Looking for right seat in Multi

LDJones said:
:yeahthat: Exactly. In reality, it's exhibiting a form of protectionism. "I'm in, now, so YOU shouldn't do anything that could possibly affect ME, even if it helps you get to where I am." Or, if maybe it's just "If I can keep YOU out that makes ME more valuable!" In either case, it stinks.

I feel sorry for the OP who just wanted to get hooked up for some multi time.
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I'm not trying to keep anyone DOWN. I'm for NOT keeping pilots down with the negative pressures of free labor. How you turn that around is beyond me. Like somehow some guy with 7 hours threatens MY job. Retarded premise. Obviously to anyone with just a few synopsis that I'm fighting for others trying to make a living.
 
Captain said:
Working on your own house is specifically allowed. You working on a neighbors house isn't. You 'helping' a neighbor is a grey area but I doubt anyone would ever pursue it without a complaint.

A commercial pilot flying for free sorta defeats the point of being a commercial pilot. No compensation or hire for a license that is specifically designed for just that. But you got it figured out. I have no idea what you do for a living but I can only imagine how you'd feel about a bunch of folks willing to do it for free.
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What if a licensed professional plumber helps his neighbor install the faucet for free? More "cheapening of the profession?" Why would a commercial pilot be any different? :dunno:

I've worked in professions that other people do for free. I put myself through college and law school doing photography...am pretty good at it. But there are a LOT of people doing it for free or next to free. Big deal. If I couldn't distinguish myself as better maybe I didn't deserve preferential treatment.

I'm also a lawyer. People do wills on-line and via software all the time. Others pay me to do theirs....different levels of service. I don't spend one minute lobbying to outlaw will preparation software or prohibiting people from using it.

And now I fly Part 121 jets around the country. It's an absolute hoot! I almost can't believe they pay me to do it, but they do. Who knew?!

My standard response to whiners in this industry is: "You should be sentenced to 90 days in a corporate cubicle for complaining about your job."
 
LDJones said:
Who the heck are YOU to tell ANYONE what they can or can't do for free?? What hubris!!!
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I haven't told anyone to do anything ding a ling. This is a moral discussion...one where you're on the side of cheapening the profession. Should've known you're a lawyer. Pfft
 
Captain said:
I haven't told anyone to do anything ding a ling. This is a moral discussion...one where you're on the side of cheapening the profession. Should've known you're a lawyer. Pfft
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No, you've been telling the OP what he shouldn't do.

And not just a lawyer....a Pilot Lawyer! :goofy:
 
LDJones said:
No, you've been telling the OP what he shouldn't do.

And not just a lawyer....a Pilot Lawyer! :goofy:
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No, I've been telling a forum what I think commercial pilots in general shouldn't do...screw their colleagues. See, I live in a world where I think we should look out for more than our simple self interests. I believe we all succeed when we work as a group instead of the Gen Y mentality of ME ME ME.

I believe the needs of the group should be considered against the needs of the individual. Sure, the OP flying for free will probably get him a few hours and better his life. But at what cost? Is he providing a service? If the answer is yes then he should be paid. If the answer is no then maybe he shouldn't be logging it or at least paying for it.

I get the lawyer whose just happy to be in the air thinks flying is a privilege and pilots are greedy to expect money. But guess how I feel about f'ing lawyers jacking up the very fabric of what's decent in the world.
 
I haven't read any of your posts, but you guys sure seem to be going at it.

Is the topic really that serious?
 
Go easy Cap. His free time will be offset by my decision to not fly for a living due to BS like you've been spewing.

Im a software engineer. There are high school kids building apps and wesites for free at an alarming rate. THEYRE STEALING MY MONEY. And get this, I have to compete against anyone in the world with an Internet connection and a little motivation.

PLUS the federal government takes my tax dollars and trains my competition in other countries via the USAID program so that companies can outsource my skill set.

Stick to flying and pay those due. You're head would explode if you had to compete in my field. I believe my company received 300,000 resumes last year.

And get this, I build, host and maintain a dozen websites FOR FREE. Costs me about $500 per year to do so. Im a thief.
 
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Captain said:
No, I've been telling a forum what I think commercial pilots in general shouldn't do...screw their colleagues. See, I live in a world where I think we should look out for more than our simple self interests. I believe we all succeed when we work as a group instead of the Gen Y mentality of ME ME ME.

I believe the needs of the group should be considered against the needs of the individual. Sure, the OP flying for free will probably get him a few hours and better his life. But at what cost? Is he providing a service? If the answer is yes then he should be paid. If the answer is no then maybe he shouldn't be logging it or at least paying for it.

