Landing at closed and "abandoned" airfields?

James331

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James331
So there are some decent old abandoned airfields that Id like to check out, just curious about landing there presuming it can be done safely, found this on AVweb, thoughts?

Would this be a catch all 91.13?

What's Wrong With Landing on a Closed Runway?

By Paul Bertorelli | July 12, 2011

Now that we've once again taken Sen. James Inhofe to task for landing on a closed runway last fall in Port Isabel, Texas, it's worth asking this question: What's so wrong with doing this in the first place? The simple answer is nothing at all, as long as no one is endangered and/ or complains. I think there's a right way and a wrong way to use a closed runway, when necessary, and I'll give you my spiel on what I think is the right way. You can offer yours.

After the Inhofe incident, I compared notes with a friend who had a run-in with the FAA over taking off on a closed runway. We had similar outcomes, but he got a visit from the FAA and I didn't. First my incident. This occurred about 15 years ago, when I was flying a lot of charters to Cape Cod and the islands. I was waiting at the run-up area at an uncontrolled field copying an IFR clearance. As I read it back, I looked up to see a Cessna 210 flash by in front of me with its gear up. Before I could reach the mic button to warn the pilot, he was already skidding.

Just as an aside, if you've never seen a gear-up landing up close, there are several things about it that are surprising. First, there were no sparks, just a little plume of broken plastic and wires from the antennas. Second, imagine how long you think the slide will be, cut that in half and it will still be shorter than you'd guess. I'd say that 210 stopped in less than 100 feet. Last, the shock factor: There were two people in the airplane and what seemed like several minutes passed before for the doors opened. The pilot, whom I knew casually, later told me he just couldn't fathom how or why the runway was six inches below his feet. Nonetheless, I was now presented with a crumped runway and passengers awaiting pickup in Nantucket. There was enough equipment and activity on the runway to make a takeoff questionable.

This happened on a weekend and the airport manager had to be summoned. When he arrived and after he got recovery operations started, I asked if he would object if I taxied down the runway a safe distance beyond the beached 210 for a takeoff. He ruminated on this for a moment and replied he would have no problem, but it would be at my risk. Technically, I didn't really have to ask. There's no FAR against taking off or landing on a closed runway or one occupied by a disabled airplane, as long as it's done safely. But frankly, I didn't want to get in anyone's face on a technicality and if he would have said no, I wouldn't have taken off. Airport managers and runway maintenance people can be territorial about their pavement and, honestly, if there's the slightest safety issue, I'll give them the courtesy. No trip is that important, even a charter.

My friend's experience was different. The runway was undergoing maintenance at one end, but there was room to take off in the remaining length. He also asked for permission, but when that was denied by the work crew, he took off anyway…carefully and with enough margin not to affect the repair work. The crew complained, contacted the FAA and my friend got a visit from a couple of inspectors. After an interview, they determined there was no careless and reckless behavior and thus no violation. End of story.

So what you have here is two approaches to the same problem. I know the FARs pretty well and knew I could take off legally no matter what the airport manager said. But I also know human nature and given a choice, I'll take a courteous solution over an edgy one that I know will ruffle feathers. It just makes more sense to me. Good citizen and all that. Airports have enough infantile feuds going on without starting more.

Having said that, I have landed on X'd runways several times. At uncontrolled airports, it's a non-issue. Just make sure the runway is safe and there's nobody on it who you could endanger or, yes, offend. At a towered airport, ATC can't legally refuse permission to land on or otherwise use a closed runway, but will say, "landing is at your own risk."

But then that's true of all landings, They just don't bother to tell you.
 
That's the sucky part of having the same permission slip for your job and hobby. Since I don't fly for a living anymore if I got a 90 day sit down, other then ego, no big deal really. Hopefully it would be during winter. I think you have the right idea using floats to fool around, the faa doesn't care much about whether a ninny outlawed any particular lake.
 
We had an instance at my local airport years ago where a guy landed on a closed runway. We only have one runway and he flew over the X's and somehow missed equipment and tools that were all over the runway. They had repaved the runway, but had torn out the cross taxiways and there was no way to taxi off of the runway. The airport was open, but we were landing on the main taxiway while this work was going on. I walked out and helped him move the tools, etc. and advised him to take off immediately. He chose not to, saying he was going to lunch with his Grandson and since the runway was closed, it couldn't hurt to leave his plane there.

What he didn't think about was some pilot decided to be a jerk and called the police saying they thought a plane may have crashed since it was on the runway that was closed. The police came out and called the FAA. I told the police the guy was fine and there was no crash, so they left. When the guy showed up, I told him to pack up and get out of there quickly. Sure enough after he left, the police showed back up saying the FAA had called them back and wanted the N-Number and type of aircraft. I may or may not have told him I thought it was a Piper of some sort, when it was a Bellanca Viking! Also couldn't seem to remember the N-Number.
 
