Legal trouble and getting private pilot license current

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Good afternoon,

I pursued and obtained my FAA private pilot certificated in 2006. Unfortunately I had a series of bad decisions while in college partying which lead to 4 different arrest and charges. I ended up with a misdemeanor DUI (2006), misdemeanor Possession of a controlled substance (2006), misdemeanor resisting arrest (2009) and felony possession of a controlled substance (2009).

I went through extensive rehab, treatment, counseling, community service, drug test, probation, etc and have been completely clean since 2009 without any additional arrests or problems.

I understand the "normal" process of getting a current medical exam and the standard flight training necessary to become "current".

I'm extremely excited to start flying again. My question is should I wait (another 4 years) to get current until I have all of my charges expunged or do you think the FAA will be ok with the treatment I have received and grant me GA flying privileges assuming I'm healthy?
 
First, learn from your mistakes and never do that again.

Second, you need the advice of a very well seasoned Aviation Medical advocate to not only chart your course of what needs to be done and gathered, but also stand by you as you make your case to the FAA.

There are very few folks in this land who can do both of those. If you have been around these forums for a while, you'll be aware that the right person to have as the leader of your team is Dr. Bruce Chien in Peoria, IL. He now only knows the correct steps to create your submission packet, he also knows the different folks at OKC who will be reviewing your submission. And he has their respect.

His services are valuable, and will have a reasonable cost, but they do come at the price of you being very honest and humble with him. He will not abide with folks who lie, omit, or whine/complain about feeling fine. But if you are 100% open, honest, and comply with his instructions, your chances of obtaining your medical will be as good as possible. Never 100%, but much better than stumbling around using an AME who doesn't have the experience Dr. Chien has.

Do keep in mind that there will be lots of record gathering, and possibly the requirement of expensive testing to answer various issues including psychological. If such testing is required, it will be totally out your pocket and not covered by insurance. In past discussions, cost of testing in the neighborhood of $5000 has been mentioned.

Finally, this forum isn't the best venue to discuss your case and create the entire roadmap of successful reinstatement. I suggest to let post #1 be the only thing here, and you seek out Dr. Chein as soon as you are able.

Dr. Bruce Chien can be found on as the Moderator of the Medical Matters forum on http://www.aopa.org/forums or through his website http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com

Best of luck to you.
 
Wait the 4 years, I really don't want you flying. There is a reason for the medical and drug /alcohol abuse restrictions on the pilot license.
 
If you did not report the DUI to FAA Security within the prescribed time limit, that will add to your difficulties and yes, Dr. Chien will know how to proceed, if at all.
 
Mason said:
If you did not report the DUI to FAA Security within the prescribed time limit,
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Totally forgot that point (would have remembered if it I was in the OP's pickle barrel)

@Ron_Levy -- If the OP didn't report, how are his chances?
 
You have a long ,hard road ahead. Get in touch with Dr. Bruce. Good luck.
 
Geico266 said:
Wait the 4 years, I really don't want you flying. There is a reason for the medical and drug /alcohol abuse restrictions on the pilot license.
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A pilot with a problem is usually only dangerous to himself and his own pax, I would think.

Now, hurting the reputation of GA, that's another matter.
 
I would hardly classify a binger night in college a sign the dude has a problem, frankly now days everyone has a problem, back to our puritan roots I guess.

If you weren't denied a medical maybe just use your PPL to fall back as a sport pilot until you can get your paperwork cleaned up ?

Like the others somewhat said, if you're going to party cool, just got to be smarter about it.
 
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If you didn't report the offenses to the FAA per 14 CFR 61.15, you'll probably want to work through an attorney to discose those offenses. That's not something an AME like Dr. Chien can help with.
 
Brad Z said:
If you didn't report the offenses to the FAA per 14 CFR 61.15, you'll probably want to work through an attorney to discose those offenses. That's not something an AME like Dr. Chien can help with./
Not directly. But part of what I was saying in post #2 was that Doc Bruce would be the "leader of the band", advising the OP to go see the lawyer in the horn section to handle the "you didn't report" issues. Then later, getting the HIMS psychiatrist on drums working on any required eval.
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What Doc Bruce (and any sane AME will do) is NOT let you start a medical application if you have NOT yet reported it. The penalties for failing to report are MORE severe if you don't report it and the FAA finds out than just reporting late without the FAA notice. The number one way the FAA finds out is when the conviction shows up in 18 v/w on the medical forms.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...ams/investigations/airmen_duidwi/airman_faqs/

You should probably consult an aviation attorney.

With that many DUI and drug offenses together, you're going to have one hard road to certification. The FAA is *NOT* just going to take a happy letter from whatever treatment program you came out of. You've got a lot of testing and other stuff to do which will be done through a HIMS AME (of which Dr. Bruce is one) if it is even possible.
 
James331 said:
I would hardly classify a binger night in college a sign the dude has a problem, frankly now days everyone has a problem, back to our puritan roots I guess.
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This looks like two separate incidents three years apart. Not exactly a binger in college. And what did he do in those intervening years that he didn't get caught for??
 
