John Young flown west

Van Johnston

Van Johnston

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Van Johnston
First Gemini mission, first Space Shuttle mission. Flew to moon twice. God speed.
 
Yeah just saw that tonight. What a life. Watching the discovery series “When We Left Earth” right now. RIP.
 
Amazing man. What a life. Truly one of the greatest Ramblin' Wrecks. RIP
 
Zeldman said:
Only 5 men that walked on the moon are still alive.
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We're very close to - once again - not having a single person on this planet that has stepped foot off of it.
 
Zeldman said:
Only 5 men that walked on the moon are still alive.
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And sadly they'll all be gone before (if) we eve
Zeldman said:
I am afraid you are right.
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I feel gypped.

When I was 10 years old I was certain we'd be doing this by the time I was "old."

2001_space_odyssey_lunar_surface.jpeg
 
There are men and then there are Astronauts

I recall reading that John Young was known as the Astronauts Astronaut !

RIP Sir
 
Xscaliber said:
There are men and then there are Astronauts

I recall reading that John Young was known as the Astronauts Astronaut !

RIP Sir
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That he was. Never quite got the recognition that some of the other well known astronauts got, but nonetheless, he was a special person.

RIP.
 
The names Crippen and Young were always about as close to “heroes” of mine as they come. Shuttle was amazing.

Later in life reading that Young saved numerous programs and solved numerous problems nobody else would bother tackling at NASA was just the icing on the cake. He thought differently than the crowd there and people listened when he piped up with a potential problem in a management meeting. Or so I’ve read.

RIP.
 
denverpilot said:
The names Crippen and Young were always about as close to “heroes” of mine as they come. Shuttle was amazing.

Later in life reading that Young saved numerous programs and solved numerous problems nobody else would bother tackling at NASA was just the icing on the cake. He thought differently than the crowd there and people listened when he piped up with a potential problem in a management meeting. Or so I’ve read.
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Astronaut Mike Mullane, in his book "Riding Rockets," had a negative opinion of him as a manager.

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
Astronaut Mike Mullane, in his book "Riding Rockets," had a negative opinion of him as a manager.
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Have read that opinion elsewhere too, not to speak poorly of the dead or anything.

Think it had more to do with the standard problem of giving engineering heads titles to match the level of authority level they want the person to have over things, but then it comes with supervisory duties which is a whole different ball of wax. He may have been an awful “manager” because they left supervisory duties on that title and really meant to make him what many companies today might label “architect” or “subject matter expert”. Often related to too much structural resistance around making up titles, or mandatory titles, too.

Don’t know. Just guesses. Since I don’t work at NASA and got out of my “big strange bureaucracy” company sized work, many years ago.

Personally I ask for the title, “Internet Janitor” everyplace I work now, but they usually give me something much more boring and less accurate. :)
 
wanttaja said:
Astronaut Mike Mullane, in his book "Riding Rockets," had a negative opinion of him as a manager.
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How many 'good engineers' have you encountered in your career who ended up mediocre managers once they got promoted ?
 
weilke said:
How many 'good engineers' have you encountered in your career who ended up mediocre managers once they got promoted ?
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A better question might be how many good managers have had an employee with a negative opinion of them? Management isn't about making everyone have a good opinion of you, it is about delivering the products the employer requires.
 
I interviewed him a number of times about 20 years ago for a book. He was a no-BS straight-shooter, not afraid to speak his mind. He never received the public recognition he deserved. He was arguably the most accomplished astronaut of his day - and maybe of all time. Six flights into space in three different programs. Twice to the moon. Hard to beat a record like that.
 
weilke said:
How many 'good engineers' have you encountered in your career who ended up mediocre managers once they got promoted ?
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Took a class on it once, designed to help engineers make the transition from hard skills to soft skills.

The class was pretty squishy. But the contract training company certainly charged plenty of hard cash for it to my employer, which may or may not have been worth it. Ha.

