Linux conversion old XP laptop...

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Bell206

Final Approach
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Bell206
As I plan to switch to a Linux based laptop once my Windows 8.1 Pro sunsets in a few years, I though I'd start my Linux practice by converting an old Dell XPS with XP installed. My geek nephew will be helping with my future computer, but he just started a new IT job and thought I could try this part on my own.

Considering the XPS specs below, what version (distribution) of Linux would work best with this this laptop; and, is there a good tutorial out there on how to install Linux and remove the Windows OS?

OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Manufacturer Dell Inc.
System Model MXC051
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 6 Model 13 Stepping 8 GenuineIntel ~1729 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date Dell Inc. A03, 1/1/2006
SMBIOS Version 2.3
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.2562 (xpsp.040919-1030)"
Time Zone Central Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 2,048.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 1.58 GB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 3.84 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys
 
Single-core 32-bit Pentium M and 2 GB of RAM, huh?

Maybe Debian 32-bit. It's pretty efficient.

I suggest trying a live image first to see if it runs. The files on that page ending with .iso can be burned to a DVD or used to make a bootable USB that won't touch the installed system unless you want it to.

It will be slooooooow running on DVD or USB < 3.0, but at least you'll know whether it's worth installing. If it runs okay (other than being slooooooow), there should be a link or icon that says something along the lines of "Install to Hard Drive" that you can click, and it will guide you through the installation. Basically you want it to remove the installed OS and take over the whole disk.

Rich
 
I believe that any Ubuntu distro later than 14.04 requires a 64 bit processor. That said, it's no longer supported, but you can get archived support files that solve most issues. Ubuntu is great stuff, been using it for years now, and also keep an XP virtual machine for legacy programs. But be forewarned, no Linux distro is plug and play. As the saying goes, Ubuntu is only free if you don't value your time. Sharpen your Google fu, as support is, well, open source too.

14.04 will run fine on your machine. Rich makes a good suggestion, download a live boot and try it first.

Edit: I stand corrected. 16.04 has a 32 bit distro. That's the latest I would go, anything after that at 32 bit will be frustratingly slow. I'm using 16.10 on a 32bit machine, and it works fine,
 
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RJM62 said:
If it runs okay
Click to expand...
Went with the free live image with the LXDE GUI due to size and it seems to be functioning. At least after I remembered copying image files is different than other files o_O. I think I will go ahead and install it all the way but the Debian docs are a bit confusing on component drivers. If I read it correctly, I should be able to correct any issues with wifi, etc once I completely install Debian 10, however just looking for additional input before I jump off the cliff. Thanks again.
Chip Sylverne said:
I stand corrected. 16.04 has a 32 bit distro.
Click to expand...
I plan to experiment with various "distros" but had to start somewhere so went with the Debian suggestion above. Thanks.
 
I have no idea what distribution I used, but I was able to easily and successfully install Linux on an ancient Asus Eeee XP Netbook, as well as on an eMachines desktop from the early Win 7 years in a dual boot config (can choose Win 7 or Linux upon startup). Yes, you can dig deep into Linux if you want to, but I didn't find it any more difficult than installing any other operating system. I think you'll like it. If some of the software I use for music recording and writing (Samplitude and Sibelius) were available for Linux, I'd probably be typing on my last Windows machine right now. I've tried some of the open source alternatives for Linux, but they were either extremely complex to set up with outside gear (the audio recording programs) or extremely UNintuitive compared to Sibelius (at least for me). Other than that, I'm a big fan of Linux.
 
They all use the same kernel, same shells and similar packages so unless you have a specially tuned distro (e.g. Puppy) there isn't a huge difference from a performance standpoint. Sounds like you're a Linux newbie, so the most popular (Ubuntu) will probably give you the most help.
 
What specific WiFi device?

On a machine that old, I doubt there will be a problem. Finding drivers for bleeding-edge hardware is more of a problem than finding drivers for old hardware in Linux.

Rich
 
Don’t get the popular desktop managers (mate, gnome, etc), they will slow you down...Xfce is design for limited hardware. Obviously 32 bit. Also put “/home” on its own partition, makes upgrading/reinstalling easy, you don’t have to restore your files.