James331 said:
$$$

He has enough money to buy enough "justice" to get them wiped :dunno:
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I have been told that expungement doesn't matter as far as the FAA is concerned, and that expunged convictions still have to be reported. How true that is I don't know.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
I have been told that expungement doesn't matter as far as the FAA is concerned, and that expunged convictions still have to be reported. How true that is I don't know.

Rich
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It depends.

Generally speaking, it's the law of the state where the court action took place that determines whether something is a "conviction" or another breed of animal. IOW, if the state says you weren't convicted, you weren't.

But things are rarely as simple as that, which is why the question in this thread requires both legal and FAA-medical expertise to answer it after a consultation in which the actual court records are reviewed (if they exist; in some states, after an expungement, there won't much of anything, even the arrest record and the record of the expungement disappear from view except for extremely limited purposes).
 
Expungement is also not complete. It's not like the old days of paper files where the paper was destroyed. All the information still remains, just like everything on the Internet. Besides, in his case the expungement date and the FAA forgiveness date on drug felonies coincide. The question is can he get a medical before that date.
 
No point making guesses as to whether expungement will help without knowing what state these offenses took place in. However, even if the DUI is expunged, he failed to report it as required within 60 days of it happening. Expungement won't matter here. Even having it subsequently overturned on an appeal wouldn't eliminate the reporting requirement.

In most states you couldn't expunge felonies or even multiple misdemeanors. That's not to say there may not be one out there.
 
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flyingron said:
No point making guesses as to whether expungement will help without knowing what state these offenses took place in. However, even if the DUI is expunged, he failed to report it as required within 60 days of it happening. Expungement won't matter here. Even having it subsequently overturned on an appeal wouldn't eliminate the reporting requirement.

In most states you couldn't expunge felonies or even multiple misdemeanors. That's not to say there may not be one out there.
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There are. I do some pro bono work in my semi-retirement; a lot of it involves expungements.

But as you can tell, you and I are in complete agreement on the uselessness of making guesses - even if we did know what state the offenses took place in.
 
James331 said:
$$$

He has enough money to buy enough "justice" to get them wiped :dunno:
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Man, you just dole out all kinds of "advice" of which you have no freaking clue.

My question was WHY does he think they can be expunged. Some things can, some things can't. I wondered if he was like you, shooting from the hip with ZERO relevant information, or if he had already talked to someone.
 
retailguy said:
Man, you just dole out all kinds of "advice" of which you have no freaking clue.

My question was WHY does he think they can be expunged. Some things can, some things can't. I wondered if he was like you, shooting from the hip with ZERO relevant information, or if he had already talked to someone.
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Now, now. Don't be so harsh. I guess if one had enough money or pull one could buy the right federal or state legislator and get a special bill passed just for him :D:happydance:
 
midlifeflyer said:
Now, now. Don't be so harsh. I guess if one had enough money or pull one could buy the right federal or state legislator and get a special bill passed just for him :D:happydance:
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Hell, I have a brother who called the local prosecutor (to talk to the local judge) for 2 DUIs and a possession of marijuana charge. His statement was "I'd like to get my record expunged, it was 8 years ago and I was just a kid and I'm willing to make a sizeable donation to the charity or organization of your choice".

A few hours later he wrote an $800 check to big brothers/big sisters. His conviction record is clean.

I know how it was worded because I drove him to fax the written agreement.
 
gitmo234 said:
Hell, I have a brother who called the local prosecutor (to talk to the local judge) for 2 DUIs and a possession of marijuana charge. His statement was "I'd like to get my record expunged, it was 8 years ago and I was just a kid and I'm willing to make a sizeable donation to the charity or organization of your choice".

A few hours later he wrote an $800 check to big brothers/big sisters. His conviction record is clean.

I know how it was worded because I drove him to fax the written agreement.
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There still has to be a state law that authorizes it. Even judges are limited in what they can do. If we are talking Pennsylvania, its a bit more liberal on the subject than many other states.
 
This was back in Missouri. I can't remember the legal details but they found some kinda round about way that almost made sense.
 
dans2992 said:
A pilot with a problem is usually only dangerous to himself and his own pax, I would think.

Now, hurting the reputation of GA, that's another matter.
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Totally wrong. He has way too many DUIs . Statistics prove that he probably drove drunk many more times than he was caught. Could have easily contributed to the thousands of drunk driving deaths that occur each year. Probably safe to say he won't fly for a long time unless he lies about his past in which case , if caught, it's the Feds. Big trouble. Dishonest judges are a problem but mothers against drunken drivers watch a lot of court rooms very carefully so many are hesitant to take a payoff.
 
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In the old days "expunging a record" meant literally just going in and throwing out the file. If someone called up to see if there was a record there was nothing to find.

