Did the long solo today. At one of the stops the controller gave me LAHSO instructions. I was just 2 miles out and configured to land when he told me that. Runway was very long [2 miles+]. I probably could have landed without any problems. However, I told the controller I was a student. He changed the runway when I was 1 1/2 miles out. Field had about 10 runways. Not being familiar with that many runways, it completely messed me up. Landed ok on another runway but glad it was a long one. My question, should I have announced when first contacting approach that I was a student? NOT faulting the controllers. After they knew they were dealing with a student everything down and they went above and beyond.
lahso student question
- Thread starter fast99
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2019
- Messages
- 1,985
- Location
- Chicago suburbs
- Display Name
Display name:
The Little Arrow That Could
I trained at a towered field and only used "student pilot" in my radio calls on a few occasions. Namely the "student pilot, first solo" call out.
I shamelessly used it again on two other occasions when they gave me complex instructions I could not digest.
Maybe in the future if you hear something on ATIS saying "land and hold short operations are in effect" you could let them know. But I think you did the right thing by just letting them know you couldn't accept the LAHSO instruction after they were given.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
If the controller knows you are a student, he will not issue and land and hold short. Also as a student, you should not accept a land and hold short. Yes, advising you are a student would be appreciated by the controller.
AIM 4-3-11
AIM 4-3-11
- At controlled airports, air traffic may clear a pilot to land and hold short. Pilots may accept such a clearance provided that the pilot-in-command determines that the aircraft can safely land and stop within the Available Landing Distance (ALD). ALD data are published in the Chart Supplement and in the U.S. Terminal Procedures Publications. Controllers will also provide ALD data upon request. Student pilots or pilots not familiar with LAHSO should not participate in the program.
Last edited:
Larry in TN
En-Route
AIM 4-2-4
(c) Student Pilots Radio Identification.
The FAA desires to help student pilots in acquiring sufficient practical experience in the environment in which they will be required to operate. To receive additional assistance while operating in areas of concentrated air traffic, student pilots need only identify themselves as a student pilot during their initial call to an FAA radio facility.
EXAMPLE- Dayton tower, Fleetwing One Two Three Four, student pilot.
Identify as a Student Pilot, at a minimum, on the initial call-up with ATC facilities. Identify on every transmission if you start getting confused or stressed with the situation. It alerts ATC and they will look out for you and offer additional help as needed.
When LAHSO are in effect, it should be mentioned on ATIS. If you are unable, or unwilling, to accept a LAHSO clearance you should state "Unable land and hold short" on initial contact. This gives the controller time to plan for your arrival without the requirement to have you hold short.
AIM 4-3-11
b.
5. If, for any reason, such as difficulty in discerning the location of a LAHSO intersection, wind conditions, aircraft condition, etc., the pilot elects to request to land on the full length of the runway, to land on another runway, or to decline LAHSO, a pilot is expected to promptly inform air traffic, ideally even before the clearance is issued.
Lindberg
Final Approach
Yes. And when first contacting tower as well. It's to everyone's benefit. I'm not saying this applies to you, but remember that "macho" is one of the hazardous attitudes.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
I think I only used "student pilot" a few times. The rest of the times I forgot.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I do that when flying IFR and get a huge reroute.
That's not me at all. This flying thing is very humbling. Thanks for the responses, will announce my student status from now on.
Larry in TN
En-Route
I'm curious what your CFI taught with regard to using student pilot in your call sign. When I was teaching, I had my students use it routinely.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
I did all my training from a towered airport, so I got used to it right away. And since the plane I flew was used almost exclusively for training, tower already knew there was a student pilot. Most of my flights took me to untowered airports. So I might have only used it a handful of times.
Gave me no advice, I think it is a good idea do it. The controllers all changed cadence, gave more instruction and basically kept me out of trouble. Have a load of other questions as well.
One is the red line around the GSA ramp. Controller turned me around before entering that area. Don't remember anyone saying anything about a red GSA line even in ground school. Maybe I was sleeping or something and I do remember going over it with the CFI on a previous flight.
That's too bad. I really think it's an overused and often unnecessary crutch. I was easily 15-20 years ago but can't forget the time I was on the same route as a student pilot whose instructor apparently taught them to use it on every single transmission. I mean that literally. Every. Single. Transmission.
