Keeping people employed?

[Pi1otguy]

Is it just me or are we approaching the point where we need fewer and fewer people to fill the less skilled jobs? Do we as consumers have to actively introduce inefficiencies to prop up the few remaining low & medium skill jobs that provide a living wage?

For example, the cashier is one of the few low skill jobs remaining that provides a living wage. However, modern tech has introduced self checkouts in which a one cashier supervises customers at 4 automated checkouts. I choose to wait in line for the cashier solely to keep them employed. I can do my own checkout much fast, but it's the principle of it.

Another are customer service agents and those in payment processing centers who process mail. Until this year I purposely mailed my tax forms to the IRS, payed several bills by mail, and showed up in person to certain companies for the sole purpose of keeping someone employed. E-file, epay, and voice recognition is threatening these jobs.

What will we do once most lower end jobs have been eliminated or outsourced?

 

[Tom-D]

the computer beat the hell out of other contestants on Jeopardy the other night, we should vote the village idiot out of office and replace them with a computer. then they can realize how it feels to be unemployed

 

[Matthew]

What will we do once most lower end jobs have been eliminated or outsourced?

I thought that was one of the goals of automation: to "increase leisure time".

I saw this article a couple days ago:

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2011/02/15/will-ibm%e2%80%99s-watson-put-your-job-in-jeopardy/

 

[Bob Noel]

Is it just me or are we approaching the point where we need fewer and fewer people to fill the less skilled jobs? Do we as consumers have to actively introduce inefficiencies to prop up the few remaining low & medium skill jobs that provide a living wage?

For example, the cashier is one of the few low skill jobs remaining that provides a living wage. However, modern tech has introduced self checkouts in which a one cashier supervises customers at 4 automated checkouts. I choose to wait in line for the cashier solely to keep them employed. I can do my own checkout much fast, but it's the principle of it.

Another are customer service agents and those in payment processing centers who process mail. Until this year I purposely mailed my tax forms to the IRS, payed several bills by mail, and showed up in person to certain companies for the sole purpose of keeping someone employed. E-file, epay, and voice recognition is threatening these jobs.

What will we do once most lower end jobs have been eliminated or outsourced?

My experience at the grocery store is that it's quicker to use the cashier rather than the self-service checkout. Of course I go to the cashier/bagger that actually knows that putting the bread in the bag before the gallon of milk is a bad idea. Honestly, I don't know what goes on in the head of some of these baggers.

And please dear God, someone dopeslap the morons that insist on giving us phone menu hell instead of a live person.

What will we do once most lower end jobs have been eliminated or outsourced?

Aren't we already there?

 

[Everskyward]

Is it just me or are we approaching the point where we need fewer and fewer people to fill the less skilled jobs?

Isn't this the way the world has always been? Farmers used animals to plow the fields at one point, then they went to larger and larger mechanized equipment. Consequently, we don't need as many people to produce the same amount of food. Is that bad?

In most cases I prefer the automated option. I often go to the self-checkout and I almost exclusively use ATM machines instead of a teller.

 

[Tom-D]

Aren't we already there?

nope,,,,, " do you want fries with that "

 

[Ted]

In most cases I prefer the automated option. I often go to the self-checkout and I almost exclusively use ATM machines instead of a teller.

You know, I used to feel that way, and when I'm in New York City I still do. However, around here I like going to my bank teller and going through the cashier lines typically. Sometimes I'm feeling antisocial and in a hurry, but it's nice to get the service with a smile.

I suppose after 5 years in a small town, I've come to appreciate small town ways.

 

[Pi1otguy]

Isn't this the way the world has always been? Farmers used animals to plow the fields at one point, then they went to larger and larger mechanized equipment. Consequently, we don't need as many people to produce the same amount of food. Is that bad?

Yes, it is. Machines last longer and longer and require far fewer people to maintain them then those it replaced. In the past they shifted from rural to urban. In the future perhaps there's no jobs left. Our current and foreseeable economic/political system and human nature won't deal well with ample resources but fewer with anything to trade for them. Then what do you do?

In most cases I prefer the automated option. I often go to the self-checkout and I almost exclusively use ATM machines instead of a teller.

I prefer them. They're usually faster and more to the point then people, but sometimes you gotta take it for the team.

 

[tonycondon]

i hate automated checkouts.

 

[SCCutler]

i hate automated checkouts.

Me too.

Ever notice, they all have the same animated woman sliding her credit card, and she's mighty well-endowed. :wink2:

 

[jtheune]

Machines are not really adaptable while people are. Perhaps this trend of fewer low skill jobs will convince people to develop the skills they have or learn new ones. While there is a small percentage of people who cannot learn new skills, for the most part they can if they decide they want to. Deciding to want to and putting in the effort to learn the new skills is the key.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

i hate automated checkouts.

I hate waiting behind some doof to use an automated checkout.

It's really not that hard - I like to push the button for Spanish even though I don't understand a word of it - but people seem to be unable to understand the basics.

But the bottom line is the more efficient things become, the more goods and services each individual can produce, and the better the nation's standard of living becomes.

