Kidney Disease denied for First class medical. Corporate Flying?

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JustinB57

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JustinB57
Hi everyone,

This is my first post here and I have a few questions. I'm brand new to aviation and I was very interested in becoming an airline pilot, but unfortunately it looks like that might not be possible.

In August of 2018 I went to a local AME and he looked over my records, and he noticed I had kidney disease which was re-diagnosed as IGA Nephropathy a few years back. I knew this would result in my medical being deferred to the FAA. My AME recommended that I try to get a First class medical right off the bat to see if there would be any issues. Looking at my medical history he was very certain I would have no issue getting a First class medical. After waiting for months, providing more information about a concussion in my past, and finally getting my medical, I was denied from a First class medical and was only issued a Second class special issuance medical to my surprise.

My questions are as follows:
1. Is there any way to appeal this decision and should I try talking to my AME about being denied?
2. If there is absolutely no way I can get a First class medical, what are my options like? I am still interested in corporate flying, but looking at some job boards it looks like most corporate jobs still want a First class medical.
3.Will I be able to find a corporate pilot job with a Second class medical?

Thanks!
 
One of the best folks to answer this question are Dr. Bruce Chien (@bbchien) and Dr. Lou Fowler (@lbfjrmd), both members here and both highly experienced Senior AME's specializing in challenging cases.

I would make sure to communicate with one of them to get the right answer, as those of us non-AME's that participate the forum can provide information, but it might not be the full picture you are asking for.

To answer your questions directly:
  1. Possibly. And yes to talking to the AME. He was the one who pushed you into the First Class zone in the first place, so it is his mess to clean up. If he is not willing, then you have your answer one if this AME deserves your future patronage. Doctors Chien and Fowler can provide you with the proper guidance on how to do an appeal
  2. and 3. There are many fulfilling aviation careers where a second class medical is accepted. While the corporate jet jockey gig might not be available, there are still many to explore. With the "new to aviation" comment, this tells me you have very few hours in your logbook at this time. So you have lots and lots of months and maybe a year or two to a) determine what is out there that will accept a second class and fit your desire to fly for a living; and (b) allow you to get the medical situation sorted and eventually acquire a First Class Medical.
 
AggieMike88 said:
One of the best folks to answer this question are Dr. Bruce Chien (@bbchien) and Dr. Lou Fowler (@lbfjrmd), both members here and both highly experienced Senior AME's specializing in challenging cases.

I would make sure to communicate with one of them to get the right answer, as those of us non-AME's that participate the forum can provide information, but it might not be the full picture you are asking for.

To answer your questions directly:
  1. Possibly. And yes to talking to the AME. He was the one who pushed you into the First Class zone in the first place, so it is his mess to clean up. If he is not willing, then you have your answer one if this AME deserves your future patronage. Doctors Chien and Fowler can provide you with the proper guidance on how to do an appeal
  2. and 3. There are many fulfilling aviation careers where a second class medical is accepted. While the corporate jet jockey gig might not be available, there are still many to explore. With the "new to aviation" comment, this tells me you have very few hours in your logbook at this time. So you have lots and lots of months and maybe a year or two to a) determine what is out there that will accept a second class and fit your desire to fly for a living; and (b) allow you to get the medical situation sorted and eventually acquire a First Class Medical.
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Thank you so much! I really appreciate the information. You are correct too, I have 0 hours. I have yet to start any training since I wanted to make sure I could get an appropriate medical certificate first and build up savings. What is the best way to communicate with those two AME's you posted? Private message them on here?

Also, could you possibly list some opportunities out there for someone who only has a second class medical?

Thanks again! I didn't expect such a fast or detailed response!
 
Even if a corporate job advertises that 1st class is required, I’d go ahead and apply and explain the situation if you get to the interview process.

It might not be a big deal, especially in a two person crew environment.
 
dans2992 said:
Even if a corporate job advertises that 1st class is required, I’d go ahead and apply and explain the situation if you get to the interview process.

It might not be a big deal, especially in a two person crew environment.
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Thank you for the information as well! Glad I joined this forum!
 
dans2992 said:
Even if a corporate job advertises that 1st class is required, I’d go ahead and apply and explain the situation if you get to the interview process.

