JetBlue Shakes Up Pilot Hiring by Training Them From Scratch

Ooohhhhhhh.....Will they take 40 year olds with a ppl?
 
Prospective pilots would pay for their own training.
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TANSTAAFL And no mention if there will be any income earning time/opportunity during training period.

But the I guess the main benefit to the pilot is a FO seat at the end of the training. But I wonder if the pay scale for these FO's is same or better as the low ranges we have heard reported from other carriers.
 
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Hmm, if there is a pilot shortage, it appears that Jet Blue is attempting to hedge the rate hikes that invariably accompany any skilled labor shortage by putting more qualified candidates into the pool. Other airlines will probably follow suit.
 
I wonder if they will require a contract (we train you; you must work for us x years or pay us back).
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Same as the military who would prefer you have no prior training. German airlines also.
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It is a program that works, might not be what most would like but whatever works the best is what the airlines will go with. The path now to the Airlines has shown it is not perfect, a few that should have been weeded out got through. Also makes me wonder about a few around here. :rofl:
 
Didn't Pan Am do this years ago?
 
PaulS said:
Hmm, if there is a pilot shortage, it appears that Jet Blue is attempting to hedge the rate hikes that invariably accompany any skilled labor shortage by putting more qualified candidates into the pool. Other airlines will probably follow suit.
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This. Though I'm not sure if it's necessarily born out of a desire to control labor pay as much as it is to ensure labor is available. Some airlines have already canceled flights due to labor shortage and no hike in crew pay made up for the fact that the airplanes couldn't fly and no revenue could be generated. Based on current FAA work rules, there were simply no available crews to fly them. It's not a bad idea. There are multiple good and bad outcomes.

Not fleshed out, here are two examples:
Good: More pilots available = better work environment for all pilots

Bad: Young, inexperienced pilots willing to work in bad job/pay conditions because they don't know any better and want the job = worse work environment for all pilots and less bargaining power.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Same as the military who would prefer you have no prior training. German airlines also.
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Military may not be looking for folks with an ATP, but they definitely prefer prior training. USAF gives applicants for pilot slots significant credit for flight hours, and recently increased the credit given.

I would imagine JetBlue will be looking for the same: PPLs, maybe with an Instrument Rating, who have picked up some fundamentals on their own dime but have not become ingrained in the culture of a particular operation yet. Some zero-time folks may be considered, but as the Air Force found out a some civil experience translates to better chances of passing later training, so it helps weed out candidates without investing in them!
 
American Eagle has a Pipeline Program for CFIs. You interview once as an instructor, receive seniority number, AA benefits and progress through Eagle to American in a few years.
 
TUPilot said:
Military may not be looking for folks with an ATP, but they definitely prefer prior training. USAF gives applicants for pilot slots significant credit for flight hours, and recently increased the credit given.
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Truth.
 
PaulS said:
Hmm, if there is a pilot shortage, it appears that Jet Blue is attempting to hedge the rate hikes that invariably accompany any skilled labor shortage by putting more qualified candidates into the pool. Other airlines will probably follow suit.
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Well less qualified actually, I'm a firm believer that a ATP should start off in smaller simpler aircraft single pilot and work his way up, zero to hero has historically had some issues.

Also a great way to build slave labor, how long are their training bonds/contracts.

Ill scratch JetBlue off my list of airlines I'll fly, at least Alaska and Virgin seem to run a good ship.

Pretty sad that they would go through all this trouble vs just paying a proper wage, plenty of ATPs out there would would work for them if the pay matched the job.
 
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James331 said:
Well less qualified actually, I'm a firm believer that a ATP should start off in smaller simpler aircraft single pilot and work his way up, zero to hero has historically had some issues.

Also a great way to build slave labor, how long are their training bonds/contracts.

Ill scratch JetBlue off my list of airlines I'll fly, at least Alaska and Virgin seem to run a good ship.

Pretty sad that they would go through all this trouble vs just paying a proper wage, plenty of ATPs out there would would work for them if the pay matched the job.
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Hit the nail on the head!!!