As in
SP: Center. Skyhawk 1234A. Level at 3,000. Student pilot.
Center: Skyhawk 1234 A. Radar contact. Altimeter 2997.
SP: 2997. Student pilot.
I started to pull my hair out by the 8th time.When I was doing primary, I did the same thing as my instructor - taught my students to use it if they felt they needed it.
If the ATIS announced "land and hold short operations in effect" (it should have; it's required), I would have used "Student Pilot" when I told them, "we have Kilo." Otherwise, as soon as you knew you were getting a LAHSO landing clearance.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2017
- Messages
- 2,574
- Display Name
Display name:
Hang 4
My guess is that's a customs area. Red line - stay out unless you are clearing from an international destination. Not taught often, I had one at my learning airport, so was told to stay out by my CFI, not sure I would have learned that otherwise.
I wish I had done this routinely on my student solos. Most of the time it wasn't needed, but I didn't know in advance when it would be.
One time at Bellinham, WA (BLI), the controller told me to taxi across a red-bordered area for departure. I asked for confirmation before proceeding.
Larry in TN
En-Route
Not sure I really understand the overused part. They are a student pilot so it seems appropriate to me. No different than the "heavy", "super", or "Lifeguard" suffixes for call signs. It coveys useful information.
As to unnecessary, student pilots are more easily confused and make more frequent mistakes than licensed pilots. It increases the controller's, or other pilots' at a non-towered field, awareness for possible errors or lower level of awareness.
I don't know what a red line would mean. I'd have to look and see if there is a standardized usage.
The only time I can remember red painted lines at an airport was a Thule Air Base, a USAF base in northwest Greenland. The paved surfaces are painted white, with red striping, because dark colored pavement would absorb too much heat during the 24/7 sun in the short summer season that it would melt the permafrost upon which the airport was built. Lots of things were different at that airport.
SixPapaCharlie
May the force be with you
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2013
- Messages
- 16,470
- Display Name
Display name:
Sixer
I always use student pilot in every radio call.
Ah, so you were that guy’s instructor! (Kidding)
I think if it’s unnecessary it’s overused. I think teaching a student to tag “student pilot” to the end of every single call, no matter how mundane, reinforces mic fright, and perhaps teaches it to those who wouldn’t worry otherwise. I think it teaches not to be confident with normal communication. And when they get their private, they can just magically throw away the crutch with zero prior experience dealing with scary ATC without it? (Unless you are @SixPapaCharlie).
After a solo cross country I would ask my student if they found a need to use it. A “yes” made for a great debrief because it was special. “I thought about it but didn’t and handled it” was even better since it was accompanied by the big smile of accomplishment. A no? That’s actually nothing special. Just normal dealing with ATC.
Last edited:
Especially IFR.
SixPapaCharlie
May the force be with you
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2013
- Messages
- 16,470
- Display Name
Display name:
Sixer
If ever an airline pilot, it's going to be tempting...
Lindberg
Final Approach
Not at that airport, but there's airline service, so it may be a TSA security boundary.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
I’ve seen the TSA lines before. One of those airports that gets two regional flights a day has that. The TSA guys really get mad if you cross that line. Someone said they like to step across a corner without actually stepping inside, but I don’t think that’s a good idea.
pfarber
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2021
- Messages
- 656
- Display Name
Display name:
pfarber
the FAA will have a line for movement/non-movement areas. Whatever is on the other side of the Movement area is not under ATC control. FAA airport markings are also not prevelant in the non-movement area.
Pretty sure he was referring to a form of airline security procedures at smaller airports with airline service, including at nontowered airports. There are several types In some they are well marked.
There are others non-FAA markings. My nontowered home base has a “red box” for forest fire fighting operations. Our AWOS mentions it as a no parking zone and to avoid even taxiing through it when firefight operations are in effect.
Aren’t we supposed to be saying “learner pilot”? 
AIM 4-2-4c still recommends saying "student pilot" on the radio. (And by the way, it only recommends it on the initial call.)Aren’t we supposed to be saying “learner pilot”?
The word "learner" does not appear anywhere in the AIM.