These days it's not so simple. The local authorities and courts may consider the convictions expunged but that data is still out there and Federal authorities may not give a rats @** what some local municipality did after the fact.

Best to get a lawyer to navigate these waters, but highly doubt it's going to be as simple as getting a local record cleaned and then hoping the Feds honor that action and ignore the data they already have in their own databases.
 
Doesn't the "HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE...." in the preamble of Question 18 on the MedXpress form have some bearing on the OP's situation, as 18w is where the details of the history of nontraffic conviction(s) (misdemeanors and felonies) is recorded.

To me, the "ever in your life" part trumps expungement.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Totally wrong. He has way too many DUIs . Statistics prove that he probably drove drunk many more times than he was caught. Could have easily contributed to the thousands of drunk driving deaths that occur each year. Probably safe to say he won't fly for a long time unless he lies about his past in which case , if caught, it's the Feds. Big trouble. Dishonest judges are a problem but mothers against drunken drivers watch a lot of court rooms very carefully so many are hesitant to take a payoff.
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Agreed about driving. We're not talking about driving though. Chances are, he's not going to have a midair if he's drunk.

It's a wonder that this person is deemed "OK" to drive, where there is much greater danger of killing others than flying with a Class III.
 
dans2992 said:
Agreed about driving. We're not talking about driving though. Chances are, he's not going to have a midair if he's drunk.

It's a wonder that this person is deemed "OK" to drive, where there is much greater danger of killing others than flying with a Class III.
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Apparently you missed out on the fact that pilots are a group of steely eyed wunderkind with abilities that far surpass the average low life human. Impervious to physical and mental disturbances, they set a standard that the rest of the world can only view with awe and amazement. And, of course, anyone who falls short is to be cast out into the darkness and never spoken of again.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Doesn't the "HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE...." in the preamble of Question 18 on the MedXpress form have some bearing on the OP's situation, as 18w is where the details of the history of nontraffic conviction(s) (misdemeanors and felonies) is recorded.

To me, the "ever in your life" part trumps expungement.
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It depends on the state and how an expungement is done. In some states/localities the judge will issue a pardon and expungement in a manner that allows a person to answer questions as if the conviction never occurred. In others, it's simply a sealing of records. In many states felonies cannot be expunged, nor can multiple misdemeanors. If the conviction was an offense as a minor, different rules apply.

And some agencies of the Federal government don't honor expungements, even the ones that include a pardon. Customs & Immigration is one. And other countries may not honor it either for visa/immigration/border control purposes. Don't know about the FAA.

Best advice is to get good legal advice both from a local attorney that can help with expungement. And advice from an aviation lawyer that can guide on Question 18 based on the language of the expungement order.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Doesn't the "HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE...." in the preamble of Question 18 on the MedXpress form have some bearing on the OP's situation, as 18w is where the details of the history of nontraffic conviction(s) (misdemeanors and felonies) is recorded.

To me, the "ever in your life" part trumps expungement.
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This a confusing area, because once expunged, depending on the wording of the laws, you haven't been convicted. Some places its "it never happened" other places its "destroy the record"
 
wsuffa said:
It depends on the state and how an expungement is done. In some states/localities the judge will issue a pardon and expungement in a manner that allows a person to answer questions as if the conviction never occurred. In others, it's simply a sealing of records. In many states felonies cannot be expunged, nor can multiple misdemeanors. If the conviction was an offense as a minor, different rules apply.

And some agencies of the Federal government don't honor expungements, even the ones that include a pardon. Customs & Immigration is one. And other countries may not honor it either for visa/immigration/border control purposes. Don't know about the FAA.

Best advice is to get good legal advice both from a local attorney that can help with expungement. And advice from an aviation lawyer that can guide on Question 18 based on the language of the expungement order.
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Good post. :yes:

And even then, the answer might not be 100% clear.
 
gitmo234 said:
This a confusing area, because once expunged, depending on the wording of the laws, you haven't been convicted. Some places its "it never happened" other places its "destroy the record"
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The courts and the FAA have different interests here. The FAA asks the question around drugs and alcohol because they want to know if you've ever had a problem with dugs and alcohol. The FAA isn't a court... they don't care about your DUI record from a 'what do we do with you if you commit another crime' standpoint but rather the FAA wants to know if you ever had a problem to the point that you operated a transport vehicle under the influence. It's a medical question more than a legal question. In that context it's a simple yes/no question.

You can't after the fact no longer have previously had a problem with drugs and alcohol. That doesn't instantly bar someone from flying forever but I kind of don't think the FAA would be to happy with someone pretending that they never had a problem when they did (regardless of what some local judge did with ones criminal record). Get a lawyer, but just remember why the FAA is asking the question to begin with as that's really going to guide the response.
 
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Right, but they too could end up like another government agency under the DoD umbrella. A position required for the employee to had never had a domestic violence incident. The individual did, but the record was expunged. My prior boss found out about the expungement and initiated termination against the person.

That person is now pretty close to a millionaire and my boss works elsewhere
 
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