Let's talk about the flare

[orange]

Newbie question... but, what about in a Warrior II? I make pretty sweet landings these days... to the point that my instructor gives me major kudos for them. But I rarely hear the stall horn. Honestly, until this thread, I've never even given stall horn much thought during landings or knew they had any indication to a landing's quality. Can someone explain this to me a bit?

I believe that Piper Warrior II is a Cherokee, which I trained in and fly. I had a ton of difficulty getting my landings consistent. But at some point it all clicked. The only time I hear the stall horn is if I "flare" too much and/or too high. It's rare but happens once in a while, but only on windy days it seems.

It read once that in GA, it's not a flare but a round out- the transition from flying to landing. When you pull back too aggressively, you increase you AoA to a stall point, and that's when the stall horn goes off. If you round out too high, you need to immediately correct this because dropping out of the air at 10 feet will not be good for your landing gear. If you are at 10 inches, no biggie, you are about to touch down.

 

[Herve Marchadier]

In my experience, if you try to hold a no flap Cirrus into a full stall on landing you run a real risk of dragging the tail.

As an aside, the Cirrus POH calls for full flap landings under ALL circumstances.

It's easy to do a no-flap full-stall landing without the tail striking the pavement.

 

[FastEddieB]

It's easy to do a no-flap full-stall landing without the tail striking the pavement.

I guess.

But it's also easy to do a no-flap full-stall landing WITH the tail striking the pavement.

Seen it happen with a student, preceded by a seemingly normal roundout and flare.

But...

It's worth noting it was in an AirShares plane with a tail skid attached. I'll admit it's possible that without that, it may not have hit.

However, Cirrus does recommend that no-flap landings not be held off excessively in the POH:

 

[Fearless Tower]

The bolded part IS the flare.

Exactly! When did 'flare' become a bad word to some? I always understood it to be a single word to describe rounding out and holding it off.

The opposite of flare is the Navy carrier method of flying the approach on the back side of the power curve and maintaining that path until the wheels hit the deck. Works for the Navy, but a bit hard on most civil aircraft.

 

[Herve Marchadier]

I guess.

But it's also easy to do a no-flap full-stall landing WITH the tail striking the pavement.

Seen it happen with a student, preceded by a seemingly normal roundout and flare.

But...

It's worth noting it was in an AirShares plane with a tail skid attached. I'll admit it's possible that without that, it may not have hit.

However, Cirrus does recommend that no-flap landings not be held off excessively in the POH:

Not doubting it at all. Just saying it's not that hard to do.

 

[FastEddieB]

Not doubting it at all. Just saying it's not that hard to do.

One perspective.

All I'm doing is recommending caution.

As does Cirrus.

 

[James331]

Exactly! When did 'flare' become a bad word to some? I always understood it to be a single word to describe rounding out and holding it off.

The opposite of flare is the Navy carrier method of flying the approach on the back side of the power curve and maintaining that path until the wheels hit the deck. Works for the Navy, but a bit hard on most civil aircraft.

I've always just thought of "flare" the same as "stick forward" for a wheel landing, yeah it's something you do, but it's not the level of understanding we shoot for, it's learning rote.

If you're going off sight picture you're going to have a better outcome.

Hold her off vs flare.

Keep flying her down the runway or nose on the horizon vs stick forward.

Yeah you end up "flaring" or putting the stick forward for a wheel landing, but it's a different mindset and a much better and less dangerous way of doing it, if that makes sense.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I've always just thought of "flare" the same as "stick forward" for a wheel landing, yeah it's something you do, but it's not the level of understanding we shoot for, it's learning rote.



If you're going off sight picture you're going to have a better outcome.



Hold her off vs flare.



Keep flying her down the runway or nose on the horizon vs stick forward.



Yeah you end up "flaring" or putting the stick forward for a wheel landing, but it's a different mindset and a much better and less dangerous way of doing it, if that makes sense.

Uh, ohhhkay. I've honestly never heard anyone use the word flare that way. Certainly not any tailwheel instructor I've flown with.

And using the term 'flaring' to describe pinning the mains during a wheel landing sure seems like a good way to confuse someone.

 

[James331]

Uh, ohhhkay. I've honestly never heard anyone use the word flare that way. Certainly not any tailwheel instructor I've flown with.

And using the term 'flaring' to describe pinning the mains during a wheel landing sure seems like a good way to confuse someone.

Flare for wheel landing? That the opposite of what I said.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Flare for wheel landing? That the opposite of what I said.

Maybe you meant it differently, but you actually said that you 'flare' by putting the stick forward on a wheel landing.

 

[James331]

Maybe you meant it differently, but you actually said that you 'flare' by putting the stick forward on a wheel landing.

I could have worded that differently.

Two separate issues.

Wheel landing

Flare

I wasn't combining the two :wink2:

 

[Fearless Tower]

I could have worded that differently.



Two separate issues.



Wheel landing



Flare



I wasn't combining the two :wink2:

Got it. That makes sense.

 

[3 in the green]

I come in high and let gravity do the work.

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/stol-tips/stol-tips-attitude-flying