite as much when I get back to it.

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I have had a few OH SH#$ experiences. I always went right back up so I didn't get to long to get myself worked up or over think it.

The hardest one for me was just after I started to solo (5th or 6th solo). I got to the plane and found out the first flight had cancled the flight because it did not pass the mag check. It had fouled plugs and was fixed before me. Didn't think twice about it. I took off and had a great flight. A few hours later it was raining and cloudy. One of the CFIs had a IFR lesson and the plane went down in the lake. The plane still has not been found (has been a few years) and the bodies came to shore about a week late.

It was the only 172 the school had and it did rattle me. It was about 2 weeks since I flew and I couldn't get it out of my head. I decide I had to go back up before I talked myself out of flying. The school had a Cherokee 180, so I went up in that and had the most fun I have had to date. I felt like I was in a jet. Lol

RIP the crew of N46707
 
Alright guys first lesson is setup for January 29th! Woo hoo! Decided to go with the Emergency/Unusual Attitude Recovery course. Still do some of the basic aerobatic manuevers with an emphasis on spin recovery and unusual attitude recovery...get to do falling leaf stalls, and really "experiment" with spins...flat spins, accelerated spins (I think that is what he called it...using ailerons), seeing what a "base to final spin" is and how it develops, etc...should be great!
 
NOLA Pilot said:
I have had a few OH SH#$ experiences. I always went right back up so I didn't get to long to get myself worked up or over think it.

The hardest one for me was just after I started to solo (5th or 6th solo). I got to the plane and found out the first flight had cancled the flight because it did not pass the mag check. It had fouled plugs and was fixed before me. Didn't think twice about it. I took off and had a great flight. A few hours later it was raining and cloudy. One of the CFIs had a IFR lesson and the plane went down in the lake. The plane still has not been found (has been a few years) and the bodies came to shore about a week late.

It was the only 172 the school had and it did rattle me. It was about 2 weeks since I flew and I couldn't get it out of my head. I decide I had to go back up before I talked myself out of flying. The school had a Cherokee 180, so I went up in that and had the most fun I have had to date. I felt like I was in a jet. Lol

RIP the crew of N46707
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Wow that is nuts
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Fly more often. You'll gain confidence. Someone with less than a couple hundred hours flying once a month won't be enough to reinforce habits and gain confidence in the machine.
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:yeahthat:

If I haven't flew for three weeks I feel rusty already... Also, fly with you dad - I assume he has his PPL too. You could go to airports for breakfast or lunch together. You will be surprised how much you learn by being a co-pilot.
 
Skywalker said:
:yeahthat:

If I haven't flew for three weeks I feel rusty already... Also, fly with you dad - I assume he has his PPL too. You could go to airports for breakfast or lunch together. You will be surprised how much you learn by being a co-pilot.
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Yea I know I should fly with my dad...he has about 130 hours I think...not a lot...but he has already been to both Big Bear and Flagstaff in our 140 lol...I guess I just get nervous flying with other people unless I know they are at least a CFI or airline pilot lol
 
RotorDude said:
Yep.
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Yeah that was a sad deal. I was actually in Flagler the day of the accident.

Met Daniel at the office a few months earlier to schedule a ride. He was showing me some of his photos from his military days. I think he flew for the French AF demo team at one time. Seemed like good people.
 
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I think it's normal to get butterflies in your stomach before flying. Most sane, intelligent people don't want to die in a fiery crash, so they assess risks and try to mitigate them by considering all the likely failure scenarios, and determine how they would handle them. One could spend hours evaluating all the NTSB reports worrying about how it could happen to you. However, that behavior can be counterproductive if you obsess over it or learn nothing from it. Also remember, many of those fatal accidents are due to Darwin award winners who made a string of poor decisions, often starting before they left the ground. Your odds are greatly improved if you have good preflight planning and decision making. The skills you already have from your PPL training will do wonders to keep you safe as long as you use them.

If I was you I would push through it and do some of the advanced training you've been considering.

I determined years ago that I can sufficiently mitigate risks by making conservative no-go decisions if any factor of the flight is less than my personal minimums. By the way, I started flying at 18 and here I am in my 40s alive and kicking. When I'm too old to fly, I would hate to reflect on a life where I allowed a little apprehension destroy a hobby I love.
 
