Landing Denver... KAPA?

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Martymccasland

Pre-takeoff checklist
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M.McCasland
Heading to Denver mid-week for a last-minute ski trip. KAPA (Centennial) looks like the place to park to me; however, I thought I'd reach out for advice...
 
BJC is probably marginally closer to the slopes (depending on where you are going). Good services at either place.
 
TAC Air at APA always gave me first class service and had reasonable fuel prices; I'd stop there again in a heartbeat. The drive time I would think would be a toss-up, but BJC sure looks closer.
 
I used to get into both often but haven't been to BJC for a couple of years. I agree TAC Air at APA has been good for me. I think either would be fine for your mission.
 
TAC air at KAPA...altho BJC appears closer, you can get on C470 much easier which means saving about 20-30 minutes or more travel. Fuel cheaper at TACair, people really great.
 
APA was pretty straightforward just write down taxi instruction. I went to X jet twice, excellent service.
 
I would agree with APA. One minor word of warning if you haven't been into APA previously. Make sure you follow their "non-standard" procedures. You will stay on ground until you are ready to go and run-up complete. Call that on ground and they will switch you to tower. Monitor tower and they will call you. It sounds like a minor thing but it sometimes trips people up and depending on how busy they are, and APA can get pretty busy, they have little patience for folks who don't follow procedures.

Carl
 
Don't forget to take time for a meal at The Perfect Landing... Great food!
 
Everybody covered all of it. The non-standard procedures are all on the ATIS which makes it last about half an hour. ;) (Plan ahead if all you wanted was weather... tune in early...)

TacAir self-serve is cheaper than full-serve but if they're parking the plane, etc... I would let them fuel it. Up to you on how many pennies you need to save. Give them a ring ahead of time. DenverJet is too notch too but spendy.

Avoid C-470 or any Metro area highway like the plague around rush-hour. They'll just be jammed and will waste an additional hour going nowhere. Surface streets are no better.

Where ya going skiing?? Have fun!
 
denverpilot said:
Avoid C-470 or any Metro area highway like the plague around rush-hour. They'll just be jammed and will waste an additional hour going nowhere. Surface streets are no better.
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If you are planning arrival during rush-hour then BJC will get you to the mountains sooner. South on Wadsworth to I-70 and head west. Easy peasy and Wadsworth will be a little slow but I-70 opens up at Wads.
 
Immelman said:
TAC Air at APA always gave me first class service and had reasonable fuel prices; I'd stop there again in a heartbeat.
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+1 a dozen times over. Fantastic FBO. Hertz colocated with TacAir.
 
denverpilot said:
Avoid C-470 or any Metro area highway like the plague around rush-hour. They'll just be jammed and will waste an additional hour going nowhere. Surface streets are no better.

Where ya going skiing?? Have fun!
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We're heading to Keystone. Thinking about just doing Xmas lunch and taking off. (Santa is bringing lift tickets as an Xmas morning present -- and stuffing them in a boxcar of a Lionel train going around and around under the tree...) We 90% sure just leave here (Little Rock) around 3pm, be in Denver by 6pm local time, get motel on the west side of town, and head to Keystone 1st thing Thursday morning...
 
Martymccasland said:
We're heading to Keystone. Thinking about just doing Xmas lunch and taking off. (Santa is bringing lift tickets as an Xmas morning present -- and stuffing them in a boxcar of a Lionel train going around and around under the tree...) We 90% sure just leave here (Little Rock) around 3pm, be in Denver by 6pm local time, get motel on the west side of town, and head to Keystone 1st thing Thursday morning...
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Hm...I wouldn't mind driving over to the west side for a welcome-to-Colorado dinner. Your best bet for hotels are either in Golden or the Federal Center. Both should have lots available since School of Mines (in Golden) is on break. The Feds may be working but most contractors aren't and almost no one schedules serious meetings this week.

You can find all the restaurant chains on Wadsworth (N-S road by the Federal Center). Be warned that some might be closed on Wednesday.

What are you flying and are you parking at KAPA? I think Perfect Landing is booked solid but there's a good chinese restaurant not far from the airport that will be open (Hoong's).
 
+1 on what everyone said.

I got my PPL at KAPA and spent lots of time at Tac Air. Just remember the non-standard radio procedures when talking to ground and tower on the way out.
 
mcoflyer said:
+1 on what everyone said.

I got my PPL at KAPA and spent lots of time at Tac Air. Just remember the non-standard radio procedures when talking to ground and tower on the way out.
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Or, at any airport... just remember to listen to the ATIS while avoiding expectation bias (btw, KAPA is not the only airport with this procedure*)

*Edit - if the mco in your handle refers to Orlando international, you probably know of at least one other already, unless it changed in the past few years.
 
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Give yourself at least five minutes to get the overly-long rediculous ATIS with a two minute rundown of the special procedures that should just be put in a damn permanent NOTAM. Tune in somewhere near the Kansas line, you'll get through the ATIS maybe three times before you make it to Denver. Hen heh.

