KXNA (Fayetteville, AR) Airport Diagram

That is very interesting... any idea as to why?
 
It's Arkansas :yes: wink
 
More common than you'd think. Maybe dumbing it down for those who don't know left from right. Or there is that much magnetic variation...
 
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Wow, that's a CF in the making.
 
The westerly (35) is closed.
Rather than remove the pavement, they "X"ed it out. Maybe left it there for emergency, taxing, etc

34 is the correct/active runway with proper markings. I'm not sure why 35 is still on the plates.

MAP
 
Badger said:
The westerly (35) is closed.
Rather than remove the pavement, they "X"ed it out. Maybe left it there for emergency, taxing, etc

34 is the correct/active runway with proper markings. I'm not sure why 35 is still on the plates.

MAP
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You wouldn't know that from looking at the airport diagram, however.

Once the plate shows it to be closed it could still be shown. The diagram for KOLM shows an OLD closed runway (closed before I started flying in 2000), but the closed part is clearly shown as closed in the diagram.
 
Badger said:
The westerly (35) is closed.
Rather than remove the pavement, they "X"ed it out. Maybe left it there for emergency, taxing, etc

34 is the correct/active runway with proper markings. I'm not sure why 35 is still on the plates.

MAP
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The second runway was added when they were resurfacing the main runway.
 
BTW...to locals...Fayetteville is KFYV. KXNA is "northwest ark"

If you're in the area and ask someone how to get to the Fayetteville airport you won't be directed to XNA.

Commercial traffic used to go in to / out of FYV. But it's down on the river and was regularly fogged in. So they built the new airport...in the middle of freakin' nowhere. It's a waste. Another area airport, especially Rogers, could have been easily expanded to handle the load.

I'm loathe to say that there are ever too many airports in an area...but...there are too many airports in that area.

Admittedly, it was a great atmosphere to train in when I was at HRO going through my PP training. We fly over in less than 15 minutes from Berryville and land at a half dozen different airports, 4 of them with towers, in less than 30 to 45 minutes. Then have lunch at Springdale's airport diner which always had pretty good food.
 
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Tim & Andrew --

What got me looking is a planned PnP mission out that direction. Is there a better choice than XNA?
 
AggieMike88 said:
Tim & Andrew --

What got me looking is a planned PnP mission out that direction. Is there a better choice than XNA?
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Depends on what part of the area the "receiving party" lives, or if you're simply transferring to another plane. FYV is the only airport in the area that has MoGas...if you burn it. Springdale has (or at least had) a pretty good restaurant right on the field and has some of the cheapest 100LL prices of the airports in the immediate area.

Huntsville, about 20 miles farther east, is fifty to seventy five cents less than the "NW ark metro" airports. I've used Huntville before on PnP hand-offs. Gas and a toilet is all that's there though.

So, Springdale if you want to have lunch. Huntsville if you want the cheapest 100LL. And Fayetteville if you want MoGas. Or as otherwise dictated if the dog's final destination is the NW Ark area.

BTW...I agree the runway numbers are pretty bizarre.
 
timwinters said:
Depends on what part of the area the "receiving party" lives, or if you're simply transferring to another plane. FYV is the only airport in the area that has MoGas...if you burn it. Springdale has (or at least had) a pretty good restaurant right on the field and has some of the cheapest 100LL prices of the airports in the immediate area.

Huntsville, about 20 miles farther east, is fifty to seventy five cents less than the "NW ark metro" airports. I've used Huntville before on PnP hand-offs. Gas and a toilet is all that's there though.

So, Springdale if you want to have lunch. Huntsville if you want the cheapest 100LL. And Fayetteville if you want MoGas. Or as otherwise dictated if the dog's final destination is the NW Ark area.

BTW...I agree the runway numbers are pretty bizarre.
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This is a weeknight flight, meeting up with a volunteer to transfer Momma dog and 4 puppies, and then returning home. I'd like to top off with 100LL. Cost per gallon not a huge concern since I get a wet rate from the club.
 