I'm a big proponent of continuing and advanced training, however at your current level of flight time I think your money would be much better spent flying the crap out of your little 140.

Get out and push your limits... practice short fields, simulated engine outs, crosswinds etc... practice until you not only become proficient, but to the point that you're so competent, you actually begin enjoying it and looking forward to it.

Feeling comfortable and skilled in your own aircraft is going to do more for you at this point than hammer heads and spins ever will. Then later down the road when you're feeling good about your abilities, pursue the advanced training.

PJ
 
Your instincts are right. Often, flying anxiety stems from the fear of not being in control. Truth is, we aren't always in control in our aircraft. Fly through a jet's wake or hit severe turbulence and you could be upside down before you realize what happened. Confidence in knowing you can get out of anything that comes up will help tremendously and upset recovery with a good CFI is money very well spent.

CC268 said:
I mean I understand where your coming from and I agree the way I get comfortable in the Cherokee 140 is fly the Cherokee 140...but I don't think that makes the unusual attitude/upset recovery course pointless...I can fly my Cherokee 140 or fly with an instructor alongside the aerobatics course...
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Velocity173 said:
Yeah that was a sad deal. I was actually in Flagler the day of the accident.

Met Daniel at the office a few months earlier to schedule a ride. He was showing me some of his photos from his military days. I think he flew for the French AF demo team at one time. Seemed like good people.
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Yes, they were both very nice, as well as good instructors. Some info and links about them here.
 
Like I said I came prepared knowing I would get a lot of different comments. The reality is I plane to fly my 140 a lot AND do the upset recovery training...so best of both worlds. Ask 10 different people get 10 different answers...can't meet everyone's expectations I guess
 
Don't worry you'll probably stroke out, have a MI, septic, bacteria eats you alive, etc before you crash that bug smasher.

Your biggest concern should be sucking the juice out of life before that time comes.

You're worried about death lol, I'm worried about living as much as I can, we all gotta cash in the chips, no one makes it out alive, carpe diem
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
My motto is....make peace with God....and the rest won't matter. :D
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Next time you have a engine failure or heavy cross wind, through your hands up and trust in god to save you, if you're worthy he will right? And of not its gods will.

Life is way too short for worship.
 
James331 said:
Next time you have a engine failure or heavy cross wind, through your hands up and trust in god to save you, if you're worthy he will right? And of not its gods will.

Life is way too short for religion.
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Amen bro....bring it on. If I can't do it He will take me to eternity. :D
 
James331 said:
Don't worry you'll probably stroke out, have a MI, septic, bacteria eats you alive, etc before you crash that bug smasher.

Your biggest concern should be sucking the juice out of life before that time comes.

You're worried about death lol, I'm worried about living as much as I can, we all gotta cash in the chips, no one makes it out alive, carpe diem
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Yea that's true James...your normally kind of a dick but you got a good point lol
 
You live in Phoenix. You have some of the nicest destinations around you. Use them!! :)
 
At my place of work, we use the concept of " Your body will not go where the mind has never been". It is applied that training, training, training is what will save you.

Train for failure, expect it, recognize its indicators, react to it. Every time I take off, I say out loud my best glide. I pay attention when Im landing where I could dump this hunk of metal if I lost power. Decide what is going to happen before it happens. When it does happen, your subconscious mind (the boss) will react much, much quicker than your conscience mind will.

Oh yea..... Don't fly a Cirrus. That should double your chances of not having an engine failure.
 
Thanks again to all have commented it's been good info :)
 
Silly humans acting as if you have any say in the matter. ;)
 
Do whatever you think will help you be comfortable. It is common, in my opinion, for good pilots to be introspective about risks of this hobby/profession at times. Don't let that thought process discourage you. It's a heathy thing most of the time. I had to say goodbye to a dear friend last year when he flew west. It was hard. It affected me more than I thought it would and I went through the same type of assessment of my choices as a pilot.
 