Nobody with half a brain on here should be mentioning the words "pilot shortage". Shortage of pilots willing to work for peanuts, sure. Not surprised to see JetBlue doing this, they are I think the lowest paid of all majors. As a passenger I've been unimpressed as well and the pilots I know complain about the company quite a bit more than others.

I guess if it's done safely which it obviously will be, I can't say I have a problem with it but the long term implications it will have for the pilot labor market, costs of training, etc are unknown. One May reason it would bring down the cost of out of pocket training but that is not the case in countries where this type of hiring is commonplace. Perhaps different factors at play.
 
James331 said:
Well less qualified actually, I'm a firm believer that a ATP should start off in smaller simpler aircraft single pilot and work his way up, zero to hero has historically had some issues.

Also a great way to build slave labor, how long are their training bonds/contracts.

Ill scratch JetBlue off my list of airlines I'll fly, at least Alaska and Virgin seem to run a good ship.

Pretty sad that they would go through all this trouble vs just paying a proper wage, plenty of ATPs out there would would work for them if the pay matched the job.
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I agree most with this. Quite frankly, in my opinion, every pilot who flies part 121, even as a FO, should have several hundred hours at least of single pilot IFR in real weather flying freight or charter in piston aircraft.

They really need to have a few "oh ****" moments in the part 135 world, with no one to look to to help them make command decisions, before they have anything to do with flying the paying public, who absolutely deserve the highest possible level of safety.

Bottom line is that there is NOT a pilot shortage. What there is, is a shortage of pilots willing to fly for such low pay.
 
I'm surprised that this hasn't been the norm for decades now. Does the military get it's pilots from training academies? It seems to me that the way it is done now is inefficient. There is way too much time with future airline pilots flying around in piston airplanes. With today's simulators, there is very little need for starting in a Cessna 152 and droning around as an instructor.

Add to this that the training mills seem to be making a nice profit, well then, why not have the airline make that same profit? Why not add to the bottom line?
 
This is being attempted in order to lock in employees. Jetblue has de facto high TT minimums which is way higher than the top 4 mainline operators, which happen to pay much better and offer better retirement benefits. Why you ask? Because that TT requirement fits a demographic of many regional FOs with too much SIC and no/little TPIC. The Jetblue FO has no lateral options outside the regionals because they lack substantive TPIC. That is the demographic Jetblue wants and they don't want to become a trampoline operation by offering A320 time and experience to candidates that will have the ability to jump ship to places like Delta/United if given the chance, but otherwise merely flocked Jetblue in order to escape regional hell.

This ab initio thing is an expansion of that policy, creating FOs with no lateral options and with a certain degree of indentured servitude.

There is no pilot shortage, only a shortage of qualified pilots willing to work for low 5 figures. If Jetblue paid United rates this program wouldn't even be a thought. Nothing new under the sun.
 
Dav8or said:
I'm surprised that this hasn't been the norm for decades now. Does the military get it's pilots from training academies? It seems to me that the way it is done now is inefficient. There is way too much time with future airline pilots flying around in piston airplanes. With today's simulators, there is very little need for starting in a Cessna 152 and droning around as an instructor.

Add to this that the training mills seem to be making a nice profit, well then, why not have the airline make that same profit? Why not add to the bottom line?
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Because that training cost is carried by the applicant. American companies have no incentive to carry that cost, although regionals are starting to figure they're having to carry the burden of the CTP portion of the new ATP requirements. American flight training is much more cost-accessible to applicants than training in Europe. That's why Europe does ab initio to a greater degree. It also means less kids have their lolipop dreams of becoming airline pilots validated, unlike their American dreamer counterparts. The sheer number of regional pilots who exit the industry with their tail between their legs after 10 years would actually surprise you. It's just not talked about much because we are optimism biased as a species, we hate hearing downer stories, which is why our social means of communication only support thumbs-UP "like" buttons. We filter bad news at our own peril every day.

