Let's build a panel

[Hector Parra]

I'm bored guys. Let's build a panel together. I was thinking either a PA-28 or a C-172 but open to suggestions. I will add the suggested instruments to the template. I prefer steam gauges, but we can add glass if you want. I was also thinking "Light" IFR but maybe we can do a VFR and an IFR panel for the same plane.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Ok I'll start with the center stack. PS Engineering 450B and a Garmin 750 Xi with a Garmin GTR255A as second Com. Throw in a GTX345 (go remote if you want) for the transponder.

 

[asicer]

Ok I'll start with the center stack. PS Engineering 450B and a Garmin 750 Xi with a Garmin GTR255A as second Com. Throw in a GTX345 (go remote if you want) for the transponder.

Gotta reserve some space for a GFC500 in that stack, too.

I prefer steam gauges, but we can add glass if you want.

Garmin G3x gives you the option of both glass and steam (in a way):

 

[EdFred]

Non-Garmin on the transponder/ADS-B so you have more than 2 options with your EFB.

 

[asicer]

Non-Garmin on the transponder/ADS-B so you have more than 2 options with your EFB.

Nothings says you can't have more than one ADSB-In. If you really have to have something for your EFB, just toss a Stratus/Stratux somewhere in addition to the GTX345. But if you've got TIS-B/FIS-B on the GTN750 and the G3x MFD and the G3x PFD inset, why bother?

 

[Hector Parra]

Noted. I'll start adding stuff. Should we go with the PA-28 or C-172?

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Noted. I'll start adding stuff. Should we go with the PA-28 or C-172?

Low wings are always better.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Gotta reserve some space for a GFC500 in that stack, too.

Yes, how silly of me.

 

[Hector Parra]

GFC on the top or bottom? @EdFred @NealRomeoGolf @asicer

 

[Patrick]

My vote is for GFC on top, like an airliner style AP MCP.

 

[Patrick]

For PA28:

Left:

G3X PFD/MFD/EIS split view

Center:
GFC500 controller
GNC355A
GPS175
GNC255A

Right:

G3X PFD/MFD/EIS splitview

Anywhere: Non Garmin Independent backup Att. Ind. (If that’s possible, or does the GFC500 require a G5 in spite of the G3X?). Obviously a remote transponder (possible?).

 

[Hector Parra]

For PA28:

Left:

G3X PFD/MFD/EIS split view

Center:
GFC500 controller
GNC355A
GPS175
GNC255A

Right:

G3X PFD/MFD/EIS splitview

Anywhere: Non Garmin Independent backup Att. Ind. (If that’s possible, or does the GFC500 require a G5 in spite of the G3X?). Obviously a remote transponder (possible?).

Looks like this. Let's call it a "Light IFR" panel. I've added an Uavionix AV-30 as a non Garmin backup, awaiting confirmation from someone if it will "talk" with the GFC500.

 

[Patrick]

Looks like this. Let's call it a "Light IFR" panel. I've added an Uavionix AV-30 as a non Garmin backup, awaiting confirmation from someone if it will "talk" with the GFC500.

View attachment 106071

Awesome job!

Can you do the G3X in splitview showing PFD/MFD (map)/EIS? Perhaps like this:

https://res.garmin.com/en/products/...S-v2-7109c79a-9d5b-4dfc-99a4-b033962b83e1.png



The SBY ATT should have independent backup battery power, shouldn’t (!!!) be connected to anything else e.g. Garmin BUS/ARINC/SERIAL (and best be only an ATT ind. and no ASI/ALT).

As little as this makes sense, it’s great fun

 

[Hector Parra]

Awesome job!

Can you do the G3X in splitview showing PFD/MFD (map)/EIS? Perhaps like this:

https://res.garmin.com/en/products/...S-v2-7109c79a-9d5b-4dfc-99a4-b033962b83e1.png
The SBY ATT should have independent backup battery power, shouldn’t (!!!) be connected to anything else e.g. Garmin BUS/ARINC/SERIAL (and best be only an ATT ind. and no ASI/ALT).

As little as this makes sense, it’s great fun

I'm using a panel design portal called hangarflying.com and unfortunately the splitview option is not available. You just search for an specific item and then drag and drop it on the panel template

 

[asicer]

GFC on the top or bottom? @EdFred @NealRomeoGolf @asicer

View attachment 106068

Control inputs should be near your hands and displays near your eyes. Therefore, I prefer GFC at the bottom near your throttle hand and the top of the GTN aligned with the top of the G3x.

I've added an Uavionix AV-30 as a non Garmin backup, awaiting confirmation from someone if it will "talk" with the GFC500.

Pretty sure it cannot. A GI275 would look pretty sweet, though.

The SBY ATT should have independent backup battery power, shouldn’t (!!!) be connected to anything else e.g. Garmin BUS/ARINC/SERIAL (and best be only an ATT ind. and no ASI/ALT).