Tom
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Don’t get the popular desktop managers (mate, gnome, etc), they will slow you down...Xfce is design for limited hardware. Obviously 32 bit. Also put “/home” on its own partition, makes upgrading/reinstalling easy, you don’t have to restore your files.


Tom
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't know about that. Going from windows to a command- line only may induce catatonia. The Gnome desktop is pretty resource light. The newer Ubuntu automatically sets up the partitions so system files are separated. It does make systemupdates easy. Oh, that too. Once you get your system stable, don't just accept automatic updates, you never know what the update will break. BTDT. Make sure you have a good backup.

You also want to get familiar with package manager like apt-get, apt-get update etc. Will make your life much easier. Until you get used to it, file permissions may cost you a few grey hairs too.

Don't be surprised if your browser video drivers don't work. Because of legal issues, you may get a "mime not supported" message. You'll probably have to get 3rd party drivers. Don't despair, they're available in the legacy repositories.

Linux is terrific, but it takes some getting used to.

One last thought. If you use Chrome, it's not supported in 32bit, nor are Android Development Tools, though you can get a legacy version of ADT if you look hard enough.
 
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Chip Sylverne said:
Yeah, I don't know about that. Going from windows to a command- line only may induce catatonia. The Gnome desktop is pretty resource light.
Click to expand...

My old laptop would struggle with VLC and gnome. Xfce is not commandline, it’s just windows without all the animations, previews, etc


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
asicer said:
They all use the same kernel, same shells and similar packages so unless you have a specially tuned distro (e.g. Puppy) there isn't a huge difference from a performance standpoint. Sounds like you're a Linux newbie, so the most popular (Ubuntu) will probably give you the most help.
Click to expand...

32-bit Ubuntu is no longer supported.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
What specific WiFi device?
Click to expand...
After reading some more I'm not concerned about any driver. It looks like I can fix any issues. Once I install Debian 10 I plan to play/learn then look at some other distros provided this laptop can run them. I also have a Toshiba netbook I'd like to convert and make it a portable service manual collection. Right now the XPS is running better than expected via the live DVD image.
 
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asicer said:
you're a Linux newbie
Click to expand...
Only with installing it on my own computers. Been around it for years but never really had to work with it. Would have switched earlier but had various 3rd party requirements that needed a Windows platform.
 
Bell206 said:
After reading some more I'm not concerned about any driver. It looks like I can fix any issues. Once I install Nubian 10 I plan to play/learn then look at some other distros provided this laptop can run them. I also have a Toshiba netbook I'd like to convert and make it a portable service manual collection. Right now the XPS is running better than expected via the live DVD image.
Click to expand...

What is Nubian 10?

Rich
 
Part 2: With the XPS up and running on Debian 10, I thought I'd convert my other old computer: a Toshiba netbook. This one will be specifically used as a portable depository of PDF service/mx manuals of all colors and flavors. With such a limited requirement, I was looking at Puppy Linux and Tiny Core. Are there any pros/cons to either in this situation? Or a favorite? Below are the netbook specs. Thanks again for the input.

OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name TOSHIBA-USER
System Manufacturer TOSHIBA
System Model TOSHIBA NB305
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 6 Model 28 Stepping 10 GenuineIntel ~1662 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date TOSHIBA V1.40, 3/16/2010
SMBIOS Version 2.5
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2111)"
Time Zone Pacific Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 2,048.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 1.56 GB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.95 GB
Page File Space 3.84 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys
 
RJM62 said:
32-bit Ubuntu is no longer supported.
Click to expand...
Ubuntu 16.04.6 LTS is still supported.

Probably a moot point as it sounds like the OP is already on the Debian route.
 
asicer said:
Ubuntu 16.04.6 LTS is still supported.

Probably a moot point as it sounds like the OP is already on the Debian route.
Click to expand...


