Just 1 simple question...

[SkyHog]

Didn't say it was different. Just don't confuse being militarily weaker with being savages with no culture.

touche'.

 

[Dart]

Ya'll Indian bashers do realize, don't you, that they had managed to survive here for a few thousand years quite happily, right?

Happily??? I think the uncounted thousands of twelve year old virgins sacrificed to Quetzlequatol might disagree with you. Ever hear of the Caribs??? I think the the victims of a Plains Indian raid might also disagree. You do know what the Plains Indians modos operandi was, right??? It works something like this "Screw farming, we have horses!!!"

My point was, and is, that it is wrong to look back at these culture with rose-colored glasses. That it is wrong to trash Western civilization as somehow, less noble, than tribal cultures. And in particular, that it is wrong to single out white or Christian culture as the raison d'eter for all today's problems.

That they did, indeed, have their own sets of laws and morals which, unlike many of us, they lived by? No white man, or Hispanics for that matter, Dart, has any business yakking about tribal warfare, either....

I have as much business to yak as you do Joe.

If you want equate virgin sacrificing, baby eating, cannibal pagans with modern western civ then fine, just back it up with something. A fancy pyramid and kooky calendar ain't enough. BTW, I'm not trashing Indians, ALL tribalistic cultures suffer the same problems. Actaully, if you had read carefully, what I AM trashing is the "rose -colored" glasses method of historical interpretation. You know: "white man bad, brown man good". It is no more than the "new racism".

might want to pay a visit to a place like Gettysburg or Normandy, where white men butchered each other by the hundreds of thousands in our versions of tribal warfare, before you start ragging on some tribal raids.

Is Arlington good enough for you Joe? Otherwise, please prepare an itinerary of where YOU think I need to vacation.

Everybody, butchers. Let's not be naive. However, the modern social system of Nation-State-city tends to war over resources not, family "honor". Modern nations have the legal structures to sustain alliances for extended periods, something impossible for tibal cultures. Again, it's not a question of worth, it is an issue of socio-biological reality.

The "west" needed resources, Africa and America had them. Their tribal cultures made it impossible for them to present a united front against Europeans, and they lost. That is how it is. Africa alone among the great continents still clings to tribalism, it just doesn't seem to be working for them either. Islam, after a three to five hundred year golden period of ending Arab tribalism, fell (and continues to fall) back into it. Doesn't seem to be working for them either.

The very nature of the end of the Indian culture calls into question just which was more worthwhile.

The "peacable kingdom" fantasy of "Indian Culture" needs to collapse. There was no peacable "Indian Culture"! It was a melange of tribles and nations. Some were peacable (like the tribes that helped the Pilgrims), some were relatively advanced technologically but were brutal warriors and pagans (like the Inca), and some were totally primitive, cannabalistic, savage raiders (like the Caribs). Most of which were in constant battles with other tribes for valuable land and resorces - just like today.

Again, I wasn't debating worth. All life is of equal value to God. I think most biologists and historians will however, agree that in any conflict the most advanced technolgy (all things being equal) tends to run over the lessor. It's nature.

First the Spanish, then white, men gunned down and gutted women and children, engaged in biological warfare.

Ummm, now it is your ignorant racism that is showing. The Spanish are primarily white. Spain was originally settled by (of all things!) Nordic Fins. It wasn't until the brief Moorish conquest (Islamofacism of old) that Spain mixed with African Muslims. My mom and I have green eyes and she is so white she breaks out in hives if she's in the noon sun for half-an-hour.

Murder, rape, infanticide, lies... the truth about how the West was won. Since we are taking off the rose colored glasses.

What? Indians did not rape, murder, lie??? As a soldier you know more than most that that is how ALL conquests were (are) won. I understand the Indians got a raw deal, I'm sure the Caananites, the Amalekites, and the Edomites feel the same way.

 

[alaskaflyer]

So, your position is, to the victor belong the spoils?

Well, then, when Hispanics constitute 51% of the population in a few years, I don't want to hear any more bitching about English as our official language.

And I am prepared already, I speak Spanish.

 

[Anthony]

And I am prepared already, I speak Spanish.

I am prepared already, I have Class III weapons.

 

[SkyHog]

So, your position is, to the victor belong the spoils?