The G5/GI275 has a failover feature whereby it can take over GFC500 in case of a G3x failure. As much as I am with you on independent systems, this is enough of a feature that I'd forgo the independence. Plus, I'm pretty sure Garmin won't allow anything else to back up the G3x for IFR.

 

[Albany Tom]

If it were mine, I'd add a manual airspeed indicator and altimeter on the left, just to make it easier and a bit safer to land if all the electronic stuff goes out and it's VFR.

 

[Brad W]

I'm old school..it's gotta have an ADF

 

[Brad W]

Low wings are always better.

unless it's raining when you land...or a few other reasons but that's the best one.

 

[Patrick]

Control inputs should be near your hands and displays near your eyes. Therefore, I prefer GFC at the bottom near your throttle hand and the top of the GTN aligned with the top of the G3x.

You’ve got a point there. Wondering if „up straight ahead“ would be a better position for IMC / anti-vertigo? Except for Cirrus, the other manufacturers went with an MCP style AP interface on top of the glareshield.

 

[Randomskylane]

Gfc500 autopilot seems like overkill - isn’t there a market norm for avionics like, say, 35-40% of total value

Did I miss the engine monitor? Yes I need 100k of shiny new stuff just kidding before

 

[Stewartb]

G3X Touch. One and done. Remote comm, remote Txp w/ ADS-B out, remote GDL for ADS-B in, autopilot, full engine monitoring and fuel management, AOA. I have round gauges in my Cessna. I like the G3X better.

 

[Hector Parra]

So, Light IFR looks like this. The Price you see to the right is just the hardware. Off course we're missing switches, breakers, remotely installed stuff and installation costs among other things.



Hard VFR, like this:


Sorry @Brad W I couldn't find an ADF. @Albany Tom Just a random location I chose to the left, but there they are. @asicer there's your 275 too. For budgeting purposes maybe we can get rid of one screen and add an Ipad with Foreflight or something like that. And we're also missing an Engine Monitor as @Randomskylane noted. The G3X can cover that, but if we want a dedicated instrument, I was thinking on a horizontal EDM from JPI Instruments, but there's not much available space. Maybe a digital round gauge form MGL Avionics

 

[Hector Parra]

G3X Touch. One and done. Remote comm, remote Txp w/ ADS-B out, remote GDL for ADS-B in, autopilot, full engine monitoring and fuel management, AOA. I have round gauges in my Cessna. I like the G3X better.


View attachment 106091

Great panel there. The only thing I don't love (But I can live with that) is the CO detector as an sticker and not as an instrument or handheld device. The yellow dot can be easily contaminated.

 

[EdFred]

Why you putting all that money in a PA28?

 

[Hector Parra]

Why you putting all that money in a PA28?

I'm not, just wanted to do a group exercise. I'm with you, is ridiculously high for the plane and we're still missing installation costs.

 

[WDD]

This is the perfect panel. You're welcome.

 

[Tantalum]

This is cool, great idea Hector

The group here sure loves glass! Don't get me wrong, it's cool, but a big square sort of limits your flexibility and freedom to customize your plane and not have it look like every other Garmin Glass plane out there. If we are going 'light IFR' and more budget sensitive (sorta) I like what WDD above me did. The difference is I'd put the AP on top, like how the big boys do it. It also makes more ergonomical sense to me

I don't like big empty panel spots either so I'd vote putting a basic set of instruments on that side too, budget AI and HSI.. OR.. a mount to semi-permanently install an iPad. Having the iPad on your knee, yoke, or suction cupped is not ideal, why not use up the big blank?

 

[Hector Parra]

This is cool, great idea Hector

The group here sure loves glass! Don't get me wrong, it's cool, but a big square sort of limits your flexibility and freedom to customize your plane and not have it look like every other Garmin Glass plane out there. If we are going 'light IFR' and more budget sensitive (sorta) I like what WDD above me did. The difference is I'd put the AP on top, like how the big boys do it. It also makes more ergonomical sense to me

I don't like big empty panel spots either so I'd vote putting a basic set of instruments on that side too, budget AI and HSI.. OR.. a mount to semi-permanently install an iPad. Having the iPad on your knee, yoke, or suction cupped is not ideal, why not use up the big blank?

Yup, I'm actually with you and @WDD on this. I'll only update the vacuum system instrument (dual G5's or uAvionics AV-30) and I'll love to have an engine monitor screen. I'm still not decided on my "forever" plane, but the finalists are:

Beech Sierra C24R


And the Mooney 20J



Both panels are still a WIP

 

[Brad W]

......

Sorry @Brad W I couldn't find an ADF......

ahh, that's ok. I heard a nasty rumor that there's not much out there for their needles to point to anyway. But thanks for trying.