Anybody remember the E/W runways at Stapleton? There were four hunks of concrete staring at you on approach 25, Taxiway C 26L, 26R. It happened enough that they added a note to the airport diagram to warn people not to mistake Taxiway C for the runway.

Then there's runway 11/29 at Dulles. You can just make out where it used to be on what is now taxiway Q, but it was always parallel to 12/30. Why they had 19L/19R but gave 11 and 12 different numbers I don't know.
 
We used to take our planes into XNA for heavy maintenance. The MRO was owned by a member of the Walton family. Used to joke about taking a MD-11 to Wal Mart to get fixed. Had fun driving around the area. I think I'm still have a membership at Bobbysox.
 
XNA was never intended to have parallel runways. The traffic volume doesn't warrant it. However, a massive reconstruction of the sole 8,800ft runway was necessary. So the FAA gave XNA $25 million to build a "parallel taxiway" on the west side of the runway which is techincally classified as an "Alternate Landing Surface". This taxiway will serve termporarily as the runway during the reconstruction of the runway (a $40 million project) so that the airport wouldn't loose air service during the reconstruction.

You'll notice in the NOTAMs 16/34 is closed. Because both runways were never intended to be open at the same time, they changed the numbering to avoid the L/R designations.

When 16/34 opens back up, 17/35 will revert back to a taxiway, but may again be redeployed as a runway if the 16/34 needs to close again in the future.
 
Metro airport (KBJC) has a runway 29L and 29R. 29R is being rebuilt and is closed, but part of the project includes re-numbering from 29 to 30. I'm curious when the project is finished if the airport will have runway 29L and 30R, at least until they repaint 29L. Has anyone ever seen that?
 
It's no different than any other intersecting runway. It's just the intersection point is many miles out.
 
Springdale's (ASG) restaurant has been redone and is open. It's called Flaps Down Grill. Check em out online. Have not been there yet.looks pretty good though. FYV (Drake ) (Fayetteville Executive) whatever they wanna call it today, is my base. Have not flown since Feb.. Gaawd I'm poor.
 
Sac Arrow said:
It's no different than any other intersecting runway. It's just the intersection point is many miles out.
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They're still parallel, I just thought it's strange to have a 29L without a 29R.
 
Just as odd to me are the taxiway designations. Why would B change to K when crossing the approach end of 16 and change to A when crossing the approach end of 34 while C, E, and F don't change crossing the same runway? Seems like at the intersections at the ends of the runway you should turn off of B and onto A or K, depending on which end you're at.
 
timwinters said:
So they built the new airport...in the middle of freakin' nowhere. It's a waste.
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Never fear Tim. In a few years people will be building humongous houses right up to the property line and demanding the airport be closed. :yes: :D
 
Norman said:
Never fear Tim. In a few years people will be building humongous houses right up to the property line and demanding the airport be closed. :yes: :D
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Nahhhh, Norm, it's NW AR...it'll be surrounded by chicken houses with the stench welcoming visitors to Tyson country,
 
Badger said:
The westerly (35) is closed.
Rather than remove the pavement, they "X"ed it out. Maybe left it there for emergency, taxing, etc

34 is the correct/active runway with proper markings. I'm not sure why 35 is still on the plates.

MAP
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Actually now 35 (the furthest west piece of pavement) is open and 34 is closed. I landed there last week. I asked the woman at the FBO what was going on. She said that the old runway had deteriorated because of the deice liquid they had been using.