32 bit support desktop support went away with 17.10. I think 16.04 gets support until 2021. I made the mistake of upgrading from 16.04 to 16.10.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
32 bit support desktop support went away with 17.10. I think 16.04 gets support until 2021. I made the mistake of upgrading from 16.04 to 16.10.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you went with the mainline instead of LTS (Long Term Support).
 
asicer said:
Sounds like you went with the mainline instead of LTS (Long Term Support).
Click to expand...

I started with 14.04 LTS and when that went eol I hit an automatic update to 16.04, then foolishly updated again to a development package because I wanted some little thing that made absolutely no sense in hindsight. Did it without checking my backup for valid first (stupid, stupid, stupid) 16.10 broke just about everything including virtualbox, libs, the works. Fortunately it was just system stuff, all my data was OK. After a day or two of sorting it out and getting everything back stable, I decided never again to accept an update, just keep what I have until I upgrade the hardware to a 64 bit machine then go with 18.04 LTS. Live boot saved my sanity.
 
Bell206 said:
Part 2: With the XPS up and running on Debian 10, I thought I'd convert my other old computer: a Toshiba netbook. This one will be specifically used as a portable depository of PDF service/mx manuals of all colors and flavors. With such a limited requirement, I was looking at Puppy Linux and Tiny Core. Are there any pros/cons to either in this situation? Or a favorite? Below are the netbook specs. Thanks again for the input.

OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name TOSHIBA-USER
System Manufacturer TOSHIBA
System Model TOSHIBA NB305
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 6 Model 28 Stepping 10 GenuineIntel ~1662 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date TOSHIBA V1.40, 3/16/2010
SMBIOS Version 2.5
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2111)"
Time Zone Pacific Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 2,048.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 1.56 GB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.95 GB
Page File Space 3.84 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys
Click to expand...

I have no experience with Puppy or Tiny Core. But in the situation you describe, that would be enough reason for me to give them a try.

Rich
 
Bell206 said:
With such a limited requirement, I was looking at Puppy Linux and Tiny Core.
Click to expand...
You'll want more RAM. Default behavior is that Puppy copies the filesystem to ramdisk on startup and then commits the ramdisk to mass storage on shutdown. If you want a pagefile, you'll need to do a bit of hacking.
 
Just to update: after trying several different distros on the laptop and netbook, decided to use one version on both for commonality and went with the latest Puppy version, Bionic Pup as the netbook worked best with it. Now the fun of learning Linux begins. Thanks for all your help.
 
Linux used to be spectacular at supporting ancient hardware like that.

But once the security researchers pointed out the gaping holes on hundreds of 32-bit applications, most serious distros looked at their developers and realized nobody ever did anything other than cross compile to 32-bit and zero testing was being done, and nixed 32-bit support.

I wouldn’t really trust that the remaining niche distros for older hardware are really testing either. Browser support will continue to get worse also.

The 32/64 breakpoint is significant these days. It means you’ll be running very old untested or flat out vulnerable software. Just the way it is...

The hardware is plenty capable to do a lot of things, but the software makers are moving on.
 
denverpilot said:
Linux used to be spectacular at supporting ancient hardware like that.

But once the security researchers pointed out the gaping holes on hundreds of 32-bit applications, most serious distros looked at their developers and realized nobody ever did anything other than cross compile to 32-bit and zero testing was being done, and nixed 32-bit support.

I wouldn’t really trust that the remaining niche distros for older hardware are really testing either. Browser support will continue to get worse also.

The 32/64 breakpoint is significant these days. It means you’ll be running very old untested or flat out vulnerable software. Just the way it is...

The hardware is plenty capable to do a lot of things, but the software makers are moving on.
Click to expand...
What about the 32-bit version of Windows 10? The Microsoft Web site is still allowing installation media to be created for it. Do you see potential issues with that, other than crappy performance?
 
Palmpilot said:
What about the 32-bit version of Windows 10? The Microsoft Web site is still allowing installation media to be created for it. Do you see potential issues with that, other than crappy performance?
Click to expand...

No idea. That’s totally up to Microsoft and whatever they’re doing internally.

The open source stuff has been... well, open about the problems.

