Slipkid65
Pre-takeoff checklist
That's impressive since there is no Continental anymore...
Yeah, all of their airplanes say UNITED on the side now... Weird!
Last AirTran flight
- Thread starter N747JB
- Start date
Yeah, all of their airplanes say UNITED on the side now... Weird!
denverpilot
Tied Down
I believe they're called WalMart Air now.
N747JB
Final Approach
I think the old joke is "If you're going to hell, you'll have to change planes in Atlanta" The good thing about ATL is there are direct flights to tons of places, I will miss AT because they kept Delta's fares more in line, SWA has dropped a fair number of those routes, so prices have gone up. 
The good thing about ATL is there are direct flights to tons of places, I will miss AT because they kept Delta's fares more in line, SWA has dropped a fair number of those routes, so prices have gone up. 
Art VanDelay
Pattern Altitude
Yeah, all of their airplanes say UNITED on the side now... Weird!
Official company name = United Continental Holdings
NoHeat
Final Approach
Is it just me..... Or do all three look related??
One thing the three have in common -- they will need new hats and uniforms.
How long will the old airtran crews wear the ones with the A logo?
Slipkid65
Pre-takeoff checklist
NoHeat
Final Approach
Weren't Northwest hats still worn by Delta pilots for a while, after their merger? Or did they all have a second uniform on hand, ready to swap at midnight, no matter where they were?
Slipkid65
Pre-takeoff checklist
No idea about DAL/NWA, but the AT crews all have to go through SWA training as if they were new hires, so no need to have uniforms ready overnight.
Since DAL/NWA didn't lose any airframes with the merger, they had to keep the same schedule the next day, so I assume they just wore their old uniforms for a while. In a previous life, I wore my Pan Am Express uniform for several months after TWA bought us, mainly because they couldn't figure out what uniform we were gonna wear.
SW is only taking the 737s from AT, and all of them have already been pulled from the line and either transitioned over to SW or are in the process. The only pilots left over there were some of the 717 folks.
Most of the pilots have already transitioned to SW over the last 2 years or so. The ones that haven't will go through training in the first few months of 2015.
I've seen a few of the transitioned guys wear their AT wings instead of their SW Wings on their American Airlines blazer, and more than a few have their AT ID visible in their ID holders for some reason, but that's frowned upon.
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My dad was with NWA and he said a lot of guys didn't like the merger. He was cool with it and he likes the Delta environment better. The ops room in DTW was funny. They had posters of pilots in uniforms stating what to wear, how to wear it, what not to wear and the NWA pilots were doodling all over them drawing swastikas and devil horns. I'm not sure what those guys did the uniforms.
jonnyjetprop
Cleared for Takeoff
I never heard anybody mention pay, so I don't really think that was an issue, most seem to have preferred the AirTran culture. The reason I won't fly SWA is mainly that I can afford not to fly SWA.
The issue surrounds the way the seniority list was integrated. The AirTran pilot got something better than a staple to the bottom (the way other Southwest integrations when), but not much better. No AirTran captain remained a captain, and based on date of hire, a friend is 600 numbers junior.
As with every merger, both sides feel slighted. It's just part of the process.
I totally get the culture thing, too, having been through an acquisition before. Every change in practice and policy feels like a repudiation of everything you did before. Hard to do that well.
The folks at Frontier desperately wanted to avoid being acquired by Southwest, and got their wish. Not so lucky for them...
The folks at Frontier desperately wanted to avoid being acquired by Southwest, and got their wish. Not so lucky for them...
denverpilot
Tied Down
Unbeliever
Pre-takeoff checklist
That's impressive since there is no Continental anymore...
Could have fooled me. And that's from someone with status on United.
The standard "joke" is that it's really Continental dba United. All the United structure is being phased out. It's still really Continental CEO, Continental head offices, Continental IT infrastructure (SHARES) etc.....
My employer loves United though, even though United really doesn't exist anymore.
--Carlos V.
Art VanDelay
Pattern Altitude
Continental head offices WERE in Houston - where are they now ?
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Before Herb retired, he sent me a birthday card every year. No other airline CEO ever did that.