XNA 02/044 XNA RWY 16/34 E 250FT WORK IN PROGRESS EXCAVATING
1402181611-1502181700EST
XNA 08/004 XNA RWY 16 ALS OTS
XNA 08/005 XNA RWY 34 ALS OTS
XNA 01/014 XNA RWY 17 THR LGT MEDIUM INTST CONS DAILY SR-SS
1401242252-1501011536EST
XNA 01/013 XNA RWY 17/35 EDGE LGT MEDIUM INTST CONS DAILY SR-SS
1401242251-1501011533EST
XNA 02/043 XNA RWY 16/34 CLSD 1402181609-1502181700EST
XNA 01/015 XNA RWY 35 THR LGT MEDIUM INTST CONS DAILY SR-SS
1401242252-1501011537EST
XNA 08/002 XNA NAV ILS RWY 16 LLZ/GP/DME OTS
XNA 08/008 XNA NAV ILS RWY 34 LLZ/GP/DME OTS
XNA 02/040 XNA NAV ILS RWY 35 DME UNUSABLE BEYOND 18 DEGREES LEFT
OF COURSE 1402122138-1402282359EST
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Everskyward said:
Actually now 35 (the furthest west piece of pavement) is open and 34 is closed. I landed there last week. I asked the woman at the FBO what was going on. She said that the old runway had deteriorated because of the deice liquid they had been using.
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Spreading ice melt salt on relatively new concrete can be a very expensive mistake...at home too...but, man, ruining an entire runway by doing it...that takes a really special level of stoopid.
 
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Flew into KXNA in a Cessna 150. It was the first time the line boy had fueled anything but jets. His supervisor came out to make sure he did it right.

A huge airport built primarily (I think) for Hunt, Wallmart, and Tyson. The tower gave me a hard time as if they could barely fit me in. However, for the hour I was there before going to the hotel, no other plane took off or landed. The next morning, same story.
 
timwinters said:
Nahhhh, Norm, it's NW AR...it'll be surrounded by chicken houses with the stench welcoming visitors to Tyson country,
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BTW...it's the only place I've ever flown where the lower you fly, the more you need oxygen!
 
timwinters said:
Spreading ice melt salt on relatively new concrete can be a very expensive mistake...at home too...but, man, ruining an entire runway by doing it...that takes a really special level of stoopid.
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I think she also mentioned something about the mix of the concrete which was originally used. I didn't get into the technical details. I was just curious why the runway configuration and numbering was so... different.
 
timwinters said:
BTW...it's the only place I've ever flown where the lower you fly, the more you need oxygen!
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There is a huge uproar right now because of a chicken farm being built in the Buffalo River watershed. The local EPA/ADEQ approved the permit. :confused: :mad2:

I had a student point out a chicken farm up there that got hit by a tornado. He said roughly 40,000 chickens were lost. :eek:

Can you imagine seeing a tornado made up of 40,000 chickens and chicken poop....... :yikes:
 
I think she also mentioned something about the mix of the concrete which was originally used. I didn't get into the technical details. I was just curious why the runway configuration and numbering was so... different.
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That was the real problem. The aggregate used in the concrete reacted with the cement. It is called Alkali Silica Reactivity (ASR) and is a big deal. The reaction forms a jelly-like substance around the aggregate and the concrete starts coming apart as the adhesion to the aggregates is lost. There is a test required in the FAA spec for concrete pavement to avoid this problem. Evidently, something went or was done wrong.
 
somorris said:
That was the real problem. The aggregate used in the concrete reacted with the cement. It is called Alkali Silica Reactivity (ASR) and is a big deal. The reaction forms a jelly-like substance around the aggregate and the concrete starts coming apart as the adhesion to the aggregates is lost. There is a test required in the FAA spec for concrete pavement to avoid this problem. Evidently, something went or was done wrong.
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The highway department, AHTD, is have the same issues on I-540/I-49. Apparently both the interstate and the airport used concrete from the same source. The concrete being produce in the late 1990s used the now obsolete aggregate.

AHTD started noticing the problem starting with the interstate bridges around Fayetteville about 3-4 years ago.
 