They didn’t give any numbers on how many had problems, and if they did, I’m sure it would be high — since that’s how they’d get more business for the class. :)
 
weilke said:
How many 'good engineers' have you encountered in your career who ended up mediocre managers once they got promoted ?
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Most of them were actually pretty good managers. I can think of two in particular (worked for/with them for roughly 40% of my Boeing career), who I'd worked with as an engineer and after they became management. Pretty good guys.

~10 years ago, a young woman two years out of college was added to the group that I was lead engineer for. When I retired last year, she was my manager...and doing a pretty good job. Talking to her, it looks like Boeing has some pretty heavy-duty training for managers. They have some pretty solid templates within which a manager is expected to act.

In my career, I worked for 2-3 managers who converted BACK to the engineering ranks. Most of the time it was a desire to get away from the BS, and the fact that the company took advantage of the fact that managers weren't paid overtime. Both of them were actually pretty good guys to work for. One of them was my manager when I was lead engineer, and we BOTH ended up working for the young lady.

That said, I don't argue very strongly against your comment. Engineers typically read the book, "ABCs of Working with People" from A to A. I have known engineers who made lousy managers. In one case (at another company), I was actually promoted to management under him, to provide a reasonable human to interface with the engineers. Friends wonder that I don't watch "The Big Bang Theory." It's not as funny in real life.

IIRC from Mullane's book (an excellent read, by the way), he felt Young played dominance games with the astronauts under him. Young picked who would fly each mission, and Mullane felt Young took advantage of that.

Ron Wanttaja
 
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weilke said:
How many 'good engineers' have you encountered in your career who ended up mediocre managers once they got promoted ?
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Frankly many don't rise to "mediocre". It's a whole different skill set. Mind you, it's easier to get the respect of the engineers you manage if you are also known to be a competent engineer, but that never means a good engineer will make a good manager. Some do, some don't.
 
Clark1961 said:
A better question might be how many good managers have had an employee with a negative opinion of them? Management isn't about making everyone have a good opinion of you, it is about delivering the products the employer requires.
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True, but only part of the story. Another part of a managers job is retaining and keeping happy the folks who deliver the products the employer requires. You wan't make everyone happy, but you darn sure better make the key players happy enough to keep producing.

John
I am a CTO. When asked, I tell people that I used to be an engineer but now I'm a technical kibitzer.
 
I think the reason that Young was not a household name like many astronauts is that he was neither a first nor involved on a catastrophe or near catastrophe.

He wasn't first in space, first to orbit, first to walk on the moon (or last), first woman, first black, etc. He also wasn't one of the Mercury 7 so he wasn't in The Right Stuff.

He also wasn't on missions such as Apollo 1 (obviously) or Apollo 13. He also wasn't just a publicity stunt teacher in space.

There have been over 300 American astronauts. How many are household names?

It isn't necessarily how much one contributes or how importantly one contributes that ensures fame. It's what sort of hoopla surrounds what you do. Fair? No. Understandable? Sorta.
 
IIRC he was first to command the Space Shuttle, was definitely on the first flight. I'll never forget seeing it make a perfect first landing. There is also a "John Young Parkway" in Orlando. As far as I'm concerned, he was pretty famous!
 
jsstevens said:
Frankly many don't rise to "mediocre". It's a whole different skill set. Mind you, it's easier to get the respect of the engineers you manage if you are also known to be a competent engineer, but that never means a good engineer will make a good manager. Some do, some don't.
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Same applies to any profession. There are great surgeons who can't manage their way out of a wet paper bag.
 
Croomrider said:
IIRC he was first to command the Space Shuttle, was definitely on the first flight. I'll never forget seeing it make a perfect first landing. There is also a "John Young Parkway" in Orlando. As far as I'm concerned, he was pretty famous!
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You are right! For some reason I forgot that.
 
write-stuff said:
He also flew on GT-3, the first Gemini flight.
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Damn... was I ever off base. I did a quick reread of his history and saw that he was on Gemini 3. I didn't realize or recall that 1 & 2 were unmanned. I should just delete my error laden post. That's embarrassing.
 
I don't care what kind of manager or engineer he was. The man had balls of steel that any of us can be jealous of.
 
I could never decide if those early astronauts who climbed onto those rockets were brave or just plain crazy. Probably a little or lot of both.
 
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