Last US Carrier 747 Flight

[GRG55]

Still see a 744 once a day (most days) here in Phoenix, thanks to the Brits.

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BA has quite a fleet of 747-400s. When I lived in the Middle East last decade I was back and forth between London and the Persian Gulf every couple of weeks. The upper deck Business Class seats on their 747s was the best kept secret. A separate carry on luggage closet, two separate toilets, galley with two flight attendants, and only 20 seats. It was as good as First Class at half the price.

Unfortunately in my last year there they swapped out the 747s for 777s on my route.

 

[MassPilot]

My first ever airplane ride was on a 747. I was 14 and on a British Airways flight from JFK to Heathrow. I still remember being in awe of the size of the thing when I got to my gate and saw it through the window.

 

[Tantalum]

Boeing always built beautiful (jet) airplanes (I think Douglas wins the competition for most beautiful propeller giants). Computers are great, but you can't replace a human artist's design

The age of 4 engine passenger jets is essentially over

The reliability and economics of two engines can't be beat. My question is, in today's age of extremely tight economics and thin margins with air travel, how is that cargo carriers are still able to make money with 3 and 4 engine planes?

The MD-11 had a pitiful passenger life, but they're doing excellent (it seems) in the cargo market... as are 747s, and up until (relatively recently) even DC8s and 727s. Why is that? Are the margins just much wider on cargo that they can afford the extra costs of 3 and 4 engine birds? Or is the plane cheap enough by the time a cargo carrier gets it that they're still better off in the long run with such a low up front cost (but if that were true, then why is the 747-8 selling new to cargo? There are plenty of 747s out in the desert that I'm sure can be had for much lower than a new 748)

*Airbus made the wrong call with the A380.. if it weren't for ME carriers that plane would be a failure. The 777 (and success of their own A330, and failure of the A340, esp A340-600, and reducing 747 sales) should have been very clear evidence for them that two engine efficiency is going to win when put up against 4 engines every time... A two engine A380 would have been interesting... someone on another forum once posted this picture below.. not a bad looking plane! And not unreasonable... the GE90 puts out absurd thrust, and was designed when, back in the early 90s? I am sure if called to task they could juice it up another 50K lbs in thrust. (4X70=280K, 3X70=210K, 2X70=140K.. so at 160K lbs of thrust you could theoretically power the A380 and have (some) engine out climb performance

 

[mscard88]

When UPS had the DC8 I think they replaced the engines to make them more fuel efficient. I always heard the MD11 didn't live up to it's promises for range, at least the ones Delta had for awhile, which was Delta only had a small fleet of them.

I always liked the look of the stretch version of the DC-8, especially with the bigger engines.

 

[Tantalum]

I always liked the look of the stretch version of the DC-8, especially with the bigger engines.

I'm too young unfortunately to have ever ridden on a pax version, but I've read stories of the fuselage visibly flexing in flight, especially from the rear couple rows

 

[mscard88]

I'm too young unfortunately to have ever ridden on a pax version, but I've read stories of the fuselage visibly flexing in flight, especially from the rear couple rows

I was packed in like sardines on the military charter flights on the DC-8 when I was stationed in Germany and Korea.

 

[FormerHangie]

I'm too young unfortunately to have ever ridden on a pax version, but I've read stories of the fuselage visibly flexing in flight, especially from the rear couple rows

My first (airline) flight was on a Delta DC-8. I don't recall anything flexy about it, but then everything was new to me at the time.

I did fly on a 747 three times, once from Tampa to Chicago on Northwest, and round trip Los Angeles - Sydney on Quantas. There was some odd circumstance that had Northwest using those for domestic routes. At the time I went to Australia, the 747-400 was the standard of the day, just you and 394 of your closest friends.

I don't fly all that often, but when I do it seems like it's always a 737 or some member of the A-320 family, even semi-transcontinental. Back when I was going on ski trips, it was either a 727, then later a 757, which was my favorite. Still is, but I don't know if I'll ride on one again, they're getting a little scarce.

 

[Tantalum]

it's always a 737 or some member of the A-320 family

Yeah... the ramps have certainly gotten quite boring. Miss seeing a cool assortment out there. I keep hoping some day someone will make something radical (now and then someone teases a BWB, or some crazy canard or box wing design).. but probably not. Just like cars get more and more vanilla as everything tends toward the "optimal"* design

*that which gets you the most sales, cheapest

 

[Ted]

Ravioli's True Story time:

I gave my mother a ticket from LA to Virginia to visit my brother. I splurged and got her Business class since it was such a long flight. The plane was a 747.

I asked how her flight was and she says "It was okay, but I had to WALK UP A FLIGHT OF STAIRS"

Sheesh!

Sounds like my mom. If I sent a G650 to pick her up she'd complain that it took too long to get to the airport and she had to climb stairs to get on it. Oh, and that it was a "small plane."

