Looking at buying a plane a long way from me, quesions

[Skylane81E]

Many will tell you that a ground run-up will not get the oil hot enough to boil out the accumulated water (condensed from combustion gas blow-by - even on a new engine). Therefore what the owner has done was at best, not helpful.

-Skip

Yep, odds are he made it worse, MUCH worse by running it.

 

[wabower]

Scope of work for pre-buy will address shop's duties to include that they will inspect it, reassemble it, push it across the rails and provide both buyer and seller with a list. The shop will never have the original logs, so there will be no rogue entry.

Nope, what happens when you decide to walk, can the owner then get a ferry permit to get it home?

Any A&P can sign the ferry permit, then A&P-IA at the next airport over finds a safety of flight issue and drops a bomb in the log book ,,,,, now what?

or

they spread the aircraft all over the hangar and refuse to put it back together again until you fix all these discrepancies?

How would you like to be the seller under these circumstances ??????

 

[Henning]

Scope of work for pre-buy will address shop's duties to include that they will inspect it, reassemble it, push it across the rails and provide both buyer and seller with a list. The shop will never have the original logs, so there will be no rogue entry.

Exactly, since when does a 'prebuy' go in the logs? Even if the logs get inspected they don't get altered.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Exactly, since when does a 'prebuy' go in the logs? Even if the logs get inspected they don't get altered.

If a "prebuy" is done, and anything was disassembled and reassembled there should be a log entry. If it was the typical "walk around and look" prebuy, then not necessary.

 

[Tom-D]

If a "prebuy" is done, and anything was disassembled and reassembled there should be a log entry. If it was the typical "walk around and look" prebuy, then not necessary.

Inspections are maintenance..

 

[wabower]

No question, but provided to owner on a sticker along with the list of discrepancies in order to preserve a level playing field. I can't remember any such shop visits during which a paper oil filter was not removed, cut for inspection, replaced with new and duly recorded in a log
entry.

If a "prebuy" is done, and anything was disassembled and reassembled there should be a log entry. If it was the typical "walk around and look" prebuy, then not necessary.

 

[Tom-D]

Is a pre buy really an inspection?

will 43.9 or 43.11 apply?

 

[wabower]

Who cares other than mechanics who have nothing better to do than argue about minutae?

Is a pre buy really an inspection?

will 43.9 or 43.11 apply?

 

[Tom-D]

Who cares other than mechanics who have nothing better to do than argue about minutae?

A seller would, seeing as a pre buy is not an inspection required by FAR 91, would you want it logged as such?

or would you want the maintenance completed logged as required under 43.9 ?

What's in your maintenance records reflects the value of your aircraft.

 

[wabower]

You don't understand. The logs are in a fire-safe where they stay unless I need them. Nothing is entered in them that I don't want there until I'm sure about the content. I am responsible for the maintenance of the aircraft and therefore control the entries.

A seller would, seeing as a pre buy is not an inspection required by FAR 91, would you want it logged as such?

or would you want the maintenance completed logged as required under 43.9 ?

What's in your maintenance records reflects the value of your aircraft.

 

[kgruber]

The 77 hour engine after sitting for two years if it wasn't put into storage properly, may not be a 77 hour engine anymore.

Especially if the owner came down and ran it a few times in the warm weather.

NOTHING worse for the engine. Should have been properly pickled.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Especially if the owner came down and ran it a few times in the warm weather.

NOTHING worse for the engine. Should have been properly pickled.

Sad thing is SO many people do just that.

I looked into an airplane ad this week. Estate sale. Airplane was advertised as 'in good flying condition'.

When I enquired about when the last annual was done, the guy told me that it hasn't been inspected or flown in over two years, but he has periodically gone out to the airport to run the engine.

Yeah....I'll pass.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Tom-D]

You don't understand. The logs are in a fire-safe where they stay unless I need them. Nothing is entered in them that I don't want there until I'm sure about the content. I am responsible for the maintenance of the aircraft and therefore control the entries.

I do understand what happens in most cases, the owner /seller hands over the logs and waits to see what the inspector enters in them. bag bad bad!

But you are closer to safe than most.

I get to clean up the messes that these situations create, require the inspector/A&P to enter only what they did, as Rotor posted. If there was no maintenance as defined in FAR 1.1 there is no entry. if your filter is an example, that gets entered.

You control your logs, fine, but you are also required to get the entries. so you should know what the entries should look like, verbiage used, and which log book the entries go in.

 

[wabower]

I don't pretend to have all the answers but sleep better with the knowledge that nothing is in the books until my MX guy approves the entry. And like some of your customers I learned that lesson the hard way.

You control your logs, fine, but you are also required to get the entries. so you should know what the entries should look like, verbiage used, and which log book the entries go in.

 

[Tom-D]

I don't pretend to have all the answers but sleep better with the knowledge that nothing is in the books until my MX guy approves the entry. And like some of your customers I learned that lesson the hard way.

I'm setting here this morning looking at a set of logs with a Annual sign off for an engine in the airframe log book, and an annual sign off for the airframe in the engine log.

this is the reality of the real world of maintenance records.

each and every seinor airman has the responsibility to teach the correct method of airmanship, and this area has been sorrily neglected.

 

[Skylane81E]

I'm setting here this morning looking at a set of logs with a Annual sign off for an engine in the airframe log book, and an annual sign off for the airframe in the engine log.

this is the reality of the real world of maintenance records.

each and every seinor airman has the responsibility to teach the correct method of airmanship, and this area has been sorrily neglected.

I wish I could say I've never done that, but I have.

Nice sharpie X and correct entry pasted in next to it.

 

[wabower]

My appraisal notes usually include a reference to several such mis-licks, depending on the age of the airplane. It's even more common with engine and prop entries.

I wish I could say I've never done that, but I have.

Nice sharpie X and correct entry pasted in next to it.

 

[Tom-D]

Sad thing is SO many people do just that.

I run the Warner for about 10 minutes a month, to scavenge the oil back to the tank. or it starts to leak because the engine is too full of oil.

Yeah, I know I need to fix that but it requires I pull the oil pump again.