Well, then, when Hispanics constitute 51% of the population in a few years, I don't want to hear any more bitching about English as our official language.

And I am prepared already, I speak Spanish.

I agree with you Alaska. THAT is why we need to stop it NOW, rather than follow the same fate of the Native Americans. I don't want to live in the new extended Mexico.

 

[alaskaflyer]

You already live in the old extended Mexico. From their perspective they are simply reclaiming what is theirs.

Most of this debate is due to a lack of historical perspective.

 

[SkyHog]

You already live in the old extended Mexico. From their perspective they are simply reclaiming what is theirs.

Most of this debate is due to a lack of historical perspective.

Heh. True. But, we won that war. They'd have to come take it back. Which is what they're doing, unless we stop them.

Wonder what they'd call this place. "New America"?

edit: forgot the

 

[Dart]

Well, then, when Hispanics constitute 51% of the population in a few years, I don't want to hear any more bitching about English as our official language.

And I am prepared already, I speak Spanish.

Yo tambien hablo espanol. Pero si me quejaria contra qualqier atempto a cambiar la cultura existente. Por lo tanto, aun que hablo el idioma y conosco la cultura, no deseo que una invasion ilegal cambie el caracter de mi patria.

Soy nacido en la E.U., es my patria y la adoro. Inclusive, soy orgulloso de su historia anglo-saxona. El systema heredado de los Ingleses es, en mi opinion, superior.

God bless the U.S.A.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Yo tambien hablo espanol. Pero si me quejaria contra qualqier atempto a cambiar la cultura existente. Por lo tanto, aun que hablo el idioma y conosco la cultura, no deseo que una invasion ilegal cambie el caracter de mi patria.

Soy nacido en la E.U., es my patria y la adoro. Inclusive, soy orgulloso de su historia anglo-saxona. El systema heredado de los Ingleses es, en mi opinion, superior.

God bless the U.S.A.

Pero estamos en los Estados Unidos, no en Europa. Los Estados Unidos ha tenido muchas culturas (los españoles más notable posibles.) Somos en el momento solamente uno de esas culturas, y las culturas definen una lengua, una lengua no definen culturas.

 

[Dart]

Pero estamos en los Estados Unidos, no en Europa. Los Estados Unidos ha tenido muchas culturas (los españoles más notable posibles.) Somos en el momento solamente uno de esas culturas, y las culturas definen una lengua, una lengua no definen culturas.

Norte America a tenido varias culturas dominante. Pero Los Estados Unidos fue del empesar, y sigue igualmente, un pais definido por un contrato (la "Constitucion") de origen Europea. (El documento propio es original pero los pricipios son del la Magna Carta, la reforma Protestante y a revolucion y republica Frances.)

No te discuto que si el pueblo alcanza una mayoria Hispana y desea cambiar el idioma seria completamente legal. Pero, en mi opinion, no creo que seria deseable, y ademas creo que seria danino a la nacion.

By the way, ya got some damn good spanish for a white boy.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Norte America a tenido varias culturas dominante. Pero Los Estados Unidos fue del empesar, y sigue igualmente, un pais definido por un contrato (la "Constitucion") de origen Europea. (El documento propio es original pero los pricipios son del la Magna Carta, la reforma Protestante y a revolucion y republica Frances.)

No te discuto que si el pueblo alcanza una mayoria Hispana y desea cambiar el idioma seria completamente legal. Pero, en mi opinion, no creo que seria deseable, y ademas creo que seria danino a la nacion.

By the way, ya got some damn good spanish for a white boy.

Gracias.

Signifiqué "Estados Unidos" en el sentido geográfico, no político.

Pero,

quien paga manda. Estamos aquí hoy, estarán aquí mañana. Pero será los Estados Unidos. En lugar seremos discurso español y celebración del "cuatro de julio" not "Fourth of July."

 

[river_rat]

Gracias.

Signifiqué "Estados Unidos" en el sentido geográfico, no político.

Pero,

quien paga manda. Estamos aquí hoy, ellos estaremos aquí mañana. Pero será los Estados Unidos. En lugar seremos discurso español y celebración del "cuarto de julio" not "Fourth of July."

1

 

[alaskaflyer]

1

ROFL!

 

[rmciottijr]

Adam this made National News

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060608140209990009&ncid=NWS00010000000001