RotorDude said:
If you are an average GA pilot, no better and no worse, you're likely to have a fatal accident if you fly 100,000 hrs or so. If you figure you might fly 5,000 hrs over your lifetime (well above the average GA pilot), your odds of dying while flying get lowered by a factor of 20 (IOW, if you lived 20 lives, you'll die while flying in only one of them).
But if you read the accident reports carefully (as I do all the time), you'll notice the vast majority are due to some egregious carelessness, negligence or ignorance, almost as if the pilot was asking for it. If you resolve to always fly safely, do a careful preflight, give yourself extra safety margins, and not do anything really stupid, you can reduce your chances for an accident drastically, to the point where you'll be much more likely to die of something else (which should be the goal of every pilot).
Having said all that, the day you stop worrying that your next flight is going to kill you, will be the day you should hang'em up, since complacency definitely kills.
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This. Many accidents are due to factors you can manage; don't do drugs or alcohol prior to or during flying. Do check the weather. Don't fly into instrument weather without an instrument rating and airplane. Do practice landings. Don't do practice aerobatics close to the ground, etc. Try reading the Killing Zone, it was a good book on this, and don't be shy about getting more instruction; that will help with this.
 
CC268 said:
I wish I had the skills of those back country bush pilots...those guys can land in a damn Walmart parking lot...it would be a blast to learn that stuff...make you really confident with forced landings.
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http://bush-air.com

Really damn close to you and comes with good recommendations.

I will be using him shortly.


Oh, and sell that Cherokee and buy a Maule.. you can do touch-and-gos in the wal mart parking lot.....

On the subject of the first post.... I'm up to 268hrs now and I still have moments of the same. My best friend is just over 100 hrs and has only flown five times since getting his PPL last June.

Same reasons.


What did it for me originally, was the asshat that turned his lance into a popsicle a little over a year ago and augered in ten miles from my house with his wife and kids on board.





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Acro might be good for long term. For now, get in the airplane and practice engine outs to a landing at your favorite nontowered airport. With or without an instructor, but do it soon. Start with a conventional power off 180 from pattern altitude. Then adjust position around the airport and altitude (upward) so you can use that as the termination of any engine out scenario.

Screw the fancy stuff. You need to convince yourself you can put it down if the engine quits.
 
CC268 said:
Yea I think the course will be very beneficial for me.

I guess just sometimes I wonder...I'm only 23 years old...and sometimes reading all these accidents makes you think "wow if I keep flying I will likely have an engine failure at some point"...and you just have to hope your not over mountainous Arizona terrain. I want to have a family and kids some day and it seems like chances are I'm gonna be dead in a plane crash before I hit the age of 40. If I was flying in flatland Texas I probabaly wouldn't be as worried. Sometimes I think to myself "I only have 67 hours how the hell can I handle engine failure and land on a city street...that's a job for a pilot with thousands of hours!"
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Hey Texas isn't that flatland lol. Look up the hill country try and the wimberely area
 
What you're describing isn't unusual. I've known several experienced and competent pilots who, for whatever reason, suddenly get scared of flying. Some quit cold and sell their plane (I know one guy who has done that twice, but is flying again now), others just fly less and less and their plane sits. Sometimes it's caused by an accident. I have one friend who quit flying after a crash...he was miserable, and his wife finally saw how miserable he was and told him to start flying again, which he did. Sometimes it's caused by somebody else's accident... or watching too many youtube videos.

If you're worried about engine out landings, practice them. Or just practice landings, period. Nothing wrong with going to the airport and spending an hour just doing touch and goes, I do that all the time. Or returning from a local flight, do three landings instead of just one before putting the plane away. And remember that even if your engine does quit and you go down, your chances of walking away from it are good as long as you keep the airplane under control and don't stall/spin trying to stretch the glide or make the impossible turn.

Or is it risk vs. reward... ymmv, but if I owned a Cherokee I probably wouldn't fly it much, either, it's just not interesting enough for me to be worth the hassle. My biplane, OTOH, that's different.
 
Tampico Trauma said:
http://bush-air.com

Really damn close to you and comes with good recommendations.

I will be using him shortly.


Oh, and sell that Cherokee and buy a Maule.. you can do touch-and-gos in the wal mart parking lot.....

On the subject of the first post.... I'm up to 268hrs now and I still have moments of the same. My best friend is just over 100 hrs and has only flown five times since getting his PPL last June.

Same reasons.


What did it for me originally, was the asshat that turned his lance into a popsicle a little over a year ago and augered in ten miles from my house with his wife and kids on board.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I thought CC lived in the RSA?

Love to take his course, but I'd probably want to do it at his airport, 50% for education 50% for what I hear is best described as an experience.
 
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