"Make work" where people get paid for not being productive (or where people get paid for just being old) just doesn't work.

 

[Everskyward]

You know, I used to feel that way, and when I'm in New York City I still do. However, around here I like going to my bank teller and going through the cashier lines typically. Sometimes I'm feeling antisocial and in a hurry, but it's nice to get the service with a smile.

I suppose after 5 years in a small town, I've come to appreciate small town ways.

I even use the ATM and automated checkout in my small town of about 1,000 people....

 

[Everskyward]

Yes, it is. Machines last longer and longer and require far fewer people to maintain them then those it replaced. In the past they shifted from rural to urban. In the future perhaps there's no jobs left. Our current and foreseeable economic/political system and human nature won't deal well with ample resources but fewer with anything to trade for them. Then what do you do?

On the other hand, think of what food would cost if you still needed the same amount of manpower to produce it. Then you would have the problem of lower paid laborers not being able to afford what they produce.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

It's really not that hard - I like to push the button for Spanish even though I don't understand a word of it - but people seem to be unable to understand the basics.

Might not be that hard, but I am about 60/40 with it. 60% of the time I have problems and need help vs the 40% that it does work as advertised.

Unless I have two or three real simple items I will go through the regular line. Otherwise I will gamble that I am in the 40% with the self checkout.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Might not be that hard, but I am about 60/40 with it. 60% of the time I have problems and need help vs the 40% that it does work as advertised.

Unless I have two or three real simple items I will go through the regular line. Otherwise I will gamble that I am in the 40% with the self checkout.

You gotta stop putting your purse in the bagging area. That always brings things to a halt...:wink2:

Then there is the stuff that doesn't want to scan. That's when it really pays off to press the "spanish" button - when the cashier comes to help, the instructions telling them what is wrong are in spanish too.

 

[flyersfan31]

I hate automated checkout. Virtually every time it grinds to a halt because it didn't detect that I had placed my item in the bagging area. Frickin' hassle.

ATM?? Love 'em. 24hrs, no attitude, no line. What's not to like?

 

[Everskyward]

I hate automated checkout. Virtually every time it grinds to a halt because it didn't detect that I had placed my item in the bagging area. Frickin' hassle.

All you do is press, "skip bagging". Automatic checkout is good. It beats having to listen to someone stumble over my last name all the time. Stupid policy seems to have started at Safeway a number of years ago and is spreading....

 

[ClimbnSink]

Make optimal choices for yourself, let people keep more of their money, and the market will find something for everyone to do. The idea that every will be mechanized out of work is silly. Those hot check out girls will always have the option of stripping.:wink2:

 

[Doggtyred]

For example, the cashier is one of the few low skill jobs remaining that provides a living wage. However, modern tech has introduced self checkouts in which a one cashier supervises customers at 4 automated checkouts. I choose to wait in line for the cashier solely to keep them employed. I can do my own checkout much fast, but it's the principle of it.

I do this too. I do not get a discount for scanning and bagging my groceries/purchases, so I do not do their job for them. Its very very rare I use the self checkout.

 

[Henning]

Is it just me or are we approaching the point where we need fewer and fewer people to fill the less skilled jobs? Do we as consumers have to actively introduce inefficiencies to prop up the few remaining low & medium skill jobs that provide a living wage?

For example, the cashier is one of the few low skill jobs remaining that provides a living wage. However, modern tech has introduced self checkouts in which a one cashier supervises customers at 4 automated checkouts. I choose to wait in line for the cashier solely to keep them employed. I can do my own checkout much fast, but it's the principle of it.

Another are customer service agents and those in payment processing centers who process mail. Until this year I purposely mailed my tax forms to the IRS, payed several bills by mail, and showed up in person to certain companies for the sole purpose of keeping someone employed. E-file, epay, and voice recognition is threatening these jobs.

What will we do once most lower end jobs have been eliminated or outsourced?

That won't happen until the average ability of the population to be mass consumers becomes hindered, and we've got a long way to fall till then thanks to cheap Chinese goods. Until then, every bit of western economies to be funneled into China and India to grow the consumer base there. What we're actually doing is using Business Sector forced Global Communism on the nationalistic scale to take the economic surplus (that beyond what is "required" for life and a few luxuries) from half a billion people and spread it across another 4 billion to grow them into fine consumers and raise corporate profits.

 

[wsuffa]

Me too.

Ever notice, they all have the same animated woman sliding her credit card, and she's mighty well-endowed. :wink2:

Everything's bigger in Texas, doncha know, Spike

I hate the automated checkouts, too. They undoubtedly take longer and cause more issues "Unexpected item in the bagging area, please remove it and try again" than manned checkout lines.

 

[Henning]

Everything's bigger in Texas, doncha know, Spike

I hate the automated checkouts, too. They undoubtedly take longer and cause more issues "Unexpected item in the bagging area, please remove it and try again" than manned checkout lines.

I end up using them because they encourage me to by not staffing enough cashiers. All the people with carts full are lined up with the checkers so I take my basket to the auto deals. Actually, they work well for me.

 

[rpadula]

Me too.