We had a lot of curb and sidewalks (and some streets) in my vicinity crumble after a very short lifespan. Apparently it was traced to some limestone problems from a particular layer in a quarry (at least that's the way I remember the news). For some reason, it wasn't caught and curbs and other concrete work that used that stuff disintegrated.
 
somorris said:
That was the real problem. The aggregate used in the concrete reacted with the cement. It is called Alkali Silica Reactivity (ASR) and is a big deal. The reaction forms a jelly-like substance around the aggregate and the concrete starts coming apart as the adhesion to the aggregates is lost. There is a test required in the FAA spec for concrete pavement to avoid this problem. Evidently, something went or was done wrong.
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You know this for a fact? Specifically that this this is the issue at XNA?
 
timwinters said:
You know this for a fact? Specifically that this this is the issue at XNA?
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http://www.airportimprovement.com/content/story.php?article=00361

When Northwest Arkansas Regional Airport (XNA) was built in 1998 to replace the commercial component at Fayetteville's Drake Field, no one expected its sole runway would need to be completely reconstructed 13 years later.

Thanks to a severe case of alkali silica reaction (ASR), that's just what happened. And to date, no one knows exactly why.

ASR is a chemical reaction between alkalis typically found in cement powder and silica in fine aggregate (sand). Once initiated, the reaction acts much like cancer: A gel-like material surrounds the fine aggregate particles and begins to grow. As the gel grows, it expands the concrete and causes cracks and eventually concrete pop-outs. The crumbling debris can result in costly foreign object damage to aircraft engines.
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Guess it wasn't the deicing after all and the CSR was only partially correct. But then we were only having a casual conversation and she might have heard this as a rumor. It seems that they're not completely sure what happened either.
 
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flyingron said:
Anybody remember the E/W runways at Stapleton? There were four hunks of concrete staring at you on approach 25, Taxiway C 26L, 26R. It happened enough that they added a note to the airport diagram to warn people not to mistake Taxiway C for the runway.
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I do. Never landed on any of them, but it was talked about regularly around here back then.

As was the fact that 08R/26L used to be part of the ramp at KPUB... Still pictured in this airport diagram as the closed "runway" nearest to the terminal, but then they build a shorter runway north of the main runway and flip-flopped the L/R.

Boy is *that* screwed up if you started flying here long enough ago that you remembered that 08R was "the short runway over on the ramp". Then you show up one day and they're flipped. 08R is the big runway, the one on the ramp is gone, and there's a new 08L to the north.

A few people got a nasty surprise from that one and there was a blurb on the ATIS for a long time.

zuje4y5a.jpg


The diagonal runway in the diagram has been closed "forever" but still stands out like a sore thumb. It'll never be taken off the diagram.
 
Mark Manning, vice president of Kimley-Horn, notes that the design required the alternate surface to be separated from 16/34. "We had to make sure that the navaids on the two landing surfaces did not conflict with each other," recalls Manning, explaining that the new alternate landing surface was designated as 17/35 rather than 16/34 to help prevent pilots from lining up to land on the wrong surface. "We also had to make sure the frequencies on the glide slope antennas for the two runways were compatible," he adds.

http://www.airportimprovement.com/content/story.php?article=00361

There you go, it's because pilots are not smart enough.

They did a similar shuffle in Fargo about 10 years ago. Built a new taxiway A designated as 'alternate surface' and painted runway markings on it. Tore out the runway 17/35 and built a new 9000ft runway 18/36 in the same place. Once they were done, traffic moved back onto the new runway and A became the air-carrier taxiway (it is on the side with the terminal).
 
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IIRC, KPHX does this too, since it has 4 parallel runways. Rather than having L, R and C, then another one, they have L and R, then rounded the other way and have a second set of L and R.
 
SkyHog said:
IIRC, KPHX does this too, since it has 4 parallel runways. Rather than having L, R and C, then another one, they have L and R, then rounded the other way and have a second set of L and R.
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As did KDEN...

dagamaje.jpg
 
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