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Kritchlow

Kritchlow

Final Approach
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Kritchlow
KCM, in its short lifespan, has been reserved for part 121 airline pilots. It since has evolved to allow most flight attendants into the program, and more recently to most part 135 operators that have a security system in place.
I don't have a huge problem with the 135 guys as a security risk, but I truly feel the KCM program should be an "as needed basis". Sorry, but even though the 135 guys have passed the security checks, there is no need for KCM. IMO it should be reserved for crews going to work.

For those that may not be aware, KCM is an alternative screening program used for fllight crews.
 
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StinkBug said:
Cool story bro.
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I guess my question is do you think it should be for the 135 guys, or just the as needed folks.

Apparently I didn't make that clear.
Perhaps this is more of a question for APC..
 
I'm a scheduled 135 guy and don't have it, but we're working on it. I'm curious, what sets us apart in your mind? Sure, I don't fly a multi-turbine with hundreds of seats like your precious 121 gods, but I'm still going to work all the same... Sure, it helps that we just walk to the front of the TSA line, flash the badge and go through the the medal detector (NOT the body scanner), and we're exempt from all those rules on what we can bring through. But still, in the winter a heavy coat cause issues with the medal detector, and we still have to remove everything from our pockets. Yeah, allowing us the same basic accommodations as our peers is a bad idea... :mad2:
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
I'm a scheduled 135 guy and don't have it, but we're working on it. I'm curious, what sets us apart in your mind? Sure, I don't fly a multi-turbine with hundreds of seats like your precious 121 gods, but I'm still going to work all the same... Sure, it helps that we just walk to the front of the TSA line, flash the badge and go through the the medal detector (NOT the body scanner), and we're exempt from all those rules on what we can bring through. But still, in the winter a heavy coat cause issues with the medal detector, and we still have to remove everything from our pockets. Yeah, allowing us the same basic accommodations as our peers is a bad idea... :mad2:
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Yup.. I was a 135 guy for many years. At the end of my tenure we were granted KCM status. We loved it. More importantly, like you, we were completely qualified for it.
That said, we had no reason to really use it. We never actually worked a flight out of the passenger terminals.
That's my point. It should be on an as needed basis. I also think you should be in CASS, but that's for another thread.
 
Kritchlow said:
Yup.. I was a 135 guy for many years. At the end of my tenure we were granted KCM status. We loved it. More importantly, like you, we were completely qualified for it.
That said, we had no reason to really use it. We never actually worked a flight out of the passenger terminals.
That's my point. It should be on an as needed basis. I also think you should be in CASS, but that's for another thread.
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I work every flight out of the passenger terminal.

And we are in CASS...
 
To be honest, there are other reasons 135 guys should not be allowed KCM priidges, but I won't go into that potentially nasty debate just yet.
 
The whole security theater is a joke anyway.
 
James331 said:
The whole security theater is a joke anyway.
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Possibly, but IIRC that has been extensively debated in a different thread.
KCM is a whole different animal in my opinion.

YMMV about security...
 
Why not just get rid of the whole thing?

Lots of people get on planes for work, not just pilots. Why should they get special privileges that their customers are denied?
 
JeffDG said:
Why not just get rid of the whole thing?

Lots of people get on planes for work, not just pilots. Why should they get special privileges that their customers are denied?
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Valid question... But very uniformed.
KCM allows crews to get expedited security. If you want your crew to wait in line with all passengers and go through general screening, than expect delays.

KCM is a security plan devised for crew members.

Why would you want Your crew to wait in long lines with you?
 
Plus... It allows TSA more leeway and time to deal with general Public issues.
 
Kritchlow said:
Valid question... But very uniformed.
KCM allows crews to get expedited security. If you want your crew to wait in line with all passengers and go through general screening, than expect delays.

KCM is a security plan devised for crew members.

Why would you want Your crew to wait in long lines with you?
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705


Forget who has the quote about there being no such thing as "security" or "saftey".
 
The baggage handlers smuggling drugs in the hold or the catering guy loading bombs food in the galley don't go through the nude-a-scope, why should anyone else?
 
Everyone knows that 121 guys don't like anyone else to use KCM because ALPA made it happen. If you don't pay ALPA then you shouldn't use it.

I don't have children but my tax dollars go to schools. I don't play football (the real kind not the fake American kind) but I just build a great pitch down the street for all the kids to play on with my tax money. You get the idea. It improves the experience for everyone letting all crews use KCM
 
You might get a better (and more professional response) on JetCareers.com
 
They should expand KCM to all certificated pilots. I have just as much a need as the 135 guys do.
 
What's the difference between KCM and TSA Precheck and Global Entry? I have had Global Entry since it came out and I have literally gone through Dulles Security in about 5 mins.
 
KCM the crew members are vetted and don't have to go through the scanner
 
Sending crew members through the scanner has to be the very best of security theater. It's all done to make sure you can't take over an airplane that everyone knows you're about to take over anyway. And they still let you through!!!

KCM sounds conceptually similar to the KTN (TSA Pre-Check) program for passengers. Under that program, anyone who's willing to get the background check is eligible. Should that program be restricted to only certain frequent flyers? And if so, who would be the arbiter of who qualifies and who doesn't? And how would such a determination be made?

It seems to me the most efficient way to handle those types of programs is to set the standards and accept anyone who meets them.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
Sending crew members through the scanner has to be the very best of security theater. It's all done to make sure you can't take over an airplane that everyone knows you're about to take over anyway. And they still let you through!!!