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We had pilots land at APG from time to time. I remember a student pilot landing on our closed runway. She was lucky she didn't end up in the trench which was why that runway was closed. In addition to being a military field, the airport is in the middle of a usually active Restricted area and a class D.
 
I always thought if there was a NOTAM saying the runway was closed it was a violation to use it. Not saying I'm right, that's just what I thought.
 
The article deals with closed, not abandoned.

While there is no FAR against landing on an abandoned airfield, it can very easily be trespassing, even if no one and nothing is endangered. If the airfield used to be a public use airport, it isn't public use anymore and may be privately owned.

And it may not be a safe thing. MANY abandoned airfields have equipment or vehicles on the runway. It's not at all unusual for an abandoned runway to become a construction site or a race track, or even a parking lot. The one closest to my house has a soccer field on the end. And only 800 feet of the runway is left, and it's obstructed by a propane service, so you WILL overrun it. If you don't mow down all the RC fliers that like to use it.
 
Could you get charged with trespassing if you had an emergency and landed in a field?
 
It's like landing off field. You have to be able to SEE the condition of the field. Even then, its risky. I know someone that surveyed the field on an overfly, landed and there was a roll of barbed wire he didnt see right next to where he landed. It was just luck he missed it. It would have pretty much wrecked his airplane. Good way to put some holes in your airplane!
 
Could you get charged with trespassing if you had an emergency and landed in a field?

You betcha and they may not let you fly out again. We had a flight school guy land at a private ski resort strip up in Colorado. He claimed after the fact that it was an engine issue, but the place wouldn't let him leave. My flight instructor and another "mechanic" went up to "check the problem out." and managed to bamboozle their way into the air and got it out there.
 
Could you get charged with trespassing if you had an emergency and landed in a field?


In theory you could get charged, but I think it would be very unlikely to be convicted of trespassing once they understood you had an emergency.
 
If it's no longer an airport, you'd have to have permission from the landowner to purposely land there.

It's not like an emergency or glider outlanding where there isn't much choice of continuing the flight.
 
If it's no longer an airport, you'd have to have permission from the landowner to purposely land there.

It's not like an emergency or glider outlanding where there isn't much choice of continuing the flight.

What if it isn't posted No Trespassing?:lol: Only half joking some of you guys like to make believe there are more rules then actually exist.
 
I landed on the four sixes ranch private strip once because it's in the middle of nowhere and my fuel was about out.

The 6666 ranch empire is so big, they have their own Sherrif. He was mad and said I couldn't land there, but he didn't press charges.

I told him "it was either land here on this perfect paved strip, or out there" as I pointed to all the mesquite and scrub brush around us.
 
Local airport has a closed runway, marked with big yellow "X"s.
While the runway is still in good condition, what is not visible from the air is the chain-link fence that bisects it into two halves.

Could get messy if one decided to check it out.
 
So we're saying it's basically a backcountry/float type arrangement, ask the owner, do a good site survey and if both the above are OK, you're good?
 
Can't be any worse than an air traffic controller vectoring you to a closed airport on Long Island that had been developed into an industrial park with no place to land.

Happened last summer.
 
Some states like Colorado there are no requirments for posting. If it's private land and you are on it without permission, it's trespassing. I think you can walk or drive up to the front door if it's NOT posted. But coming in over a non-posted fence, that is trespassing in Colorado. Not that it's enforced that much...

It depends on STATE LAW and that one is different from state to state.
 
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I don't know why not. I land on my friends property all the time and it's not even an airstrip!

So we're saying it's basically a backcountry/float type arrangement, ask the owner, do a good site survey and if both the above are OK, you're good?
 
Quod est necessarium est licitum.

Yeah... Except I'd wager right now you and I are breaking some law right now, that's what happens when your country has more laws and "officials" than we have common sense.
 
So we're saying it's basically a backcountry/float type arrangement, ask the owner, do a good site survey and if both the above are OK, you're good?

Correct. It's not an airport, it's just land.
 
I landed on the four sixes ranch private strip once because it's in the middle of nowhere and my fuel was about out.

The 6666 ranch empire is so big, they have their own Sherrif. He was mad and said I couldn't land there, but he didn't press charges.

I told him "it was either land here on this perfect paved strip, or out there" as I pointed to all the mesquite and scrub brush around us.

I've been in the 6666 strip... Cool operation.
Heard a rumor how it got its name, but it could just be legend...
I heard they won the land from the Indians in a poker game. The winning hand of course was four 6's.
 
