Landing off center line in high winds

Challenged

Challenged

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Challenged
If you have a strong crosswind, do you think it's wise to land off of center, in order to give yourself more room in case you're pushed to the side during the flare?
 
While that might work out for you on wide pavement it doesn’t help you develop the skills you’ll need in dealing with a crosswind on a narrow strip that is lined with objects that can bend metal.
 
No. Centerline always as much as possible. As 'Dog points out, many GA runways are very narrow so even if your home airport has say, 150' wide runways, strive for the centerline. You'll appreciate doing so someday.
 
mscard88 said:
No. Centerline always as much as possible. As 'Dog points out, many GA runways are very narrow so even if your home airport has say, 150' wide runways, strive for the centerline. You'll appreciate doing so someday.
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WTF are you doing agreeing with me?! You’ll tarnish my reputation even more than I have already. :mad:
 
If its really wide maybe yeah. But for PPL training, stay in the middle. Commercial and high power/complex are where you can fool around with that. And other fun stuff like landing with a crosswind on one wheel, giving it some small to medium power all the way down the runway, then takeoff.
 
How will you determine, in advance, what errors you're going to make in the flare so you'll know if you should offset upwind or downwind from the centerline?

If you fail to keep your alignment (rudder) the aircraft will be 'crabbed' into the wind at touchdown and the wheels will take you toward the upwind side of the runway (into the crosswind) so you'll need to plan your touchdown on the downwind side of the centerline.

If, instead, your mistake will be failing to correct your drift (ailerons) you'll end up touching down downwind from your (left/right) aim point so you'll want to plan to touchdown on the upwind side of the centerline.
 
You manipulate the rudder and elevator in reaction to the side to side movement, crab and wing low movements of the airplane. Sort of like correcting for the wiggle movements of a rock buggy on a windy narrow road. Only its a plane.

But you are right, gusty wind is the hardest thing. Sometimes you gotta go around. Sometimes you gotta go somewhere else.
 
When I was a new pilot, I was landing at Langley AFB in a 19 kt crosswind. I lined up about 20 degrees off axis during landing. Now it's all about the centerline.
 
It’s perfectly okay to land off center so long as you don’t crash.
 
On the one hand, no. You should be able to put the plane where you want it. If unable in a given wind, don’t fly or land elsewhere.

On the other hand, one can decrease the crosswind component a bit by landing diagonally across the runway. With a strong enough crosswind and a slow landing speed, combined with a wide runway, it really seems to make a difference. I use that technique rarely, but it does come in handy on occasion.
 
The OP wasn't asking about landing off center as a common practice, but rather during high/gusty crosswinds. If I was certain that the wind direction was reliable and stable, but a high crosswind component and severe gusts, heck yes I'd land upwind of center line. Doing so on the rare occasion when such conditions exist isn't going to suddenly make you unable to hold center line in normal wind conditions, and it will give you some margin of error in case the gusts are more sudden and stronger than anticipated.

Now, I'm sure everyone's going to jump on me and tell me how stupid and dangerous I am.
 
Larry in TN said:
How will you determine, in advance, what errors you're going to make in the flare so you'll know if you should offset upwind or downwind from the centerline?

If you fail to keep your alignment (rudder) the aircraft will be 'crabbed' into the wind at touchdown and the wheels will take you toward the upwind side of the runway (into the crosswind) so you'll need to plan your touchdown on the downwind side of the centerline.

If, instead, your mistake will be failing to correct your drift (ailerons) you'll end up touching down downwind from your (left/right) aim point so you'll want to plan to touchdown on the upwind side of the centerline.
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So average it out and put one main wheel down on the upwind side of the center line, and the other main on the downwind side. No problem.
 
I can’t get a clear mental image of the crosswind wanting to blow the plane downwind across the runway after touchdown. Seems like the friction of the tires on the runway would make that an unlikely proposition.

I think I’ve more often seen a gusty crosswind weathervane the plane after touchdown and point it into the wind. Hence making it more likely to swerve and leave the runway from the upwind edge.
 
Especially on a dryish surface
 
I'm with the crowd on landing on the centerline.
 
Landed at JZI the other day. Winds VRB 300-360 21 gusting 32. Landing 27. Tried and tried but couldn’t make centerline.
 
FastEddieB said:
I can’t get a clear mental image of the crosswind wanting to blow the plane downwind across the runway after touchdown. Seems like the friction of the tires on the runway would make that an unlikely proposition.

I think I’ve more often seen a gusty crosswind weathervane the plane after touchdown and point it into the wind. Hence making it more likely to swerve and leave the runway from the upwind edge.
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Heck, just land on the ramp. It’s tough to taxi in a high crosswind anyway. :)
 
If it's physically hard to push the stick or yoke over into the wind after you land as the other wheel comes down, it means you have to RELAX the muscles in your arm.
 
FastEddieB said:
I can’t get a clear mental image of the crosswind wanting to blow the plane downwind across the runway after touchdown. Seems like the friction of the tires on the runway would make that an unlikely proposition.
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J-3 Cub 3-point once you reach a legit 25KT straight across. All depends on the airplane.
 
