Landing tips

FastEddieB said:
2) Keep the nose aligned with the runway centerline using rudder. Again, pretty straightforward.

3) Maintain the runway centerline using aileron to move the plane laterally. Nothing especially hard with that, either.
Click to expand...

Eddie, I struggled a bit with this. I'd done quite a bit of practice on maneuvers before we started working on landings, and it was already an engrained habit to apply right rudder and right aileron at the same time to stay coordinated. (It feels the same as weighting a footpeg and pushing a handlebar when leaning a motorcycle.) On landing, of course, it's essential to divorce rudder and aileron controls and use each sort of independently.

SO,.... When I realized I was having trouble with this, I asked my CFI if we could spend some time at altitude doing slips just so I could get more accustomed to using opposite rudder and aileron. We spent a while slipping both directions, then went back to the airport and did a few landings. It helped.
 
FastEddieB said:
Here's a drill that can help with #2 and #3 on my list above, and what I think CMongoose was hinting at:

Click to expand...

You have way too much fun in that thing.

Hey I noticed something in the video. Why do you have ribbons/yarn attached to the right side window? (I get why you have a yaw string on the nose, but what's the one on the right for?)
 
denverpilot said:
You have way too much fun in that thing.
Click to expand...

You think?

Hey I noticed something in the video. Why do you have ribbons/yarn attached to the right side window? (I get why you have a yaw string on the nose, but what's the one on the right for?)
Click to expand...

With no engine/prop out front to screw up airflow, I thought I could come up with a crude AOA indicator.

It worked, but the ribbon still fluttered too much to give any useful information.
 
I was at like 20 hrs and 50 landings before it clicked for me. It was the one thing keeping me from soloing.

One day we went up and just did laps around the pattern. I think I logged 15 that day.

Next lesson I soloed.
 
eman1200 said:
I take back all my landing advice after the 2 I had today.
Click to expand...
My checkride was Friday...3 of the best landings I have ever had. Today I went up for the first time as a licensed pilot just to fly the pattern, in ideal conditions, and I had probably 4 of the worst landings ever. I think I would have failed my checkride if the DPE had been along for the ride today.
 
96gs917 said:
My checkride was Friday...3 of the best landings I have ever had. Today I went up for the first time as a licensed pilot just to fly the pattern, in ideal conditions, and I had probably 4 of the worst landings ever. I think I would have failed my checkride if the DPE had been along for the ride today.
Click to expand...
Now that you have your ticket, I'm going to teach you something that CFIs never do.... from this point forward, unless you're going into a short field, EVERY landing can be a technically crappy landing. Carry a little power. Land a little long. Touch down a little soft.

Practice makes perfect and all that, but I much prefer basically treating every landing like a soft field landing, and so do my passengers.

I still practice landing precisely on a spot of my choosing from time to time to keep the muscle memory alive, but it's about smoothness and comfort now, instead of landing within 6 inches of my chosen point on a 5,000 foot runway.
 
ircphoenix said:
Now that you have your ticket, I'm going to teach you something that CFIs never do.... from this point forward, unless you're going into a short field, EVERY landing can be a technically crappy landing. Carry a little power. Land a little long. Touch down a little soft.

Practice makes perfect and all that, but I much prefer basically treating every landing like a soft field landing, and so do my passengers.

I still practice landing precisely on a spot of my choosing from time to time to keep the muscle memory alive, but it's about smoothness and comfort now, instead of landing within 6 inches of my chosen point on a 5,000 foot runway.
Click to expand...

Some of us land on shorter runways regularly....

If you're good, you can make a landing short AND soft. Sometimes even power off, too.

Just a goal to work toward. No landing is absolutely perfect, but it is possible to grease short field landings.

Maybe go try some landings at Fallbrook. 2100 feet isn't that short. Or at least take a few on 29L at KTOA. 3000 is already pretty long, though.

You're going to have to have at least a few ACS landings at specific times every two years, or whenever you get another certificate. Flight reviews and all that....
 
MAKG1 said:
Some of us land on shorter runways regularly....

If you're good, you can make a landing short AND soft. Sometimes even power off, too.

Just a goal to work toward. No landing is absolutely perfect, but it is possible to grease short field landings.

Maybe go try some landings at Fallbrook. 2100 feet isn't that short. Or at least take a few on 29L at KTOA. 3000 is already pretty long, though.

You're going to have to have at least a few ACS landings at specific times every two years, or whenever you get another certificate. Flight reviews and all that....
Click to expand...

Yeah. And like I said, I still do them on occasion to make sure I CAN... but it's like a final exam in school... you memorize it all to pass... then you either never use it, or you retain the useful bits for when you need to.
 
I had about 25-30 landings when I got so frustrated with not being able to land properly that I was seriously considering of stopping my training all together. I was so disappointed. Then my CFI was out of town and an ATP friend offered to go up with me. I did 8 landings with him, all of them by the book. That's when it clicked for me. I realized that it wasn't my "bad" landings but my CFI's perfectionism that drove me mad. Don't worry, it will come! Maybe not for another 5-10 more landings but it's not a race!
 
Pnwannabe2 said:
Thanks for all the replies. I think I might be trying to hard to keep the wings level and steering with rudder. Making small coordinated turns to stay lined up is probably what I need to focus on. My CFI has a teaching style that works great for me. He makes a lot of sense, but most lesson debriefs are "great flying today! Perfect job on x, y, z, but you gotta work on those landings, gotta stay lined up, gotta stop scrubbing rubber off the tires, etc". Made me wonder if I'm behind the curve. I feel better now, and realize how green I am. I'll get there eventually. Can't wait to fly next week and continue to improve.
Click to expand...

Great attitude you have! That's what's most important keep trying to learn. I've got close to 500 landings in a 172 and can tell you I still have plenty to work on!