I get the lawyer whose just happy to be in the air thinks flying is a privilege and pilots are greedy to expect money. But guess how I feel about f'ing lawyers jacking up the very fabric of what's decent in the world.
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I give you credit for consistency. You're a consistent Liberal collectivist who thinks socialistic ideals work. I get it. It just always fails in the real world.

I believe that people looking after their own self-interests ultimately works for the benefit of all. Motivating people to be the best they can and rewarding them for THEIR effort ultimately achieves the greatest good for all. Nobody "deserves" anything for a particular status. They can earn as much as they want if you can keep meddling third-parties from getting involved. If you're being paid less than you're worth I think you might want to rethink the actual value of what you do. Free markets are amazingly efficient at determining worth when allowed to work.

I'd also argue that Lib ideals and policies have done far more to "jack up the very fabric of what's decent" than lawyers ever will, although I will admit some of those Leftists who really jacked things up were lawyers. But we'll leave that for the Spin Zone.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
I haven't read any of your posts, but you guys sure seem to be going at it.

Is the topic really that serious?
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Ehhhh...

One side claiming doing stuff for free is a race to the bottom; the other side saying it's a person's right to dream and if you want to defend your economic position you should differentiate yourself and prove you're worth the money- day in and day out.

No change in 2 pages.
 
LDJones said:
I give you credit for consistency. You're a consistent Liberal collectivist who thinks socialistic ideals work. I get it. It just always fails in the real world.

I believe that people looking after their own self-interests ultimately works for the benefit of all. Motivating people to be the best they can and rewarding them for THEIR effort ultimately achieves the greatest good for all. Nobody "deserves" anything for a particular status. They can earn as much as they want if you can keep meddling third-parties from getting involved. If you're being paid less than you're worth I think you might want to rethink the actual value of what you do. Free markets are amazingly efficient at determining worth when allowed to work.

I'd also argue that Lib ideals and policies have done far more to "jack up the very fabric of what's decent" than lawyers ever will, although I will admit some of those Leftists who really jacked things up were lawyers. But we'll leave that for the Spin Zone.
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The system is what it is. All the carriers are unionized. Experience DOES NOT port to a new job. You start at the bottom at every single US carrier. So, that's the reality of it. What do you suggest? Maybe I should just revamp US aviation and impose a national seniority list? Maybe every pilot should freelance...let the market decide. Maybe we should all fly for free?
 
OTOH-

If anybody *does* have a lead on an empty right seat (or any seat!) In a multi or other cool plane near SoCal- hook me up, please! I don't care about logging, I just like to fly cool planes.:yes:
 
warthog1984 said:
OTOH-

If anybody *does* have a lead on an empty right seat (or any seat!) In a multi or other cool plane near SoCal- hook me up, please! I don't care about logging, I just like to fly cool planes.:yes:
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Whore!


Just kidding...really.
 
Captain said:
The system is what it is. All the carriers are unionized. Experience DOES NOT port to a new job. You start at the bottom at every single US carrier. So, that's the reality of it. What do you suggest? Maybe I should just revamp US aviation and impose a national seniority list? Maybe every pilot should freelance...let the market decide. Maybe we should all fly for free?
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Thank your Unions for what you have. Maybe true "professionals" don't unionize. You won't find a doctors union or lawyers union. Maybe that's at the root of the problem? :dunno:

And no one expect those professionals to work for free. Why would we expect pilots to do so?
 
BTW, this is fun but I need to call it a night. I have a jet full of people that want to go to ATL at 7 am and I'm flying them there....and not for free! :D (But I am reasonable!)
 
Captain said:
The system is what it is. All the carriers are unionized. Experience DOES NOT port to a new job. You start at the bottom at every single US carrier. So, that's the reality of it. What do you suggest? Maybe I should just revamp US aviation and impose a national seniority list? Maybe every pilot should freelance...let the market decide. Maybe we should all fly for free?
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Not all carriers are unionized. In fact, the Mormon Air Force he so happily flies for isn't, which, IMO, is a big reason they operate the way they do.
 
1) this would be a "filler" for the right seat. It is NOT taking a job from anybody. The seat would normally go empty.

2) I had 14.1 hours in my logbook that I flew for free back in the '80's. I deleted those hours when I interviewed at my airline. I wanted nothing questionable about logging PIC on empty 135 legs when I wasn't truly the PIC.

3) Clearly... So what?? People do things free or cheap in their profession all the time in order to gain experience. Should a first year physician demand top pay so they don't cheapen the profession? A free market (which I support) works both directions.
 
Kritchlow said:
1) this would be a "filler" for the right seat. It is NOT taking a job from anybody. The seat would normally go empty.

2) I had 14.1 hours in my logbook that I flew for free back in the '80's. I deleted those hours when I interviewed at my airline. I wanted nothing questionable about logging PIC on empty 135 legs when I wasn't truly the PIC.

