Kenneth Copeland's New G-V

Hank S said:
I agree 100%. Many posters above do not . . .
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Yep, I get it. These debates usually boil down to some form of an argument against freedom of religion from those who think they have a better answer. Those folks should be a lot more concerning to a free society than the total sum of bad egg preachers.


JKG
 
write-stuff said:
The only difference is that the climate evangelists deal in measurable facts. The church clowns deal in mythology and sleight of hand.
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The mega church evangelists blow millions and millions on G-V's and Citation X's while preaching that their congregation should live frugally and donate excessively to the church.

The Climate evangelists blow **** tons of carbon out of their jets, entourage motorcades and heating the massive outdoor pools of their lavish homes... They are equal hypocrites. Don't even get me started on the "carbon credit" scam.

If you want to say the Hollywood climate evangelists deal in "measurable facts" you have another thing coming. Al Gore and other high profile climate authorities made some strong, alarming claims that have absolutely not come true.
 
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overdrive148 said:
Robert Tilton (another evangelist): "I had enough money to buy a beautiful Cessna Citation Jet...Cash. And since there's so much jealousy in this room tonight that I can feel over this, a few weeks later I bought another one worth 3 times what that one was...Cash. Act happy over my blessing folks."
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His "farting preacher" bit is hilarious.
 
Ravioli said:
You saw it on the links previously. My house is 12 miles south on the same road.

So in theory I know the road to salvation!
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So when ya gonna fly over and do some TO & Ldgs? Public airport. You and @SixPapaCharlie ought to do a video of at least flying over it.
 
Funny that someone in the "forgiveness business" has PPR on is airport.
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Reminds me of this one:

One fine day three men arrived at the Pearly Gates. A Baptist, a Catholic, and a Charismatic.

St Peter greeted them but said that their rooms weren’t ready. Peter called Satan and asked if they could stay with him for a while.

A few hours later Satan calls Peter in a panic. “You’ve got to get these guys out of hell”

Peter was mystified. “What’s wrong?”

“Well, the Baptist is saving everyone, the Catholic is forgiving everyone, and the Charismatic has already raised enough money for air conditioning!”
 
JGoodish said:
How is anyone “gullible” in this case? It sounds as though people sent him money knowing full well that he operates jets. If they didn’t know, that would make them ignorant, not gullible. And that ignorance would be a fault of their own.

If your suggestion that people who donate to televangelists or Christian ministries in general are gullible, then it is you who is ignorant.


JKG
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Sorry, there's a big difference between your neighborhood clergyman and the rock star "evangelists".
 
JGoodish said:
I’m not arguing with you personally, I’m challenging the argument that you’re putting forth.

The reality is that there are charlatans in religion just like every other area of life. There are also really good people. Some of those in ministry who I was led to believe were sketchy turned out to be much different when I looked beyond the popular hearsay and media reports. I cannot say whether the individual in this case would pass that test.

Charitable giving—to both religious and secular organizations—is a very personal, highly subjective decision which is based on the beliefs and desires of the one donating. There’s no way to police those decisions without removing an individual’s freedom to make them.


JKG
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How about lotteries and sweepstakes? They are based on faith, if you will, and are highly regulated.
 
paflyer said:
Sorry, there's a big difference between your neighborhood clergyman and the rock star "evangelists".
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If you were better informed, I suspect that you would be surprised.

It is unfortunately human nature to create and rally around a “cult of personality,” and the church is not immune. It happens in business, politics, entertainment, medicine, aviation, and every other area of life. The neighborhood churches are just as vulnerable as the mega television ministries. Ultimately, the level of accountability usually depends on those who are writing the checks.


JKG
 
dell30rb said:
The mega church evangelists blow millions and millions on G-V's and Citation X's while preaching that their congregation should live frugally and donate excessively to the church.
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That's actually not what the prosperity gospel heretics preach. They tell the gullible masses that if they give enough 'seed' to the preacher similar riches will come their way. They don't tell their flock to be frugal, they tell them not to worry as the good Lord is going to make them rich too.
 
Hank S said:
And if it's OK for the gov't to tell "those people" how to spend or not spend their money, then it must be OK for the gov't to tell "these people" (including you and me) how to spend or not spend their / our money. And I guarandamntee you that you and I won't like that!!
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Isn't that exactly what the government does?
 
paflyer said:
How about lotteries and sweepstakes? They are based on faith, if you will, and are highly regulated.
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They are based on mathematics (though long-shot odds), and the lotto promises nothing but money in return. That’s a bit different that the reasons that most people donate to religious ministries. In addition, it would be constitutionally difficult to regulate religious ministries in the U.S., since regulation always places restrictions on freedom, and attempting to do so would require the government to be an arbiter of religious tenets.


JKG
 
@mscard88 said "You can still do a flyover"

Copeland is a common reporting point going to T67 (Hicks), KFTW (Meacham) and KAFW (Alliance).

Very common to fly over it.