I noticed one thing in your post that has me a bit concerned. You mentioned you are focusing on keeping wings level during landing. That right there is a huge issue and probably why you are landing off the center line. While landing there is always wind--unless you are flying in a dome or a rare calm day. If you are trying to keep the wings level you are likely not correcting for the wind and that makes an enormous difference. You should become good friends with the wind sock, find the direction of the wind and then get a mental picture of how the wind will impact your plane on landing. That is the absolute best way to prevent drift on landing.

Also, as you get more experience you will be able to feel the wind. On approach, the plane will point nose into the wind so you can get a decent sense of wind direction from that.
 
jspilot said:
Also, as you get more experience you will be able to feel the wind. On approach, the plane will point nose into the wind so you can get a decent sense of wind direction from that.
Click to expand...

Not to confuse the poor guy, but...

No, it really won't. There is no weathervaning tendency acting on an aircraft in flight. The only way it will point into the wind is if the pilot takes positive action to do so. Agreed that correcting for drift becomes automatic after a while, but it doesn't happen by itself.

If that's what you were implying. My apologies in advance if I misread your advice.
 
FastEddieB said:
Not to confuse the poor guy, but...

No, it really won't. There is no weathervaning tendency acting on an aircraft in flight. The only way it will point into the wind is if the pilot takes positive action to do so. Agreed that correcting for drift becomes automatic after a while, but it doesn't happen by itself.

If that's what you were implying. My apologies in advance if I misread your advice.
Click to expand...


True, but if you're crabbing on final you know where the wind is coming from.

The problem I have landing at X04 is that wind direction changes in the final 20', and the wind gusts and swirls.
 
Get your instructor and go out practicing flying down the runway at 100' or so without landing. Keep on the centerline and then work up to holding it in the slip so the nose is also pointed straight ahead. Once you've mastered that attitude, just a bit of reduction in power will put you on the runway nicely.
 
Stick with it. At some point, it will click. And from there it will become second nature. You just need to keep going. In the beginning, I was always right of centerline even on calm days. And ballooning. For me, I think it clicked around 100-150 landings. I have 504 now, and honestly it's routine. I run my checklist/flow and then just put it down. Of course, there's the ocasional clunker but most are smooth and ALL are safe. With more experience, even crosswind shouldn't stress you out anymore.
 
Mike Smith said:
I can only tell you what I do. Once on final I pick my landing spot, glue it to that place in the windscreen. I keep it there with pitch and power while maintaining proper airspeed. Honestly, you just don't have enough experience, it will come. As far as side load goes, while it is important to try to be on centerline, sometimes you just aren't, landing a little left or right is not a deal breaker except on the check ride.
Click to expand...

I call my students that consistently land left of centerline "English drivers." Also remember that as you increase pitch in the flare at low airspeed in the landing configuration that you'll experience the same increased left turning tendency that you experienced in slow flight training. You need more right rudder.
 
FastEddieB said:
Not to confuse the poor guy, but...

No, it really won't. There is no weathervaning tendency acting on an aircraft in flight. The only way it will point into the wind is if the pilot takes positive action to do so. Agreed that correcting for drift becomes automatic after a while, but it doesn't happen by itself.

If that's what you were implying. My apologies in advance if I misread your advice.
Click to expand...

I meant that the plane will crab into the wind so that will give you a better sense of wind direction. I guess I just used laymen terms of "pointing" instead of crabbing and that caused some confusion. Hopefully though the idea of the plane crabbing into the wind gets the visual picture of where the wind is pointing.
 
My point was YOU have to manipulate the controls to establish the crab angle you want. I thought your post "the plane will crab into the wind" implied that the plane would kind of establish its own crab angle and you could determine the wind from that.

Sorry if I got that wrong.
 
FastEddieB said:
My point was YOU have to manipulate the controls to establish the crab angle you want. I thought your post "the plane will crab into the wind" implied that the plane would kind of establish its own crab angle and you could determine the wind from that.

Sorry if I got that wrong.
Click to expand...
It sure does seem automatic to those of us who have been doing it a while. But you're right; it can't be.
 
The wind pushes the tail and points the nose into the wind like a weathervane. In that sense the plane does find it's crab angle.
 
citizen5000 said:
The wind pushes the tail and points the nose into the wind like a weathervane. In that sense the plane does find it's crab angle.
Click to expand...
So, where exactly is the pivot point for this weathervane?

I've certainly had planes weathervane with the nosegear lifted in a crosswind soft field takeoff, but while airborne, you get a drift.
 
I think you instinctively crab into the wind when lining up on final. So it might feel like weathervaning.
 
MAKG1 said:
So, where exactly is the pivot point for this weathervane?

I've certainly had planes weathervane with the nosegear lifted in a crosswind soft field takeoff, but while airborne, you get a drift.
Click to expand...
I guess you could think of it as a weathervane attached to the aircraft at the pivot point wherever the center of the yaw axis is. You align this mobile pivot point down the extended centerline by banking. But I get your point, a weathervane is fixed to the ground and finds direction based on that and the wind. The airplane is working within the air mass.
 
Over the last 4 lessons, I've improved my landings a lot. Next lesson is pre-solo. Oddly enough, having a crosswind has helped a lot. Calm wind landings are still a bit shaky. Low approaches and requesting a full hour of T&Gs was good advice. Also got the written knocked out this morning. Onward and upward! Thanks again...
 
flyingron said:
Get your instructor and go out practicing flying down the runway at 100' or so without landing. Keep on the centerline and then work up to holding it in the slip so the nose is also pointed straight ahead. Once you've mastered that attitude, just a bit of reduction in power will put you on the runway nicely.
Click to expand...

Did that with all of my paraplegic students...works like a dream. A hundred feet is too high, though....ten feet does the job.

Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top