Lost Comm IFR Altitude

FlyingMonkey

FlyingMonkey

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FlyingMonkey
Getting ready for IFR checkride.

I understand procedure for selecting an altitude if lost comm is the highest of the MEA, Assigned, or Expected. If the MEA is higher than assigned or expected altitude but is contrary to standard cruising altitude for direction of flight do you still fly at exactly the MEA? As an example, the MEA on the airway is 6000 feet but I'm traveling eastbound. Do I stay at 6k or fly 7k for easterly heading? Everything I have read implies 6k but I have never seen this issue directly addressed. Just want to double check.

Also, if the MEA is 6300 I understand I fly exactly 6300, right?
 
§91.179 IFR cruising altitude or flight level.​
(1) When operating below 18,000 feet MSL and—
(i) On a magnetic course of zero degrees through 179 degrees, any odd thousand foot MSL altitude (such as 3,000, 5,000, or 7,000); or
(ii) On a magnetic course of 180 degrees through 359 degrees, any even thousand foot MSL altitude (such as 2,000, 4,000, or 6,000).

§91.185 IFR operations: Two-way radio communications failure.​
(c) IFR conditions. If the failure occurs in IFR conditions, or if paragraph (b) of this section cannot be complied with, each pilot shall continue the flight according to the following:
(2) Altitude. At the highest of the following altitudes or flight levels for the route segment being flown:
(i) The altitude or flight level assigned in the last ATC clearance received;
(ii) The minimum altitude (converted, if appropriate, to minimum flight level as prescribed in §91.121(c)) for IFR operations; or
(iii) The altitude or flight level ATC has advised may be expected in a further clearance.

Following both 91.179 and 91.185 you should be at 7,000/9,000/11,000 because that's what you filed for, right? Your clearance should have included expect 7/9/11k x number of minutes
 
I will disagree here with EdFred for two reasons. First off 91.179(b) which is the part you posted starts off with In uncontrolled airspace. There's no reason why you can't file for, be cleared for, or told to expect an altitude that's not compliant with 91.179(b).

Second, you typically only file (and you only could file prior to the ICAO flight plan boondoggle) the initial cruise altitude. In this case the poster's hypothetical says his filed/cleared/expected altitude is less than the MEA for this segment. I would fly the MEA. The reg says nothing about even rounding it up to an even thousand, let alone adding some imagined correction for direction of flight.
 
Perhaps, but I know that even when I have been flying a 355 course on an even thousand clearance, and I had a 10 degree bend to the east on the airway ATC has asked me if I wanted to go up or down 1000 feet for "appropriate altitude". I've also purposefully filed the "wrong" altitude in class E, and gotten a revised altitude to put me at even/odd depending whether I was west/east respectively. It seems ATC always wants us odd/east and even/west even in controlled airspace - and I don't blame them. Much easier for separation. I'd go to 7,000 in the OP's case, but then again, that's what I would have filed for. (Though most likely 9, since I'm eastbound, and the winds are probably better)
 
EdFred said:
Perhaps, but I know that even when I have been flying a 355 course on an even thousand clearance, and I had a 10 degree bend to the east on the airway ATC has asked me if I wanted to go up or down 1000 feet for "appropriate altitude". I've also purposefully filed the "wrong" altitude in class E, and gotten a revised altitude to put me at even/odd depending whether I was west/east respectively. It seems ATC always wants us odd/east and even/west even in controlled airspace - and I don't blame them. Much easier for separation. I'd go to 7,000 in the OP's case, but then again, that's what I would have filed for. (Though most likely 9, since I'm eastbound, and the winds are probably better)
Click to expand...
The reg has a hemispheric rule for uncontrolled airspace, in controlled airspace the requirement is an altitude assigned by ATC, but the rule for ATC assignment of altitude also has a hemispheric rule. There are, however, many exceptions to the rule.
 
Still, the regs don't say round to the nearest appropriate thousand (whatever that may be) or even to the nearest thousand. If the MEA is 6300' and higher than my cleared/filed/expected altitude, I'm flying 6300'.

As Steve points out, ATC has their own idea of picking cruise altitudes. A common exception to the east-is-odd rule is down in Florida where they use a N/S rather than E/W division.
 
flyingron said:
Still, the regs don't say round to the nearest appropriate thousand (whatever that may be) or even to the nearest thousand. If the MEA is 6300' and higher than my cleared/filed/expected altitude, I'm flying 6300'.

As Steve points out, ATC has their own idea of picking cruise altitudes. A common exception to the east-is-odd rule is down in Florida where they use a N/S rather than E/W division.
Click to expand...

Ah, I never file for lower than an MEA. I always file for the rounded-up-to-the-next-appropriate-1000-over-the-MEA. So my filed/expected will always be above the MEA - or at least it always has been so far. Although the one time I did have to go 7600 while in the goo, I knew where the bottoms were, descended out of of IMC, and headed straight to the closest airport with tickmarks around the circle on the chart because I was not about to fly for the next 3.5 hours incommunicado.

There's what the book says, and what actually happens in reality. ZTL was happy about it, and even amended my strip in the system in case a quick relaunch was to happen.
 
You fly in a flat area I guess. My filed initial altitude is typically not what the MEA stays for when I'm heading west. I usually get better winds staying low until the MEAs (or whatever other minimum IFR altitude applies) force me higher. Coming with a tailwind, I'll likely make a nice climb to the an the higher altitude.

But FlyingMonkey is taking his checkride, and he needs to give the CORRECT answer rather than inventing some "done in practice" method. The checkride answer is ATC assumes you follow 91.185 to the letter. The proper answer is that ATC expects that but they generally have to be prepared for people doing what they don't expect.
 
I can't find anything about adjusting the MEA altitude for direction of flight in lost comm procedures. Every single example I come across in textbooks or references online shows choosing exactly the MEA altitude, regardless of direction of flight or not being a clean thousands number.

I doubt this very fine point will come up on the checkride but it is possible and should this ever happen to me I want to know what the right thing to do is. I guess I would just fly the MEA but I suppose I'd be flying it white knuckled worrying about oncoming traffic if going the "wrong direction" for a particular altitude on an airway.
Also, §91.121(c) references altitude adjustments for low pressure altimeter settings. I haven't come across this at all in my training or learning materials and yet there it is in the FARs...You learn a lot by just reading the FARs!
 
Well, I think the assumption is that there won't be two simultaneous comms failures on the same airway.

You're in IMC, and the other guy can be steered around or above you. Even if the MEA is 8000 and you're flying eastbound.

If you're in VMC, there isn't a problem.
 
I'm with Ron. If the MEA is the highest altitude of the 3 for that route seg, then I'm flying the MEA as depicted on the airway regardless of the direction of flight.

FWIW, I routinely get assigned enroute altitudes due to traffic or to avoid weather that violates the hemisphere rule.
 
Thanks for the replies. Everything I can find says to fly the exact MEA altitude. That's what I'm going with if/when it happens to me.

And by the way, I just passed my Instrument Checkride a few days ago!
 
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