 

[Larry in TN]

When UPS had the DC8 I think they replaced the engines to make them more fuel efficient.

UPS had nothing to do with it. The DC8 70-series conversation project ran from 1982 through 1988 and was not isolated to a single airline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-8#Super_70_Series

 

[mscard88]

UPS had nothing to do with it. The DC8 70-series conversation project ran from 1982 through 1988 and was not isolated to a single airline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-8#Super_70_Series

Thanks. I stand corrected.

I did say "I think" BTW.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Boeing always built beautiful (jet) airplanes (I think Douglas wins the competition for most beautiful propeller giants).

I like what Lockheed did. Always a big fan of the Connie.

But beauty is so subjective. I think it was Nuccio Bertone, famed Italian car stylist, that said something along the lines of "Mrs. Toad is beautiful in the eyes of Mr. Toad."

 

[mscard88]

I like what Lockheed did. Always a big fan of the Connie.

But beauty is so subjective. I think it was Nuccio Bertone, famed Italian car stylist, that said something along the lines of "Mrs. Toad is beautiful in the eyes of Mr. Toad."

View attachment 58602

Personally that's my favorite airlines. Flew on one, an Air Force C-121, from Zweibrucken Air Base Germany to Torrejon Air Base in Spain. My wife said it looks like a penis when she saw one at McGuire AFB. See what a bad influence she is on me!

 

[Tantalum]

I like what Lockheed did. Always a big fan of the Connie.

It's beautiful in the air and it's a real looker for sure, big but we'll proportioned. I do however think it looks a little ungainly on the ground with that super long nose gear

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Yep, gear is weird for sure.

 

[mscard88]

It's beautiful in the air and it's a real looker for sure, big but we'll proportioned. I do however think it looks a little ungainly on the ground with that super long nose gear

Clearance in case they go "off roading"!

 

[GRG55]

Personally that's my favorite airlines. Flew on one, an Air Force C-121, from Zweibrucken Air Base Germany to Torrejon Air Base in Spain. My wife said it looks like a penis when she saw one at McGuire AFB. See what a bad influence she is on me!

Your penis has wings?

Puts a different slant on things when you ask her to come fly with you...

 

[GRG55]

My first ever airplane ride was on a 747. I was 14 and on a British Airways flight from JFK to Heathrow. I still remember being in awe of the size of the thing when I got to my gate and saw it through the window.

My first ever flight on an airplane was a DC-8 in 1964. Had to stop to re-fuel in Ancorage and Tokyo on a flight from the west coast to Hong Kong. Thirteen years later I was a mech eng student and the local ASME chapter organized a visit to the airline's maintenance base, where we got to crawl around one of their 747s. In the same hangar, right behind the jumbo jet, was one of those early DC-8s stripped to bare aluminum. The 747 looked absolutely huge next to it; no doubt the scale was enhanced by the fact it was indoors.

 

[Busflyer]

When UPS had the DC8 I think they replaced the engines to make them more fuel efficient. I always heard the MD11 didn't live up to it's promises for range, at least the ones Delta had for awhile, which was Delta only had a small fleet of them.

They did replace the Pratts on the 727 with Rolls Royce Tay engines for noise compliance and fuel savings. You could tell them by the swelled inlet on number 2 and the MD-80 style reversers on 1&3.

 

[Sluggo63]

View attachment 58618

They did replace the Pratts on the 727 with Rolls Royce Tay engines for noise compliance and fuel savings. You could tell them by the swelled inlet on number 2 and the MD-80 style reversers on 1&3.

I don’t know if that’s the same program that FedEx used, but we had 11 of our 727-200s outfitted with the “Valsan” conversion. Basically, they took the standard JT8D-15/17 pod engines off and put on JT8D-217 engines on each pod (same engine the MD-80 uses). The engines are much bigger than the -15/17s so it was unmistakable that you were in a Valsan bird that day. A few other changes were made, like the removal of the #2 (tail mounted) thrust reverser, and converting the pod reverser from being pneumatically operated to hydraulically operated. We basically used them at high-altitude fields especially if they were going to be heavy-weight.



(As an aside, this Valsan modified 727-200, N217FE, was the last 727 ever built)

 

[Sluggo63]

Boeing always built beautiful (jet) airplanes (I think Douglas wins the competition for most beautiful propeller giants).[/ATTACH]

Boeing builds airplanes...

Douglas builds character...

 

[kayoh190]

You guys are getting me all hot and bothered with the 727 pics. Love that airplane!

(my birthday is July 27th, so it's been a favorite of mine forever)

 

[Pilawt]

I always liked the look of the stretch version of the DC-8, especially with the bigger engines.

The long and short of it ...

 

[Busflyer]

The Tay conversion was different than what FedEx used. Tays only went on the 727-100.