KCM sounds conceptually similar to the KTN (TSA Pre-Check) program for passengers. Under that program, anyone who's willing to get the background check is eligible. Should that program be restricted to only certain frequent flyers? And if so, who would be the arbiter of who qualifies and who doesn't? And how would such a determination be made?

It seems to me the most efficient way to handle those types of programs is to set the standards and accept anyone who meets them.


JKG
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The thing is, I'm sure there are fewer crew members in their line than in the pre-check line so screening would be faster. Pre-checkers don't go through the scanner either, just the metal detector.

The thing about pre-check is that you don't get it all the time, at least I don't. I might get it 80% of the time. Of course I'm not quite sure why I was selected to begin with since I never applied.

Also, pre-check is set up differently depending on the airport and maybe even the terminal. In Denver and San Francisco the pre-checkers have a separate line. In Newark, everyone goes through the same line so it is really not much faster. The only difference is the pre-checkers are handed a colored card which indicates they don't need to take off their shoes, etc. and they point you to the metal detector instead of the scanner.
 
Kritchlow said:
Valid question... But very uniformed.

KCM allows crews to get expedited security. If you want your crew to wait in line with all passengers and go through general screening, than expect delays.



KCM is a security plan devised for crew members.



Why would you want Your crew to wait in long lines with you?
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The most effective way to achieve the repeal of an unjust law is to insist upon its full enforcement.
 
Can't you leave your medals at home? Or perhaps you meant metal?
 
Kritchlow said:
Valid question... But very uniformed.
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UNINFORMED or uniformed?

Are you as imprecise in your flying as your posting? Best if you keep on taking off your medals and strolling through the body scanner.
 
rolivi said:
UNINFORMED or uniformed?

Are you as imprecise in your flying as your posting? Best if you keep on taking off your medals and strolling through the body scanner.
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Really?? Over a typo??

Grow up.
 
I get it... you want to wear a UNIFORM and have that dictate your treatment.

You clearly intended to call someone who disagreed with you uninformed (so adult of you).

And I still have no clue what your medals are for, only that you don't want them detected.
 
rolivi said:
I get it... you want to wear a UNIFORM and have that dictate your treatment.

You clearly intended to call someone who disagreed with you uninformed (so adult of you).

And I still have no clue what your medals are for, only that you don't want them detected.
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I have no idea why you keep referring to medals. Perhaps I am missing something. It wouldn't be the first time.

And yes, many people are uninformed about many things. There are many topics that I am uninformed about. That's one reason I read this forum. I learn a lot about things I don't know, especially the aircraft ownership and maintenance side of aviation.
 
Ahh... I see the post now. Yup.. I post using my iPhone. Damn spellcheck!!
 
I was having some fun with you. Sorry.

I'm a too frequent flyer (Exp Plat most every year) and I use TSA Pre all the time... once you register and pay the 75 or 80 bucks you get it 100% of the time. For international you should register with Global Entry, that's 100 bucks I think but works on all carriers.
 
Kritchlow said:
Valid question... But very uniformed.
KCM allows crews to get expedited security. If you want your crew to wait in line with all passengers and go through general screening, than expect delays.

KCM is a security plan devised for crew members.

Why would you want Your crew to wait in long lines with you?
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone should have to wait in those stupid lines.

As far as KCM and CASS. Any air carrier certificated operation should be able to have access for their crews, regardless of 121 or 135
 
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Everskyward said:
The thing is, I'm sure there are fewer crew members in their line than in the pre-check line so screening would be faster. Pre-checkers don't go through the scanner either, just the metal detector.

The thing about pre-check is that you don't get it all the time, at least I don't. I might get it 80% of the time. Of course I'm not quite sure why I was selected to begin with since I never applied.

Also, pre-check is set up differently depending on the airport and maybe even the terminal. In Denver and San Francisco the pre-checkers have a separate line. In Newark, everyone goes through the same line so it is really not much faster. The only difference is the pre-checkers are handed a colored card which indicates they don't need to take off their shoes, etc. and they point you to the metal detector instead of the scanner.
Click to expand...

Pre-check is supposedly being phased out for those who have not applied and passed the background check process, which is really the only way that pre-check makes sense from a security standpoint. Since I've done the application and background check, and book with my KTN, I've received pre-check 100% of the time.

Airports which do not have a separate pre-check lane, or where that lane is not staffed at a particular time, do the yellow card. It's been perhaps a year since I've been to Newark, but I believe that at the time, not all terminals were equipped with pre-check.

I would assume that crew would receive priority screening in any situation, and that's generally what I've observed at airports where crew have used the passenger screening lanes.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
Pre-check is supposedly being phased out for those who have not applied and passed the background check process, which is really the only way that pre-check makes sense from a security standpoint. Since I've done the application and background check, and book with my KTN, I've received pre-check 100% of the time.



Airports which do not have a separate pre-check lane, or where that lane is not staffed at a particular time, do the yellow card. It's been perhaps a year since I've been to Newark, but I believe that at the time, not all terminals were equipped with pre-check.
Click to expand...

Newark did not have a separate pre-check lane as of a couple days ago, at least not in Terminal 1. If they are phasing out pre-check for those who haven't applied they hadn't started doing so as of last week because I got it both ways.
 
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