Looks like they do have a couple of IAPs. I don't know anyone that shoots them, low approach only. That would probably tick them off. And the approach controller too since it would be putting them in the mix for Alliance, Denton, and Meacham approach traffic.
 
Ravioli said:
@mscard88 said "You can still do a flyover"

Copeland is a common reporting point going to T67 (Hicks), KFTW (Meacham) and KAFW (Alliance).

Very common to fly over it.

Looks like they do have a couple of IAPs. I don't know anyone that shoots them, low approach only. That would probably tick them off. And the approach controller too since it would be putting them in the mix for Alliance, Denton, and Meacham approach traffic.
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I mean a flyover, ten feet above the runway. They don't own the airspace. Just tape over your N number and do one low pass.
 
JGoodish said:
They are based on mathematics (though long-shot odds), and the lotto promises nothing but money in return. That’s a bit different that the reasons that most people donate to religious ministries. In addition, it would be constitutionally difficult to regulate religious ministries in the U.S., since regulation always places restrictions on freedom, and attempting to do so would require the government to be an arbiter of religious tenets.


JKG
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Not only would it be difficult to regulate it would be wrong. Some things are not the purview of the government.
 
JGoodish said:
If you were better informed, I suspect that you would be surprised.

It is unfortunately human nature to create and rally around a “cult of personality,” and the church is not immune. It happens in business, politics, entertainment, medicine, aviation, and every other area of life. The neighborhood churches are just as vulnerable as the mega television ministries. Ultimately, the level of accountability usually depends on those who are writing the checks.


JKG
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Anyone who supports a "personality" is gullible in my definition. I don't see this in any extent in the Catholic Church, seems to be confined to the protestants. There's no hierarchy of financial accountability and control of the message and how it's delivered.
 
paflyer said:
Anyone who supports a "personality" is gullible in my definition. I don't see this in any extent in the Catholic Church, seems to be confined to the protestants. There's no hierarchy of financial accountability and control of the message and how it's delivered.
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If you honestly believe that the Catholic Church is successful at maintaining control of a singular message, or is capable of in any way being held accountable by the people in the pews (at least those not otherwise well connected), then you either don’t get around much or aren’t paying attention. And there is no bigger cult of personality than those supposedly being led in unity by the Pope.

Not to mention the fact that the Catholic Church has hoarded exponentially more wealth than all of the television evangelists combined.


JKG
 
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JGoodish said:
If you honestly believe that the Catholic Church is successful at maintaining control of a singular message, or is capable of in any way being held accountable by the people in the pews (at least those not otherwise well connected), then you either don’t get around much or aren’t paying attention. And there is no bigger cult of personality than those supposedly being led In unity by the Pope.

Not to mention the fact that the Catholic Church has hoarded exponentially more wealth than all of the television evangelists combined.


JKG
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You are very ignorant regarding the Church.
 
Ravioli said:
@Everskyward: Any locks handy? 104 through 107 are deserving.
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Seems to me that if the entire thread is permitted, nothing so far inside of it qualifies for a “lock,” though I do think that it’s run its course.


JKG
 
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IBTL.
Btw all churches hoard cash or blow mass amounts on toys----just some hide it better than others.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Isn't that exactly what the government does?
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No, the U.S. Gov't doesn't tell me what I must buy or cannot buy, except a brief anomoly when they required everyone to purchase health insurance. But that's ended now. "The people" have never had any say in how taxes are spent, for ever how many millennia the strong man has been collecting them.
 
paflyer said:
And of course if it saves just one soul, isn't it worth it?
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Apparently the soul they are trying to save is their own. It has nothing to do with God. And everything to do with demons. Apparently. :rolleyes:

 
Had brother Ken ask me for a $1,000 check personally a long time ago, he didn't get it. These guys are the worst of the worst scam artists, and it's a perverted message they preach. Too bad the flock continues to get fleeced.......good for jet salesman.....
 
I read years ago that if the churches were taxed, the national deficit could be paid off in one year.
 
If the number of “news” articles matched the number of good things done by churches and bad things, nobody would mind the few charlatans and they’d be drummed out of existence sooner.

Millions of people doing charitable and good things in communities and yet all you ever hear about are the scumbags buying jets.

The Constitution really doesn’t say tax or don’t tax churches, if you read it. And “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s” still applies, so churches being taxed or not is a non-issue.

But what we do know from empirical evidence is that government runs on loans anyway, and saying “something would be paid for if only XYZ paid taxes” is literally a lie. Government doesn’t need incoming revenue to pay for whatever it wants. If it wants something it just takes it, see Eminent Domain.
 
GRG55 said:
Apparently the soul they are trying to save is their own. It has nothing to do with God. And everything to do with demons. Apparently. :rolleyes:

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Isn't that the craziest thing. Most of Hollywood and 1/2 of DC may believe the same thing about the 'tube of demons', at least they are discreet enough not to say it in public.
 
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