Log Book Question

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ferrari-tech

Pre-takeoff checklist
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ferrari-tech
As a new pilot, I enjoy filling out my log book myself, but now I have a question.

Obviously the best part to fill out is the "PIC", because that's now most defiantly me :D.

My question is what about the "solo" section, is that only for when you are physically the only person in the plane, or does it refer to weather you have an instructor with you.

Since I past my check ride, I have flown 3 times, once on my own, I just popped over to Van Nuys to practice landings, ( I'm renting out of whiteman now) and twice with a friend.

Are the flights with friends solo ??

Thx
 
ferrari-tech said:
As a new pilot, I enjoy filling out my log book myself, but now I have a question[...] Are the flights with friends solo[?]
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Congratulations and welcome!

It's a good idea to periodically review the CFRs and AIM to keep the information fresh in your mind. You don't have to memorize all the trivia, but it's helpful to be able to know where to quickly look for the information you need. Information passed along by other pilots is sometimes inaccurate, and your responsibility as PIC is to verify everything for yourself.

§61.51(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft.​

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfrv2_02.tpl

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/aim.pdf
 
Note that "sole occupant" in this context really means "sole, living, human occupant." Babies count against solo, but dogs and corpses do not.
 
Ron Levy said:
Note that "sole occupant" in this context really means "sole, living, human occupant." Babies count against solo, but dogs and corpses do not.
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Can you cite Chief Counsel opinion on that? :D:yikes:
 
I don't think "solo" time has any relevance once you have your license in hand.

So, most pilots just list PIC time, and that's all that I've ever been asked about on applications and resumes and the like.
 
FastEddieB said:
I don't think "solo" time has any relevance once you have your license in hand.

So, most pilots just list PIC time, and that's all that I've ever been asked about on applications and resumes and the like.
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There are a couple of regs that require solo for higher ratings...commercial XC IIRC.
 
JeffDG said:
There are a couple of regs that require solo for higher ratings...commercial XC IIRC.
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Jeff is correct. See 61.129(a)(4) for the solo requirements for CP-ASEL (and the subsequent paragraphs for other categories/classes). Has to be logged as solo to count, and has to be sole, living, human occupant to be logged legally.
 
i thought for the commercial XC you can go with an instructor but you are acting as PIC?
Ron Levy said:
Jeff is correct. See 61.129(a)(4) for the solo requirements for CP-ASEL (and the subsequent paragraphs for other categories/classes). Has to be logged as solo to count, and has to be sole, living, human occupant to be logged legally.
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acrophile said:
Congratulations and welcome!

It's a good idea to periodically review the CFRs and AIM to keep the information fresh in your mind. You don't have to memorize all the trivia, but it's helpful to be able to know where to quickly look for the information you need. Information passed along by other pilots is sometimes inaccurate, and your responsibility as PIC is to verify everything for yourself.
§61.51(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft.
​
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfrv2_02.tpl

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/aim.pdf
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That's what I thought but wanted to confirm... thx

Ron Levy said:
Babies count against solo, but dogs and corpses do not.
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I'm done with babies for now (unless Kate Upton comes calling), and although some of my friends seem lifeless at times I do believe most of them still have a pulse:yesnod::yes:
 
jordane93 said:
i thought for the commercial XC you can go with an instructor but you are acting as PIC?
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Yes, 61.129 did change recently to allow that.

But, if you were to do the flights solo anyway, you'd want to log it that way if for no other reason than you wouldn't have the repeat them. Remember, the "solo" requirements of the Commercial don't have to be done during a course of training - if you took a solo flight to visit grandma and it met the requirements, it counts.
 
FastEddieB said:
Hmmm...

...so when they ask for "souls on board", are they assuming that dogs do NOT have souls?

Based on what???
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Based on the definition of "Soul" by Dictionary.com dogs are not even considered.


soul

/soʊl/ http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.htmlShow Spelled [sohl] http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.htmlShow IPA
noun 1. the principle of life, feeling, thought, and action in humans, regarded as a distinct entity separate from the body, and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; the spiritual part of humans as distinct from the physical part.

2. the spiritual part of humans regarded in its moral aspect, or as believed to survive death and be subject to happiness or misery in a life to come: arguing the immortality of the soul.

3. the disembodied spirit of a deceased person: He feared the soul of the deceased would haunt him.

4. the emotional part of human nature; the seat of the feelings or sentiments.

5. a human being; person.


Sorry to burst your bubble :rofl:
 
One thing I've failed to mention that I always need to make clear when dealing with the solo logging threads:

For the love of God, never log "Solo" and "Mile High Club" on the same flight in your logbook.
 
FastEddieB said:
Hmmm...

...so when they ask for "souls on board", are they assuming that dogs do NOT have souls?

Based on what???
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So was I also wrong in counting my ginger friend when I reported "souls on board" on my flight plan??? :D

FastEddieB said:
IIRC, I use the same column in my logbook for solo/PIC.
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My logbook (Cessna KC-101) only has one column labeled "Solo or PIC." For those isolated flights past Pvt requiring solo, I'd just make a note about that, but log it the same in "Solo or PIC" as with any other flight with pax...

JeffDG said:
...For the love of God, never log "Solo" and "Mile High Club" on the same flight in your logbook.
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:rofl: Wait...