3) Clearly... So what?? People do things free or cheap in their profession all the time in order to gain experience. Should a first year physician demand top pay so they don't cheapen the profession? A free market (which I support) works both directions.
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Who said top pay? I never said a CFI or banner tower should make B777 20 year captain pay. Why do I have to defend what I never said?

A 1st year physician should make starting physician wages...but I'm guessing it's north of ZERO.
 
Captain said:
The system is what it is. All the carriers are unionized. Experience DOES NOT port to a new job. You start at the bottom at every single US carrier. So, that's the reality of it. What do you suggest? Maybe I should just revamp US aviation and impose a national seniority list? Maybe every pilot should freelance...let the market decide. Maybe we should all fly for free?
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Nah... You do NOT start at the bottom in a conventional sense. A brand new shiny FO in day 1 of IOE has as much input as the FO who has been there 15 years. Yes, they start over when it comes to schedules, vacations, based, etc.. But NOT input into aircraft operations. Of course that assumes the airline practiced proper CRM. I know the Captain has final authority, but I have yet to meet one that doesn't take FO input VERY SERIOUSLY, regardless of seniority number.
 
Captain said:
The system is what it is. All the carriers are unionized. Experience DOES NOT port to a new job. You start at the bottom at every single US carrier. So, that's the reality of it. What do you suggest? Maybe I should just revamp US aviation and impose a national seniority list? Maybe every pilot should freelance...let the market decide. Maybe we should all fly for free?
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What does this have to do with the OP's situation or request?
 
BTW, if the seat would normally go empty then how, pray tell, is the 'pilot' logging it?
 
Captain said:
BTW, if the seat would normally go empty then how, pray tell, is the 'pilot' logging it?
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You may need to check Ed Freds chart for that one, but I'll guess the empty legs if it's dispatched 135.
 
Kritchlow said:
Nah... You do NOT start at the bottom in a conventional sense. A brand new shiny FO in day 1 of IOE has as much input as the FO who has been there 15 years. Yes, they start over when it comes to schedules, vacations, based, etc.. But NOT input into aircraft operations. Of course that assumes the airline practiced proper CRM. I know the Captain has final authority, but I have yet to meet one that doesn't take FO input VERY SERIOUSLY, regardless of seniority number.
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This thread isn't about CRM or feeling valued. This is about PAY.
 
Everskyward said:
Right, and you're trying to dictate what other people ask for. You're not their union boss.
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Again...I'm not telling anyone what to do or not to do. This is an Internet forum where we discuss ideas. My ideas are just that.
 
Captain said:
Part 135 operates under OpSpecs and I'm not aware of any OpSpecs that allows a non-qualified pilot to fly the empty legs.
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I flew 135 for roughly 27 years prior to 121.

The revenue leg out can be dispatched 135, while the empty repo flight can be dispatched 91.
 
Kritchlow said:
You may need to check Ed Freds chart for that one, but I'll guess the empty legs if it's dispatched 135.
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Kritchlow said:
I flew 135 for roughly 27 years prior to 121.

The revenue leg out can be dispatched 135, while the empty repo flight can be dispatched 91.
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What is it with you people???

Dispatched part 91 IS NOT the same as "if it's dispatched 135".
 
Captain said:
What is it with you people???

Dispatched part 91 IS NOT the same as "if it's dispatched 135".
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Don't understand your question. They can log the 91 portion if manipulator of controls. Am I missing something?
 
Do you not see your quote above? First you clearly say "dispatched 135". I say that can't be done and you reply "yes it can...if it's part 91!".

Part 91 is not part 135. I'm getting tired of these arguments where people grossly move the goal posts to a tennis court.
 
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I swear that this is anyone in this thread waiting for the other to respond.

I'm not sure if it's the beer or not, but I'm having a good laugh over it all.

Edit: I just recently passed 2,000 useless posts! Woohoo!
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
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I swear that this is anyone in this thread waiting for the other to respond.

I'm not sure if it's the beer or not, but I'm having a good laugh over it all.

Edit: I just recently passed 2,000 useless posts! Woohoo!
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Congrats! But were you paid for all of those or did you do them for free??! :D
 
Captain said:
Do you not see your quote above? First you clearly say "dispatched 135". I say that can't be done and you reply "yes it can...if it's part 91!".

Part 91 is not part 135. I'm getting tired of these arguments where people grossly move the goal posts to a tennis court.
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It's possible I made a typo. I'll go check it out. Point is one direction, the revenue direction with passengers, is dispatched 135. The repositioning empty flight after dropping them off, is dispatched 91.

Again, I'll revue in case of typo. Wouldn't be the first...
 
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