Your comparison to military ab initio is not really applicable. The discriminating factors and screening is much more biased in the military, even compared to European ab initio. The pilot production in the current military branches is also paltry compared to the attrition of mandatory retirements at the airlines. The equipment used in the military is much more expensive (lot more flight hours in actual aircraft, compared to Europe), so as a demographic they're really in a category all on their own. Lastly and to your point about profitability in training, the military is a wasteful inefficiency, our training costs would make any CEO get fired within a week. But the military is not a business, we are a wasteful instrument of our Country's foreign policy, and we have a crazy budget to employ in order to empower our people to kill the enemy and break their sh$t. We waste money like a Middle Eastern airline, but we get the job relatively done, so par for the course. The European ab initio programs would be more appropriate to what you're talking about.
 
tinygiant said:
Not fleshed out, here are two examples:
Good: More pilots available = better work environment for all pilots
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I think you have that backwards. The more pilots there are available the more leverage the airline has to cut pay, decrease benefits, etc. If one guy won't put up with that crap, there are more waiting in line behind him. More pilots available is great for the airline, not so much for the pilots.
 
AggieMike88 said:
TANSTAAFL And no mention if there will be any income earning time/opportunity during training period.

But the I guess the main benefit to the pilot is a FO seat at the end of the training. But I wonder if the pay scale for these FO's is same or better as the low ranges we have heard reported from other carriers.
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Low pay ? I guess you've heard stuff from ten years ago because it goes up pretty quickly nowadays.
 
neilki said:
American Eagle has a Pipeline Program for CFIs. You interview once as an instructor, receive seniority number, AA benefits and progress through Eagle to American in a few years.
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i guess your idea of a few and mine are different. I have a 1999 hire date and am still about 30 numbers away from flowing.......
 
Necro post. Copied from www.avweb.com.

Jet Blue has launched an ab initio training program that it hopes will help to diversify its hiring pool and also give the company control over a pilot's training from start to finish. The four-year program, which has been in the works since last year, is now accepting online applicants, at a cost of $125,000. "We are currently exploring multiple options for financial assistance," the company said, "to help alleviate monetary barriers." The ideal applicant, the company says, would already have a college degree, but no previous flight experience is required. Applicants will undergo a range of tests and assessments, and 24 will be offered a slot in the program. They will be trained in a series of small groups, with the first group expected to begin training late this summer. Graduates are guaranteed a job with JetBlue.

JetBlue said it will partner with CAE to help deliver the curriculum. Students will begin with four weeks of training with JetBlue in Orlando, then continue at CAE's flight academy in Phoenix for 30 weeks, to complete their private pilot training. They will return to JetBlue to train in the Embraer 190 and earn their ATP. After another 12 weeks in Phoenix, trainees will earn their CFI, then work at CAE as salaried instructors until they log 1,500 hours. Once all requirements are met, the trainee will become a new hire at JetBlue, and join a six-week orientation class to become an E190 first officer. "We believe this is going to be an important part of how airlines are going to create pilots in the future," CAE President Nick Leontidis told The Associated Press. The pilots union for JetBlue does not support the plan, saying JetBlue should instead hire pilots working at regional airlines, who currently get passed over. The program is the first of its kind for a U.S. airline. Similar programs overseas generally are free for the applicants.

The application portal is now online. Applicants can submit an application, then are given information about completing application essays. If they are then invited to complete the assessment, a $200 fee is required. Applicants must then obtain a first-class FAA medical certificate to qualify for an on-site


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I think this training program idea is parallel to the situation going on with most of the country's recent college grads... Amassing loads of college debt, without much visibility to paying it off with a job that allows them to pay it off in a reasonable time. I suppose this is a bit different since the job is virtually guaranteed. I would assume most would be taking on loans to enter this pilot training program...

I would also assume there's a number of folks in this community that gained their hours/experience without amassing a bunch of loans as well (maybe I'm wrong?)


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Non-story imo. The pilot still pays for everything and will likely not get any better pay. Hell the quotes I have seen indicate that it will cost almost exactly the same as if they were to go through similar programs already offered. The only difference is it has "Jet Blue" on it, they are likely making a small profit off of the student and you get a promised spot as long as you pass everything (which you would anyway).

Meh
 
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