Brb, I have to go edit my logbook... :sigh:
 
jordane93 said:
i thought for the commercial XC you can go with an instructor but you are acting as PIC?
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That is close. You can, instead of flying solo, fly with an instructor who observes while you perform all the duties of PIC (although you need not act as PIC). The instructor makes an appropriate entry in your log and signs it. However, that is not "solo" time in your logbook and cannot be counted as such for any other purpose, and you cannot do this with, say, your friends instead of an instructor.
 
FastEddieB said:
IIRC, I use the same column in my logbook for solo/PIC.
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You can do that if you like, but if the issue ever arises (say, if the FAA is questioning you over whether or not 61.57's landing currencies apply to a flight), remember that while all solo is PIC, not all PIC is solo. That is why this ATP with 10,000 hours still keeps them in separate columns.
 
Ron Levy said:
If you consider 16 years ago to be "recently" -- depends on your perspective.
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It's been that way for multiengine since 1997, but I'm reasonably sure for single-engine it's only been that way since 2009, at least if I'm using the historical FAR website and my memory correctly.

It seemed likely that jordane93 wasn't discussing solo AMEL practice.
 
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JeffDG said:
There are a couple of regs that require solo for higher ratings...commercial XC IIRC.
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So, if I want to plan a 200 nm xc and don't feel like flying alone, it won't count? Even if other person is non-pilot and is there just for the company?
 
Meanee said:
So, if I want to plan a 200 nm xc and don't feel like flying alone, it won't count? Even if other person is non-pilot and is there just for the company?
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As §61.129 is worded, you can bring friends along for your Commercial long x-c if you also have a CFI on board and you're performing the duties of PIC. (Your FSDO might not agree, but that's what the regulation says.)
 
JeffDG said:
For the love of God, never log "Solo" and "Mile High Club" on the same flight in your logbook.
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I was well over 5,280', solo, when I created this mess:

10441025274_eb25bf8575_z.jpg
 
FastEddieB said:
Hmmm...

...so when they ask for "souls on board", are they assuming that dogs do NOT have souls?

Based on what???
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They want to know souls onboard so they can tell crash rescue how many to look for.

The planes burning and they've pulled out two. If they know there were three onboard they will go back and get the third. They are NOT going to risk their lives to go back in to look for a dog, cat, hamster, ect...

That's the way I understand it.
 
Meanee said:
So, if I want to plan a 200 nm xc and don't feel like flying alone, it won't count? Even if other person is non-pilot and is there just for the company?
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Greg Bockelman said:
Yup. That is the way the reg reads.
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If we're talking about the CP-ASEL "long solo XC", then it wouldn't count anyway because it's not long enough.
 
RussR said:
If we're talking about the CP-ASEL "long solo XC", then it wouldn't count anyway because it's not long enough.
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Not for long solo XC. Just towards XC. Pointing out that it will be a fairly boring flight, and more or less pointless once you get to your destination.
 
acrophile said:
As §61.129 is worded, you can bring friends along for your Commercial long x-c if you also have a CFI on board and you're performing the duties of PIC. (Your FSDO might not agree, but that's what the regulation says.)
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As long as the CFI signs the log entry essentially saying you did it all on your own without any assistance, it counts. Your non-CFI pals are not authorized to make that attestation.
 
Captain said:
They want to know souls onboard so they can tell crash rescue how many to look for.

The planes burning and they've pulled out two. If they know there were three onboard they will go back and get the third. They are NOT going to risk their lives to go back in to look for a dog, cat, hamster, ect...

That's the way I understand it.
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Someone mis-explained it to you. The reason is so they can tell if it was a fatal accident or not. "Fatal accident" only covers humans, so the want to know if corpses or non-humans are aboard so they don't create a reality of the old joke about the crash of a Cessna 150 in Texas A&M's cemetery ("Aggie officials say the death toll has passed 100 and they're still digging up bodies."). If you are carrying nonhumans or corpses, you should note that in the Remarks block.
 
Meanee said:
Not for long solo XC. Just towards XC.
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There is no "just plain XC" requirement for CP-ASEL. There are some dual XC requirements, and some XC PIC requirements, and some solo (or "simulated solo") XC requirements. The first two allow passengers; the last does not unless one of them is a CFI signing your log that it was "simulated solo" per 61.129(a)(4).
 
hey ron, just a little off topic but im starting commercial training soon and i was wondrring if the x countries could be counted for commercial while i was doing my instrument and private training
Ron Levy said:
There is no "just plain XC" requirement for CP-ASEL. There are some dual XC requirements, and some XC PIC requirements, and some solo (or "simulated solo") XC requirements. The first two allow passengers; the last does not unless one of them is a CFI signing your log that it was "simulated solo" per 61.129(a)(4).
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jordane93 said:
hey ron, just a little off topic but im starting commercial training soon and i was wondrring if the x countries could be counted for commercial while i was doing my instrument and private training
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Instrument, yes; Private, no. The only exception to this would be if you completed your Pvt-required dual XC's and then, before taking the PP practical test, you and your instructor did dual XC's which s/he specifically logged as meeting the 61.129 requirements.
 
Ron Levy said:
Instrument, yes; Private, no. The only exception to this would be if you completed your Pvt-required dual XC's and then, before taking the PP practical test, you and your instructor did dual XC's which s/he specifically logged as meeting the 61.129 requirements.
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Your private-trainee solo XCs count towards your XC-PIC stuff. And if you were to do a long XC solo, it should count to the commercial one (if long enough).
 
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