 

[Zeldman]

It's beautiful in the air and it's a real looker for sure, big but we'll proportioned. I do however think it looks a little ungainly on the ground with that super long nose gear

They had to make the nose leg long so it would reach the ground.....

 

[Tantalum]

They had to make the nose leg long so it would reach the ground

Ha! With those big props it needs it. Ultimately a plane's home is in the air, not the ground, so I can forgive the long gear. My biggest issue with the 737 family has always been squashed engines for ground clearance. I still think the most beautiful plane is a 3 way tie between these:

*DC3
*all metal Cessna 195
*VC10 (threw a curve ball there)

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Ha! With those big props it needs it. Ultimately a plane's home is in the air, not the ground, so I can forgive the long gear. My biggest issue with the 737 family has always been squashed engines for ground clearance. I still think the most beautiful plane is a 3 way tie between these:

*DC3
*all metal Cessna 195
*VC10 (threw a curve ball there)

Was there ever a 195 that was NOT all metal?

 

[Tantalum]

Ha! Meant polished, unpainted

 

[Velocity173]

Only been on one 747 flight. Tower Air contract out of Kadena AFB in 1998. Piece of junk broke, spent probably 12 hours sitting in a hanger waiting to board. Finally at around 0200 they sent us back to the transient barracks for a 0400 wake up. Only in the military.

 

[mscard88]

Only been on one 747 flight. Tower Air contract out of Kadena AFB in 1998. Piece of junk broke, spent probably 12 hours sitting in a hanger waiting to board. Finally at around 0200 they sent us back to the transient barracks for a 0400 wake up. Only in the military.

Not the military's fault a contract plane broke. Right?

 

[Velocity173]

Not the military's fault a contract plane broke. Right?

Of course not. To wake us up sleeping in the hanger floor, to be sent to a barracks, only to have a showtime back at a hanger 2 hrs later, is a military decision. I wouldn't expect anything less from the Marines though.

 

[mscard88]

Of course not. To wake us up sleeping in the hanger floor, to be sent to a barracks, only to have a showtime back at a hanger 2 hrs later, is a military decision. I wouldn't expect anything less from the Marines though.

LOL not restricted to the Marines. "Hurry up and wait" is what we called it.

 

[Sinistar]

I was fortunate enough to fly several 747 flights from Minneapolis thru Narita in business class, thought it was awesome!!! Must admit though on a more recent family trip on the Dreamliner from LAX to Auckland, the Dreamliner is even more awesomerer.

My wife forwarded this on to me today. A last Delta 747 doing a low and slow pass here at KMSP today. Wow does that big thing just hang there going low and slow.

 

[iflyforfun]

KLM and AirFrance both still fly 747s. I flew on three of them this summer. The FA gave me a warning when I walked upstairs to peek at what was the lounge, now first class.

Thai Airways still flies something like a dozen of them. As much as I love the 747s, the Thai Airways are pretty worn out. Flew biz class on the upper deck and the first seat didn't have entertainment working, the second had a broken foot rest and they all looked frayed and worn. Kindda sad.

 

[Larry in TN]

Atlas, a US airline, still flies a couple of passenger 747s but they are not in scheduled service. They fly charters for the military and, I believe, an oil company out of Houston.

 

[Bill]

Looks like Airbus 380 production may be in question now:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...-superjumbo-amid-lackluster-sales/1033626001/

 

[Paulie]

C

When UPS had the DC8 I think they replaced the engines to make them more fuel efficient. I always heard the MD11 didn't live up to it's promises for range, at least the ones Delta had for awhile, which was Delta only had a small fleet of them.

I always liked the look of the stretch version of the DC-8, especially with the bigger engines.

Converted to CFM engines. My dad's name is on a lot of their C of As. They were rocket ships with those engines.

 

[Paulie]

First airplane I ever worked on was a 727, Braniff Airways. I wouldn't say the 217s were hugely different than a -17. A -9, yes.

I don’t know if that’s the same program that FedEx used, but we had 11 of our 727-200s outfitted with the “Valsan” conversion. Basically, they took the standard JT8D-15/17 pod engines off and put on JT8D-217 engines on each pod (same engine the MD-80 uses). The engines are much bigger than the -15/17s so it was unmistakable that you were in a Valsan bird that day. A few other changes were made, like the removal of the #2 (tail mounted) thrust reverser, and converting the pod reverser from being pneumatically operated to hydraulically operated. We basically used them at high-altitude fields especially if they were going to be heavy-weight.

View attachment 58620

(As an aside, this Valsan modified 727-200, N217FE, was the last 727 ever built)

 

[Paulie]

I'm too young unfortunately to have ever ridden on a pax version, but I've read stories of the fuselage visibly flexing in flight, especially from the rear couple rows

On one class -8s without the bulkheads to separate the scum from first class you could stand in the back and watch the front of the plane twisting in the opposite direction.