SkyDog58 said:
WTF are you doing agreeing with me?! You’ll tarnish my reputation even more than I have already. :mad:
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That would be exceptionally difficult if not impossible...
 
T-38 x-wind procedures call for purposefully landing on the upwind side of the runway (for us that is considered anything greater than 15kt x-wind component). Landing on centerline is not a religion all flying communities adhere to. There is value in landing upwind in certain applications. The T-38, along with many century series, and even some modern fighters, can't be landed wing-low. They have to touchdown in a crab. That means that you will skid and weather-vane by design until slow enough for tire friction from nosewheel to aid in directional control.

In theory, if you're skidding in a GA plane on touchdown w/ full control deflection you have exceeded the demonstrated x-wind component. But you know what they say, any landing you walk away with.....
 
Moriarty, NM.

Strong right crosswind. I landed roughly like this:

8434497277_61534ce6fc.jpg


I had even considered the diagonal taxiway. Bear in mind the Sky Arrow can touch down about 40 kts. In a strong wind it can feel like it’s barely above walking speed.

I mentioned it at the glider school, they said they often landed thusly in winds like that:

8435592310_f7d9d426bf.jpg


About :50 in is an example of the angling final I’ll use on occasion:

 
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FastEddieB said:
Strong right crosswind. I landed roughly like this:
About :50 in is an example of the angling final I’ll use on occasion:
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I like this concept...
Just like, "If you don't like the weather, wait a few minutes, it will change..."
If you don't like the Airport's runways... Create your own...
 
Most here certainly know this, but at a nontowered airport there’s no regulation that says you can’t land on a taxiway or ramp or wherever you like.

Just beware the catchall if something were to go horribly wrong...


91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
(a)Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

Note: it specifically does not say you can’t endanger your own life!
 
hindsight2020 said:
T-38 x-wind procedures call for purposefully landing on the upwind side of the runway (for us that is considered anything greater than 15kt x-wind component). Landing on centerline is not a religion all flying communities adhere to. There is value in landing upwind in certain applications. The T-38, along with many century series, and even some modern fighters, can't be landed wing-low. They have to touchdown in a crab. That means that you will skid and weather-vane by design until slow enough for tire friction from nosewheel to aid in directional control.

In theory, if you're skidding in a GA plane on touchdown w/ full control deflection you have exceeded the demonstrated x-wind component. But you know what they say, any landing you walk away with.....
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That makes sense. I was going to say that the one airplane that I’ve flown that you’d want to consider landing upwind in a strong crosswind is an Ercoupe which also lands in a crab.

Same is true with crosswind takeoff. You line up on the upwind side and hope you get into the air before you get pushed off the downwind side.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Fearless Tower said:
Same is true with crosswind takeoff. You line up on the upwind side and hope you get into the air before you get pushed off the downwind side.
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Interestingly, I would line up with the downwind corner and take off angling into the wind.

I remember doing that at Henrietta, OK (with tumbleweed blowing across the runway!) and at Sedona, AZ. It really does make a difference.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Hey now, who asked you? But at least I don’t have you agreeing with me. That would be more than anyone’s reputation could withstand.
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Well then you have nothing to worry about since you don’t even have a reputation.
 
FastEddieB said:
Interestingly, I would line up with the downwind corner and take off angling into the wind.

I remember doing that at Henrietta, OK (with tumbleweed blowing across the runway!) and at Sedona, AZ. It really does make a difference.
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Lining up on the downwind corner angling into the wind is exactly what I do in tailwheels.

The Ercoupe is a very different animal. With no rudder pedals, the airplane is designed with the yoke controlling the nosewheel steering. So if you add aileron into the wind, you are simultaneously turning the nose into the wind which can create problems if you start out pointing at the upwind side of the runway.
 
Being upwind of the centerline is MUCH better than letting it drift downwind for certain. I vote for centerline, but with a bias toward upwind side.
 
FastEddieB said:
Interestingly, I would line up with the downwind corner and take off angling into the wind.

I remember doing that at Henrietta, OK (with tumbleweed blowing across the runway!) and at Sedona, AZ. It really does make a difference.
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It really only makes a difference if your anticipated take-off run is so short that you can take-off 30-45° off of runway alignment. Most of the time your likely to get 10° or less, meaning that the resultant crosswind component is negligible.
 
Brad Z said:
It really only makes a difference if your anticipated take-off run is so short that you can take-off 30-45° off of runway alignment. Most of the time your likely to get 10° or less, meaning that the resultant crosswind component is negligible.
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The part you are missing is that with the technique Fast Eddie is describing, you aren’t tracking in a straight line. It’s a curve. You start out pointing maybe 20 degrees or more off runway heading where you need it the most (low speed/less rudder effectiveness). As you pick up speed, you reduce the x-wind heading correction and begin to track centerline. If done right, you start out on the downwind corner, pointed at the upwind runway edge, but never actually get past centerline. It most definitely helps if you have to takeoff in a tailwheel in a strong x-wind.
 
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