Here's the red line they had me cross at Bellingham. It even says "restricted area" on it.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyOC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==
https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyOC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==
Lindberg
Final Approach
That's the TSA "secure" area.
DesertNomad
Pattern Altitude
KBIH Bishop, CA has one of these lines. Don’t cross it.
Aren’t we supposed to be saying “learner pilot”?
Yes, I know you are joking but just in case... Nope. In this case it really is a "student pilot" - the holder of a student pilot certificate.
455 Bravo Uniform
Final Approach
With student solo cross-country distances, you’re talking to 3, maybe 4 controllers - departure tower, enroute controller, maybe another enroute, then destination tower. So that’s 3 or 4 that only take the introductory “student pilot” announcement one time. If you forget, or if the controller forgets, and things get hairy, throw another one in there as a reminder. No big deal.
You did good, with the in-air adjustment without loosing your head. You didn’t have to “paint by numbers” to survive. As you progress you’ll find time and again that while 90-99% of flights call upon a routine, you’ll custom build some part of that flight out of necessity. Just fly the plane.
You did good, with the in-air adjustment without loosing your head. You didn’t have to “paint by numbers” to survive. As you progress you’ll find time and again that while 90-99% of flights call upon a routine, you’ll custom build some part of that flight out of necessity. Just fly the plane.
I’ve told this story here before, but one day I was flying with a student for his first time a a tower controlled airport. His initial call goes something like “Xxx tower, uh……, Cessna Xxxxx, uh…………… ten miles to the uh……….west, uh….no east, uh……………inbound for landing, uh…………with information uh………..Kilo.” He thinks for a second and then looks at me and says, “I forgot to tell him that I’m a student pilot!” I just responded, “Don’t worry, he knows”. He at first is thinking “wait, what, how?” And then it hits him. We were still laughing when we touched down.
Last edited:
Gilbert Buettner
Cleared for Takeoff
I remember at Goose Bay they painted lines on the tall snowbanks that lined the runway and taxiways. Just about everything was white, so it would be pretty easy to poke wing into the snowbank without the lines.
morleyz
Pre-takeoff checklist
On the original question, I had a similar situation during my primary training. When we briefed my solo flight plan, my CFI brought up LAHSO at one of my stops, telling me to make sure I told the tower I was a student there otherwise I would be likely to get a LAHSO clearance and have to unable and have them change plans. Which would have gotten me into the same situation at the OP on changing my whole approach.
I was encouraged to use student pilot in my radio calls. I did use it where I thought it was important for the situation. Primarily that was while I was on my first solo and when I was returning to the busy, uncontrolled field. I'm sure it scared the sh*t out of everyone in the pattern and they made a hole for me. I don't see it as a crutch as much as I was a student who had the knowledge and fledgling stick and rudder skills, but I definitely had not experienced most of the situations and it would be to the benefit of everyone if they knew this before it hit the fan.
I was encouraged to use student pilot in my radio calls. I did use it where I thought it was important for the situation. Primarily that was while I was on my first solo and when I was returning to the busy, uncontrolled field. I'm sure it scared the sh*t out of everyone in the pattern and they made a hole for me. I don't see it as a crutch as much as I was a student who had the knowledge and fledgling stick and rudder skills, but I definitely had not experienced most of the situations and it would be to the benefit of everyone if they knew this before it hit the fan.
Thanks for all the comments. Will announce student pilot from now on. When the controller told me lahso at the intersecting runway it took a few seconds for it to register, then I called back. The plane on the other runway was a PC12 we would have been approaching the intersection about the same time. My landings have been long, glad I did it.
Gilbert Buettner
Cleared for Takeoff
When I was learning to fly C-130s we had some late-night flights with a bunch of us new student copilots on board with an instructor. I think it was past midnight, and we were flying out of our training base in Tennessee, but over Georgia, controlled by Atlanta Center. The instructor was a character and was telling us young guys stories, probably about Vietnam, and we somehow missed a turn and were almost 20 miles off course when Center called and asked where we were going.
"Student training in progress," the IP said on the radio.
I've used that line a few times since, even when I was solo.
"Student training in progress," the IP said on the radio.
I've used that line a few times since, even when I was solo.