Herb was special. I think the only other airline CEO who came close to achieving that level of respect and appreciation was CR Smith.
Shepherd
Final Approach
The Eastern Shuttle to Boston and DC worked the same way. Used it many times. I think it was $50.00 to either location, and they took cash or credit.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Long term, they'll be forced to. Look at American, they prided themselves on never having done it. Financially, they had to do it, to knock the union contracts back, as well as other stuff. It won't happen in the next few years, but sooner or later, they will go into Ch 11.
As someone who is looking to get into the major 121 game in the next 5 years, SWA is near the back of the list for me, for many reasons.
Slipkid65
Pre-takeoff checklist
Not much better than a staple? It was not even close to a staple for the AT folks, by any rational person's definition.
20 year AT guys were inserted into the same part of the list as 19 year SW guys and they were ratio-ed in after that.
The junior SW guys are the ones that actually did get stapled.
Starting this month, the AT folks can start bidding Capt at SW, so their seat (that 2/3 of them didn't even bring with them) loss was temporary.
True....
TheTraveler
Line Up and Wait
Before Herb retired, he sent me a birthday card every year. No other airline CEO ever did that.
I got a handwritten one from Lufthansa this year. It took a lot of miles to get it, though. LOTS of miles.
ggroves
Pattern Altitude
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Titanium
Again, you don't explain why they'll be forced to. There is no factual indicator.
Back of the list? Just remember there is a lot of misplaced hate for SWA from the older, legacy ALPA types who like to blame SWA for "lowering the bar", and their post 9/11 struggles. Both untrue. Talk to some of their pilot group.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Labor costs. They are simply going to be non-competitive with the other 121 carriers on labor costs. Once they get to where they can no longer expand (which is quickly approaching), things aren't going to be so great there.
Slipkid65
Pre-takeoff checklist
SW hasn't significantly added to the total airframes in (at least) several years, unless you count the Air Tran acquisition. The "growth" carrot has been used to pass a few concessionary side letters in the last few years, but there has not been much in the way of actual growth.
The AT acquisition, from a pilot's perspective, is not "good" expansion, especially when they took all of the pilots and only 1/3 of their airframes.
As for pilot labor costs, SW was ahead, pay wise, solely due to the post 9/11 reorganization of the other majors. As I type this, all of them are negotiating far more lucrative contract$ than SWAPA will ever be able to, or even attempt, to achieve.
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I never heard anybody mention pay, so I don't really think that was an issue, most seem to have preferred the AirTran culture. The reason I won't fly SWA is mainly that I can afford not to fly SWA.
Once you are done paying for your luggage, your beverage, your snack, and all the rest of the add on charges, SWA is the same price.KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Once SWA gets a computer system that lets them charge for bags, they would be stupid to not do it.
N747JB
Final Approach
When I am forced to fly airlines, I fly business class, and SWA doesn't offer it, it's got nothing to do with luggage charges.
Slipkid65
Pre-takeoff checklist
The AT guys were about to strike when SW bought them, but it had nothing to do with pay.
That's referred to as "Tran-nesia". I rode the parking lot bus in MCO with the AT folks for a few years, and for the most part, they were not happy with their lot in life and were always complaining about the company. It's amazing just how much better AT was........ after they were acquired by SW.
FWIW, SWA had several hundred active applications on file from AT pilots on the day the acquisition was announced. Up to 400, according to some sources. If that's the case, then up to nearly 1/4 of the AT seniority list of roughly 1700 pilots were willing to start over, at the bottom of the list, as new hires at SW.
Conversely, AT had zero apps on file from SW pilots on the same day.
Many folks had already left AT for SW before the acquisition.
SWA stock was up 103% last year...
They are doing something right.....
.......
They are doing something right.....
.......Lindberg
Final Approach
Southwest does charge for bags. They don't charge for the first two bags, but they charge for anything beyond that. They also charge for overweight bags and cargo as luggage. So I don't think it's a software issue.Lindberg
Final Approach
American was losing money for several years in a row before Chapter 11. And how many years did it turn a profit during its existence? Southwest has shown a profit every year.