It might not be a big deal, especially in a two person crew environment.
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A two person crew environment is a valid point. Sometimes, the "Second in command" (aka the guy in the right hand seat) doesn't have as strict requirements as the "Captain" in the left seat. There are many operations out there where they will hire the lower time pilot as SIC and just require the second class medical. For the pilot, this is a chance to gain useful experience and flight hours, even if it means accepting a low-ish pay scale. For the operator, this fills the requirement of their operating certificate by having a qualified body in that seat, and hopefully grooms that body to be a future left seater.

@JustinB57 ... to contact Dr. Chien, you can reach him through his contact web page, http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/how-to-start.html Be patient for the reply, for he is very well known and in demand, gets a multitude of requests, and still maintains a very, very busy practice.

To contact Dr. Lou Fowler, you can find his information via this Google Search.

You can also send private messages via this forum to either one. Just click their name and select "start conversation".
 
JustinB57 said:
Also, could you possibly list some opportunities out there for someone who only has a second class medical?
Click to expand...
Flight Instructor (which is a common way to build time toward future career and earn revenue)
Banner Towing
Glider Towing
Jump pilot
Part 135 Freight operations (such as Alliance Air Charter, Martinaire, and many others)
Ferry Pilot
Pipeline patrol
.... and many others ...
 
@AggieMike88 Thanks a ton! Really appreciate all the information and I'll be sure to get in touch with my AME and possibly one of both of the AME's you posted if mine is not willing to help.
 
1) there is a slight possibility you could later apply for a 1st class ... get your pvt pilot, instrument, etc ... and go from there. I would have to see the denial to further interpret it. I am not in agreement that your AME was amiss in applying for a 1st class. It had to be addressed eventually, causes no harm and you got a 2nd class. I do not rec. you appealing the decision.

2 & 3) other pilots have commented on these. Do not rule out helicopter training!

As you learn to fly and pick up ratings, you will learn of many opportunities. My sister flys copilot on a Citation X when it needs ferrying back and forth for maintenance and not carrying fares!
 
JustinB57 said:
Also, could you possibly list some opportunities out there for someone who only has a second class medical?
Click to expand...

EMS FW pilot. FO positions don’t pay much but they don’t have very stringent time requirements either. Of course, if you don’t want to share a cockpit with someone else, you could always go the helicopter route. ;)

Seriously though, plenty of other full time flying jobs that don’t require a Class I.
 
What really counts here are three things:
1. Stability. What do you 24 hour urine protein collections look like, and
2. Current kidney reserve- is your serum creatinine 2.7 or less?
3. Medications- what all are you taking.....
 
bbchien said:
What really counts here are three things:
1. Stability. What do you 24 hour urine protein collections look like, and
2. Current kidney reserve- is your serum creatinine 2.7 or less?
3. Medications- what all are you taking.....
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Thanks for the response @bbchien! All of that has been stable for many years. The only medication I take is 5mg of Lisinopril once daily. I would love to send you a copy of my Airman Medical Application, the letter that states why I wasn't issued a first class medical and instead issued the second class one, and current reports regarding my condition from John's Hopkins. I will include the concussion information as well since the FAA initially requested more information on that (which I provided), and then they issued the second class medical. If you're willing to take a look, what email address could I use to send you this information?
 
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Just out of curiosity, how does the number of hours (or lack thereof) factor into the decision? For example, were the OP a high-time pilot, might he have been given the benefit of the doubt on what seems to have been a borderline sort of decision?

Rich
 
AggieMike88 said:
@JustinB57 ... to contact Dr. Chien, you can reach him through his contact web page, http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/how-to-start.html

Be patient for the reply, for he is very well known, in high demand, gets a multitude of requests each day, and still maintains a very, very busy practice.
Click to expand...

172andyou said:
His website is listed above. It contains his contact info.
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Woops, my fault. Completely forgot you linked his site @AggieMike88. Sorry about that!
 