I haven’t seen any security research on the 32 bit Windows stuff specifically — but we don’t use any, so I haven’t looked for work. And I don’t use that at home.
 
I just went through this on my ancient Dell 32-bit laptop that I still use on occasion.

There are so few 32 bit distros left and the ones I tried crapped out during the install and I don't remember what is on it now.

I keep that C840 around because it has an actual serial port on it, but it has not seen much action lately because even with the added memory (4GB) and bigger HDD, I use USB>UART adapters for all my radio stuff.

Windows 10 32 bit on a computer with 2GB of RAM will not run worth a darn, if at all and the drivers will need to be loaded manually... Yuck.
 
IK04 said:
I just went through this on my ancient Dell 32-bit laptop that I still use on occasion.
Click to expand...

Yeah I learned of the mess when I went looking for a Linux distro to replace the WinXP on an ancient Thinkpad, thinking I would be all cool and Linuxy. LOL.

Same deal, it has a serial port and a nice docking station and of course built like a tank with one of the best laptop keyboards ever made... and virtually never on a network let alone surfing websites or anything on it...

But it’ll stay on XP forever at this point. If it works, don’t fix it.

But a lot of newer nicer hardware after that thing was made is also stuck in OS limbo. It’s too bad, really.

I stuck one of the niche distros on a machine that was in that newer era to run Home Assistant on until I had time to make a VM on the home Proxmox server and migrate it into there. The old hardware ran it fine but I just didn’t want a distro that sketchy under the hood. Even with all the HA stuff running in Docker.

Nothing wrong with the hardware at all. It’s sitting unused and headed for e-cycling now, I suppose. Smoked the stupid Raspberry Pis that were the recommended hardware.
 
IK04 said:
Windows 10 32 bit on a computer with 2GB of RAM will not run worth a darn, if at all and the drivers will need to be loaded manually... Yuck.
Click to expand...
A few years ago, I took advantage of the free Windows 10 offer to install the 32-bit version on a notebook that has only one GB of RAM, and it runs, but it is REEEAAALLLLY SLOOOOOOOOOW.
 
Linux is not an option. I run it a few times from a memory stick and abandoned it. It can not be compared to Windows.
 
I have a 32bit desktop on which I run Ubuntu 16.04, which is the last 32 bit LTS distro. With the GNU gui, I find it just as easy to run as windows, and I've always been able to find a Linux application solution for what I need to do. Nice that it's plug 'n play with my Android devices too. There's always the linux command line flexibility if needed. For older Windows applications, I spin up a VM under Virtualbox, both XP and 32 bit Windows 10. XP runs fine, sometimes 10 is slow. If I used the windows stuff more often, it'd probably be easier just to make an NTFS windows partition.
 
neon said:
Linux is not an option. I run it a few times from a memory stick and abandoned it. It can not be compared to Windows.
Click to expand...

Running anything from a memory stick sucks. Except maybe a screaming fast one in a USB3 port.

Linux is fine. Comparisons are fairly useless. They’re each their own thing.
 
I tossed all my old laptops. You can buy for under $300 a better laptop than those. Actually, for most of my applications I just use a raspberry pi now. Less than $20 and runs a linux variant that works for most mindless apps.
 
Actually, my post-Lenovo thinkpad was my goto thing for network debugging until recently, but you can decry the "quality" of things, but the $299 HP special from Walmart is an order of magnitude faster, 1000x more storage, and a better display than your antique. There's not much point building things to last 20 years when no matter what they do, they'll be obsolete in five.
 
I bought one of those sub-$300 Dells from Walmart, just to rub it in the face of my wife and kids. They all made me buy them $1500 HP laptops that do little more than my cheapo Dell.

I replaced the 1GB spinny drive with a SSD and reloaded Win10 and Linux from scratch and it performs great. I run all my digital radio stuff on it.

Don't get me started on the update hell I've been through with Win10 though.... :mad::mad:
 
denverpilot said:
Running anything from a memory stick sucks. Except maybe a screaming fast one in a USB3 port.
Click to expand...
The smaller/leaner distros copy everything to ramdisk and run from there, then commit the Delta's on shutdown.
 
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