(Kidding but not really. Consider yourself lucky if you're inbound and only want the friggin winds and you happen to tune in right when the weather is at on the recording. BTW a tip... If you're really just wanting weather, go to the AWOS first. Then the ATIS. The tower is very open to "We are still picking up the ATIS." during initial call up and you'll get it and be ready with the letter by the time they talk to you again at whatever reporting point they give you. They know how ridiculously long it is. ;) )
 
denverpilot said:
Give yourself at least five minutes to get the overly-long rediculous ATIS with a two minute rundown of the special procedures that should just be put in a damn permanent NOTAM. Tune in somewhere near the Kansas line, you'll get through the ATIS maybe three times before you make it to Denver. Hen heh.

(Kidding but not really. Consider yourself lucky if you're inbound and only want the friggin winds and you happen to tune in right when the weather is at on the recording. BTW a tip... If you're really just wanting weather, go to the AWOS first. Then the ATIS. The tower is very open to "We are still picking up the ATIS." during initial call up and you'll get it and be ready with the letter by the time they talk to you again at whatever reporting point they give you. They know how ridiculously long it is. ;) )
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Our trip to and from turned out fine. I could pick up the ATIS 80-90 miles out and listened to the "reading" fine. Not only was the ATIS long like you said, there were a few obstruction warnings for things like cranes on there as well -- stuff that's normally on a NOTAM. I was half-expecting to start hearing tower lighting outages being read off by the time we got to the end of the longest ATIS I've ever heard -- including the lengthy ATIS at my home airport due to a large runway renovation and several taxiways being closed.

Leaving was interesting for this low-lander. We had the Bonanza at gross. I rolled out to the runway and held the brakes, went to full throttle, and leaned to around 1275-1325 EGT (the temps I usually see on full power near sea-level climb / picked up that tip reading the Mike Busch and John Deakin articles). Departing KAPA, we take about 2600 feet to get wheels-up, then are only climbing about 450 fpm... I just held Vx to 1000 AGL then pushed over to Vy and continued the climb.... VSI rose to about 750 fpm and we slipped on up... But it was interesting for a while there as the climb rate was considerably less than I'm used to. My last high altitude take off was Santa Fe but it was not as noticeable due to a 30-35 knot wind right down the runway -- causing a sight picture much more like what I'm used to seeing.

Then, we made it back to Little Rock about 15 minutes before midnight on Dec 31st! I TOTALLY WASN"T EXPECTING TO FLY THROUGH GUNFIRE! When we landed, it sounded like Beirut! The linemen suggested taking cover due to so much lead being shot up in the air -- and it, of course, had to come back down somewhere! Will make sure to not fly in the last 90 minutes of New Years Eve again!
 
Heh. Cool. We had runway construction NOTAMs on top of that ridiculously long ATIS last summer and they're going to rip up 10/28 this Spring.

I really should record the thing and share it with the gang here when that happens. Might take 30 minutes. LOL!

High DA is always entertaining at gross! And I see you've ALSO done the 30 gusting 35 Santa Fe thing!? Haha.

I've done that in Santa Fe and ABQ both, and I swear to God they only turn on the wind machine for my departures down there. Never doing it on arrival, and never in the TAF. Hahaha! If it isn't wind, there's a Coyote chasing the airplane alongside the runway. Had that once too.

New Mexico charm. Honestly it dues grow on you if you don't mind the sandblasted paint. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
I've done that in Santa Fe and ABQ both, and I swear to God they only turn on the wind machine for my departures down there. Never doing it on arrival, and never in the TAF. Hahaha! If it isn't wind, there's a Coyote chasing the airplane alongside the runway. Had that once too.
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It was the same for me: Arrival at Santa Fe was the usual 5-10 knots that's normal anywhere. We go to leave and I do a double-take with the ATIS. 'Rarely hear 35 knots apart from something like a squall line passing through...

Needless to say, with surface winds that high, I didn't get anywhere near the cumulo-granite on the way out...
 
RE: long ATIS recordings

I've been experiencing recitations of all the obstacle info at more than one place. And I agree it's annoying when all you want to hear is the weather and runway details and what letter they are referencing. Flying into KRVS near Tulsa last week, I swear the recording was 45 seconds of useful weather/runway info, and 2:15 of every tall structure in the area.

I wonder what's going on around this land that's making them record the obstacles versus just saying something like "be sure to be familiar with all obstacle NOTAMS".
 
I would like to get out to Denver in the near future, but I have to admit I am a little worried about how crazy KAPA looks. Other than the non-standard procedures, is landing and getting out of there pretty straightforward? It appears to be one of the busiest GA airports out there, and I am a bit nervous about heading there. I fly out of KCID (class C) and have flown to a few decent sized class D's like KDPA, but I wouldn't call any of them "busy".
 
kujo806 said:
I would like to get out to Denver in the near future, but I have to admit I am a little worried about how crazy KAPA looks. Other than the non-standard procedures, is landing and getting out of there pretty straightforward? It appears to be one of the busiest GA airports out there, and I am a bit nervous about heading there. I fly out of KCID (class C) and have flown to a few decent sized class D's like KDPA, but I wouldn't call any of them "busy".
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Not overly crazy in my opinion... Might get something like a Plains 5 departure heading back East.. Or, if you decline the procedures, just some airways before being released direct... The only non-standard thing I experienced was the seemingly 10 min ATIS... Other than that, it's pretty straight-forward.
 
Learned to fly at BJC and APA. Have been back a few times (once to rent and in my open plane). No big problems. Even DEN approach isn't bad on transitions.
 
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