This has all been resolved! Thank you to everyone who commented and helped. A huge thank you to Dr. Louis Fowler (@lbfjrmd) for taking the time to look at all of my medical background, Airman medical application, and the final letter from the FAA. Also, a huge thank you to Dr. Bruce Chien (@bbchien) for taking a look at my final letter from the FAA as well, and for discovering that I hadn't been denied after all.

So here's the story. When I initially applied for my medical I marked that I wanted a Second class medical on the online application. When I went to my AME for my exam he recommended that I go for First class. This was because I was interested in becoming an airline pilot and it would be good to know if I was eligible before getting invested. So he marked on the paper application that I wanted a First class medical instead of the Second class. That application along with my medical history for my kidney condition and concussion was sent to the FAA. What I think happened is that someone at the FAA only looked at my online application and only saw I wanted a Second class medical. Therefore that's what I was issued. Dr. Fowler (@lbfjrmd) has informed me I can re-apply and go for First class 60 days after the issuance of my Second Class medical.

Huge thank you once again to these two amazing AME's and the people of this forum who gave suggestions and offered comments. I really appreciate the help!
 
Just wanted to give a quick update and say thank you to everyone here once again. I recently went to my local AME after applying for first class, explained what happened, and he was able to contact the FAA and issue my First Class medical! Thanks everyone for your help!
 
Congrats on the medical.

So in the time between getting the second class and first class, did you do any flying? Did you get your student pilot certificate? Did you begin ground school?
 
SkyDog58 said:
Congrats on the medical.

So in the time between getting the second class and first class, did you do any flying? Did you get your student pilot certificate? Did you begin ground school?
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Thanks! Unfortunately no, I have yet to start any training because I'm in the process of saving money before I begin any training.
 
JustinB57 said:
Thanks! Unfortunately no, I have yet to start any training because I'm in the process of saving money before I begin any training.
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Well I’m confused. That 1st class med is only good for 12 months (assuming you’re under 40), and then it reverts to 2nd. If you’re not even ready to begin training yet, why the urgency to get a 1st?

It will likely become a 2nd before you will need a 1st class anyway.
 
Half Fast said:
Well I’m confused. That 1st class med is only good for 12 months (assuming you’re under 40), and then it reverts to 2nd. If you’re not even ready to begin training yet, why the urgency to get a 1st?

It will likely become a 2nd before you will need a 1st class anyway.
Click to expand...

I needed to confirm that I was eligible to obtain first class before I poured money into trying to become an airline pilot. Now that I did obtain first class, I know that I can move forward with saving and training.
 
JustinB57 said:
@AggieMike88 Thanks a ton! Really appreciate all the information and I'll be sure to get in touch with my AME and possibly one of both of the AME's you posted if mine is not willing to help.
Click to expand...

Note that many insurance companies require that pilots hold first-class medicals, even if one is not required by the FAA. This is especially true when you get into turboprops and jets. For the great majority of the jobs listed above (not including corporate and airline) a second-class is suffice.

Bob
 
JustinB57 said:
I needed to confirm that I was eligible to obtain first class before I poured money into trying to become an airline pilot. Now that I did obtain first class, I know that I can move forward with saving and training.
Click to expand...

So you only want to fly if you can be an airline pilot?
 
SkyDog58 said:
So you only want to fly if you can be an airline pilot?
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I can't speak for the OP but, surprising as it may be, that's how it goes for a LOT of folks I know in this industry. Most of my acquaintances are pro pilots as well, and most won't touch non-pro flying with a 10 foot pole. Furthermore, for a lot of them, paying for your own flying is anathema. I can't relate to that, but to each their own. Takes all kinds I suppose.

Of course, frequent OSH or the like, and yeah you can't take a p-- downwind and not hit an airline/pro guy with some pretty spendy flying hobby. Personally I think places like OSH are the epitome of confirmation bias, so take that sampling for what it's worth.
 
="Half Fast, post: 2765985, member: 28212"]Well I’m confused. That 1st class med is only good for 12 months (assuming you’re under 40), and then it reverts to 2nd.
Click to expand...
Reverts to 3rd not 2nd.
If you’re not even ready to begin training yet, why the urgency to get a 1st?

It will likely become a 3rd before you will need a 1st class anyway.
Click to expand...
Corrected.
 
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