Can anyone quote a regulation that requires you to take off or land on a runway (at the part 91 level) ?

or prohibits taking off and landing on a taxiway?

The Cape Cod charter guy who was featured early in thread surely had something in his 135 op spec.. but for mere mortals like us.. not sure what the fuss is about, provided you aren't reckless..
 
Can anyone quote a regulation that requires you to take off or land on a runway (at the part 91 level) ?

or prohibits taking off and landing on a taxiway?

The Cape Cod charter guy who was featured early in thread surely had something in his 135 op spec.. but for mere mortals like us.. not sure what the fuss is about, provided you aren't reckless..

Nothing other than the normal careless and reckless operation. ATC even has procedures if the management has closed the airport. They just tell you it's at your own risk.

My favorite story was years ago an airport was notam'd until 4PM for runway work (I think they were repainting the markings). At 4:01, a bonanza whips out on the runway for takeoff narrowly avoiding hitting the worker removing the large X from the end of the runway....yeah he got written up. No matter what the NOTAM says, the airport ain't open until the guy gets done removing the X from the runway.
 
There is an old abandoned airfield near where I live, and it's been converted to a drag-racing strip by the current owner. He got so tired of planes landing on the strip when they were closed (and probably concerned about insurance also) that in addition to the X's painted on the ends he also started putting concrete barricades at 1000-foot intervals down the runway when they shut down operations after the races.
 
The airport in Pratt, KS has one of the more interesting comments in the A/FD that I've seen:

DO NOT MISTAKE LGTD CATTLE PENS FOR LGTD RYS
 
There is an old abandoned airfield near where I live, and it's been converted to a drag-racing strip by the current owner. He got so tired of planes landing on the strip when they were closed (and probably concerned about insurance also) that in addition to the X's painted on the ends he also started putting concrete barricades at 1000-foot intervals down the runway when they shut down operations after the races.


I would think his liability might increase if he puts hazards specifically targeting airplanes and one lands and kills somebody.... :dunno:
 
I would think his liability might increase if he puts hazards specifically targeting airplanes and one lands and kills somebody.... :dunno:
By that logic, then I'd be liable if/when a tresspasser gets hurt on my barbed- and razor-wire as they enter my property, because I'm specifically targeting tresspassors...
 
By that logic, then I'd be liable if/when a tresspasser gets hurt on my barbed- and razor-wire as they enter my property, because I'm specifically targeting tresspassors...


You are treading thin ice with razor wire.

There are 'booby trap' laws that can bite you in the assets.

You are not supposed to make things lethal to passers-by. Or trespassers for that matter.
 
And...

Ask your insurance company.


Id imagine I'm good, they insured me on floats and for off airport ops, hard to limit a amphib to airports.


You are treading thin ice with razor wire.

There are 'booby trap' laws that can bite you in the assets.


You are not supposed to make things lethal to passers-by. Or trespassers for that matter.

Reminds me of the stories I heard of S American farmers hanging cables across their fields to deture or kill the drug duster pilots.
 
You betcha and they may not let you fly out again. We had a flight school guy land at a private ski resort strip up in Colorado. He claimed after the fact that it was an engine issue, but the place wouldn't let him leave. My flight instructor and another "mechanic" went up to "check the problem out." and managed to bamboozle their way into the air and got it out there.

AVON?
 
You are treading thin ice with razor wire.

There are 'booby trap' laws that can bite you in the assets.

You are not supposed to make things lethal to passers-by. Or trespassers for that matter.
not a booby-trap; It's clearly posted. Wouldn't affect a passerby on a legal easement, rather only tresspassers who are already on my property.

Do I also need to load my defense weapons with less-than-lethal ammo and only aim for non-critical body parts to protect the criminal?
 
I'm a castle doctrine guy all day, but setting up deadly traps for landing aircraft (authorized or not) is asking for it.

Some student pilot runs his plane dry, tries to put down on your strip, hits your trap and dies, cop shop comes down, NTSB, FAA, best case scenario from what I would guess, you'll just get sued into the poor house, more likely sued and do a little time.
 
I'm a castle doctrine guy all day, but setting up deadly traps for landing aircraft (authorized or not) is asking for it.

Some student pilot runs his plane dry, tries to put down on your strip, hits your trap and dies, cop shop comes down, NTSB, FAA, best case scenario from what I would guess, you'll just get sued into the poor house, more likely sued and do a little time.

Why/ They're not traps because its not an airport.
 
Agree. Just because I have a strip of land or pavement that is long enough for a plane to land on in an emergency doesn't mean I have to keep it clear!

Why/ They're not traps because its not an airport.
 
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