Ever notice, they all have the same animated woman sliding her credit card, and she's mighty well-endowed. :wink2:

Everything's bigger in Texas, doncha know, Spike

Hmm, I must be shopping at the wrong stores. I don't think I've seen "her" before.

I hate the automated checkouts, too. They undoubtedly take longer and cause more issues "Unexpected item in the bagging area, please remove it and try again" than manned checkout lines.

You know what really makes 'em go ape****? Scanning a bottle of ketchup right after scanning a package of hot dogs.

 

[wsuffa]

You know what really makes 'em go ape****? Scanning a bottle of ketchup right after scanning a package of hot dogs.

I thought it was putting the lime and the coconut together.....

 

[AuntPeggy]

i hate automated checkouts.

I have never used one.

But, in 1974, I was using an ATM.

 

[SkyHog]

I think this is a good thing. Not to get too deep into spin zone, but it proves a very strong point I've been trying to make: Minimum wage is a bad thing because it overpays some people. Cashiers are one of those people. Machines do the job just as well and cost a lot less than minimum wage does. If Cashiers were able to be paid what their job is worth, they'd still have jobs.

My problem with the automated machines is "Undetected item in the bagging area." Whether you skip bagging or not, if it picks up some foreign object in the bagging area (even when there's none there), it yells at you and won't let you proceed.

Once that bug is fixed, I think self-checkout will speed up. Right now, old people suck at it. When they die off, things will improve at the self-checkout.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Thanks, Nick. Guess I'll just stay out of that lane.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Right now, old people suck at it. When they die off, things will improve at the self-checkout.

Thanks. Thanks a lot.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Right now, old people suck at it. When they die off, things will improve at the self-checkout.

Geez, Nick!

 

[tonycondon]

I don't understand why the machine cares what if anything is in the bagging area...

 

[SkyHog]

I don't mean that old people need to die off, and that its a good thing when they do. That came off harsh (typing quickly as I ran off to a meeting bit me in the butt there).

What I mean is that old people aren't very good with new technology (my late Grandmother was an exception, but a rare one). As they move on to the next realm, today's youngsters will be the old people, and they'll have had their whole lives exposed to this technology, and it becomes natural for everyone, young or old.

Its just the way things work, and always has. I'm sure that the cotton gin folk that used to do it by hand had the same problem.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I don't understand why the machine cares what if anything is in the bagging area...

Seriously?

That's how they know you didn't stick something in the bag unscanned - no unaccounted for weight.

Stop putting your purse on the scale / bagging area.

 

[Pi1otguy]

I think this is a good thing. Not to get too deep into spin zone, but it proves a very strong point I've been trying to make: Minimum wage is a bad thing because it overpays some people. Cashiers are one of those people. Machines do the job just as well and cost a lot less than minimum wage does. If Cashiers were able to be paid what their job is worth, they'd still have jobs.

Then what jobs are left for those who don't have a valuable skill? It's rather silly to imply that nearly everyone should have to get more then a high school diploma just to make it through life.

 

[murphey]

I don't understand why the machine cares what if anything is in the bagging area...

Because the system is weight-based to minimize fraud. You'll notice the bagging area has a plastic plate in the midst of the stainless steel platform - that's the sensor. It's keyed to the SKU and quantity (if needed). And that's why there's a "Skip Bagging" button.

The original system was built on WinNT - don't know if it upgraded to XP Pro or not.

As for Nick's ageist remarks - y'know, some of the "old people" as you put it, have been dealing with technology most of their lives. In fact, they invented that technoloy.

 

[tonycondon]

I guess i never imagined that if i was going to steal something i'd put it in the bag.

 

[SkyHog]

Then what jobs are left for those who don't have a valuable skill? It's rather silly to imply that nearly everyone should have to get more then a high school diploma just to make it through life.

You touched on part 2 of my opinion that I've said before:

High School Diploma as a "minimum requirement" for many jobs is silly. Most jobs that currently require a college degree shouldn't require that either.

Honestly, why does a janitor need a high school diploma? Or a car mechanic for that matter? Why does a computer operator need to have a degree? Why does a computer repairman need a degree?

None of those make sense, it drives education requirements up, and it drives pay up. It also leaves those behind that have the requisite knowledge and skill, but lack the education that they "need."

 

[steingar]

We don't respect skilled trades in this country, though why I can't imagine.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

You touched on part 2 of my opinion that I've said before:

High School Diploma as a "minimum requirement" for many jobs is silly. Most jobs that currently require a college degree shouldn't require that either.

Honestly, why does a janitor need a high school diploma? Or a car mechanic for that matter? Why does a computer operator need to have a degree? Why does a computer repairman need a degree?

None of those make sense, it drives education requirements up, and it drives pay up. It also leaves those behind that have the requisite knowledge and skill, but lack the education that they "need."

Henry Ford didn't have a high school diploma. He couldn't get a job at Ford Motor Company now if his life depended on it.

 

[SkyHog]

Henry Ford didn't have a high school diploma. He couldn't get a job at Ford Motor Company now if his life depended on it.

Exactly my point! If you don't mind, that's going to be part of my argument in the future on this.