 

[Tantalum]

Yup, I'm actually with you and @WDD on this. I'll only update the vacuum system instrument (dual G5's or uAvionics AV-30) and I'll love to have an engine monitor screen. I'm still not decided on my "forever" plane, but the finalists are:

Beech Sierra C24R

View attachment 106103
And the Mooney 20J

View attachment 106104

Both panels are still a WIP

Mooney for the win!

 

[Salty]

So, Light IFR looks like this. The Price you see to the right is just the hardware. Off course we're missing switches, breakers, remotely installed stuff and installation costs among other things.

View attachment 106092

Hard VFR, like this:
View attachment 106093

Sorry @Brad W I couldn't find an ADF. @Albany Tom Just a random location I chose to the left, but there they are. @asicer there's your 275 too. For budgeting purposes maybe we can get rid of one screen and add an Ipad with Foreflight or something like that. And we're also missing an Engine Monitor as @Randomskylane noted. The G3X can cover that, but if we want a dedicated instrument, I was thinking on a horizontal EDM from JPI Instruments, but there's not much available space. Maybe a digital round gauge form MGL Avionics

Just as an fyi, those prices are very unrealistic and don’t include install costs. I recently got a quote for a panel very close to the bottom one. It was over $100,000 for the gear, panel work, and autopilot install.

 

[wheaties]

Chiming in with @Salty, i am getting quotes of ~30k for a G3X w/ G5 backup on a certified plane and ~20k for Aspen 1000 + STEC integration. For primary engine monitor I'm getting 13-15k depending on options on a JPI 900, I have a 700 w/ FF.

so yeah, labor and those hidden boxes add up fast, especially engine monitors. Those things cost 1.5x in labor.

 

[Hector Parra]

Just as an fyi, those prices are very unrealistic and don’t include install costs. I recently got a quote for a panel very close to the bottom one. It was over $100,000 for the gear, panel work, and autopilot install.

Yup, I mentioned it. Is for hardware only. With install costs, you're basically buying another plane. So Youtuber's are either rich or getting insane rebates. Many are doing it recently.

 

[Hector Parra]

Chiming in with @Salty, i am getting quotes of ~30k for a G3X w/ G5 backup on a certified plane and ~20k for Aspen 1000 + STEC integration. For primary engine monitor I'm getting 13-15k depending on options on a JPI 900, I have a 700 w/ FF.

so yeah, labor and those hidden boxes add up fast, especially engine monitors. Those things cost 1.5x in labor.

Wow, had no idea about engine monitors being that labor intensive. But it makes sense now that I think about it.

 

[wheaties]

@Hector Parra, yeah i went from a "must have 900" to a "upgrade to 830 sounds fine to me" real fast. My primary needles are next to useless but the MP and RPM are just fine. So i could, if i wanted,, just deal with the 700 fkr the next few years.

 

[asicer]

View attachment 106100 This is the perfect panel. You're welcome.

Looks like you're missing an IFR clock.

 

[WDD]

Just as an fyi, those prices are very unrealistic and don’t include install costs. I recently got a quote for a panel very close to the bottom one. It was over $100,000 for the gear, panel work, and autopilot install.

Which is partly why I lean to "steam glass". The panel I suggested I think would cost around $50 - $70k all in. If I put in some G3's it would be higher. I also tried to have some scalability. In the future you could take out the steam gauges, put in a single G3, and move the three G275's between the center and the new G3.

 

[Racerx]

Just as an fyi, those prices are very unrealistic and don’t include install costs. I recently got a quote for a panel very close to the bottom one. It was over $100,000 for the gear, panel work, and autopilot install.

Upgrading the lance? Had enough with the Aspen?

 

[Salty]

Upgrading the lance? Had enough with the Aspen?

I got a quote before I bought the lance.

I picked up a used dynon hdx at sun n fun. The whole package. Got a super deal. The plan is to install it someday. Not in a rush.

my issue is Aspen and stec both seem to be never ending money sucks. Even worse than garmin IMO. There always seems to be another upgrade you need to get it to actually do what it advertises. Stec wants 15k to upgrade the 55x to the 3100 and add a yaw damper. That’s using the existing servos. And I have to send in the servos to be modified, so the plane is down for who knows how long. And it’s a 9 month wait for parts. I can buy a brand new garmin for that much money and there’s only the wait for parts, not an additional wait for servos to be modified, and the plane can fly while I wait.

to get the Aspen to play with the stec is another 3.5k, but if I do that now, it’s another 4K if I upgrade to the 3100 because it’s a different integration, so I either don’t upgrade the. 55x, or wait to integrate the Aspen until I upgrade the 3100, or pay twice.

so, I’m looking to get away from both of them eventually, but they are working fine and I’m in no hurry.

 

[iamtheari]

I don't like permanent iPad mounts in the panel, because they lock you into the specific iPad model they were designed for. I'd rather have a RAM mount so I can upgrade the iPad without touching the panel. But I'll be watching this thread for better ideas for blank copilot panel space.