Jesse's new laptop

All I have to say is....Here is a picture of the guy that started this thread: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17468

HOLDING HIS IPOD


jason_ipod2.jpg
 
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Welcome to the dark side Jesse. The force is strong with this one.
 
If you want a system that will never crash, but won't run squat, get a Mac.
If you want a system that will crash, but runs anything you could ever want, get a PC.
If you want a system that will usually not crash, runs most anything you'd want, and isn't trendy or fanboyish - use Linux.

Sorry to see that Jesse has determined that being a fanboy is more important than actually running software.
;)
 
SkyHog said:
If you want a system that will never crash, but won't run squat, get a Mac.
If you want a system that will crash, but runs anything you could ever want, get a PC.
If you want a system that will usually not crash, runs most anything you'd want, and isn't trendy or fanboyish - use Linux.

Sorry to see that Jesse has determined that being a fanboy is more important than actually running software.
;)
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Once again you might to read something from this decade. Macs can run the Windows stuff and the Linux stuff - in fact they ship with a goodly amount of the GNU software, but keep trying.
 
Jesse, I just heard about this from Dave Winer on TWiT. It's seriously cool.

http://flickrfan.org/

It puts hi-res AP news photos up as your screen saver. With my Macbook and the widescreen second monitor I get a different picture on each screen. It makes for GREAT wall art.
 
mikea said:
Once again you might to read something from this decade. Macs can run the Windows stuff and the Linux stuff - in fact they ship with a goodly amount of the GNU software, but keep trying.
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Can't wait to try Flight Sim on Leopard.
Can't wait to try and of the Command & Conquer games on Leopard.
Ooh - what's gonna be exciting is to run AutoCAD on a Mac...

Or...or...anything that professionals/gamers/enthusiasts actually use. Sure, you could buy a Mac and emulate Windows....but doesn't that defeat the purpose? You lose performance, and you spend more. Yay.
 
SkyHog said:
Can't wait to try Flight Sim on Leopard.
Can't wait to try and of the Command & Conquer games on Leopard.
Ooh - what's gonna be exciting is to run AutoCAD on a Mac...

Or...or...anything that professionals/gamers/enthusiasts actually use. Sure, you could buy a Mac and emulate Windows....but doesn't that defeat the purpose? You lose performance, and you spend more. Yay.
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You don't have to emulate Windows. You can run Windows natively. There is no performance loss running Windows natively.

Honestly Nick. You need to look at what you do and decide what is the best solution. If you knew what my job consisted of and you knew at least a little bit about modern Macs you would realize that a Mac for me makes quite a bit of sense.

I have a hard time respecting those that work in technology but cannot open their eyes to the reality of that which they have no experience with. It is just sad to be so close minded. This attitude can destroy a project or a company.

It is just as bad to be a Mac fanboy as it is to be a Microsoft/Linux fanboy. I work with Linux, Mac OS, and multiple Microsoft products all day long.
 
jesse said:
You don't have to emulate Windows. You can run Windows natively. There is no performance loss running Windows natively.

Honestly Nick. You need to look at what you do and decide what is the best solution. If you knew what my job consisted of and you knew at least a little bit about modern Macs you would realize that a Mac for me makes quite a bit of sense.

I have a hard time respecting those that work in technology but cannot open their eyes to the reality of that which they have no experience with. It is just sad to be so close minded. This attitude can destroy a project or a company.

It is just as bad to be a Mac fanboy as it is to be a Microsoft/Linux fanboy. I work with Linux, Mac OS, and multiple Microsoft products all day long.
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Ouch....was just joking...but yeah, if you're gonna go there, I'm not closed minded, I deal with macs on a nearly daily basis.....I think my opinion is informed enough to say that Macs still suck, but hey, if you want to putz around with a system that is pretty and stable, have at it.

And there are no Microsoft fanboys, only those that realize that they want to play games, run software that they need without finding an alternate solution, and enjoy all aspects of their computers, but then ***** about how much their OS sucks. Yes, I think Windows is better than MacOS, but that doesn't mean its perfect. Ask a Mac Fanboy about MacOS, and see if they'll admit its not perfect. It doesn't happen.

And now, you're closed minded, because you've joined those ranks, refusing to admit that there are limitations to MacOS. I expect your next statement to be "Microsoft stole the idea of a mouse from Apple! They clearly invented it."
 
SkyHog said:
Ouch....was just joking...but yeah, if you're gonna go there, I'm not closed minded, I deal with macs on a nearly daily basis.....I think my opinion is informed enough to say that Macs still suck, but hey, if you want to putz around with a system that is pretty and stable, have at it.

And there are no Microsoft fanboys, only those that realize that they want to play games, run software that they need without finding an alternate solution, and enjoy all aspects of their computers, but then ***** about how much their OS sucks. Yes, I think Windows is better than MacOS, but that doesn't mean its perfect. Ask a Mac Fanboy about MacOS, and see if they'll admit its not perfect. It doesn't happen.

And now, you're closed minded, because you've joined those ranks, refusing to admit that there are limitations to MacOS. I expect your next statement to be "Microsoft stole the idea of a mouse from Apple! They clearly invented it."
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Nick....Nick......Nick.....Lets not pull words out of each others mouth. I said you need to look at your needs and choose the best solution. There are advantages and disadvantages to every platform and every piece of software. Macs aren't perfect. It is simply the best platform for *MY* needs. I don't play Command and Conquer at work.

It is kind of silly to say that I am a Mac fanboy that is close minded to every thing else. Right now I have multiple Linux sessions open. I have multiple remote desktop connections to Windows Server open and I have Windows XP running in a virtual machine.

Macs do crash--just like everything else. The big thing for me is the modern GUI that hasn't been froze for the last 10 years with no development--the unix core which allows me to script like I do in Linux. I started using a $1000 Macbook a couple of months ago. You have no idea how much my Lenovo T60 pi$$ed me off. It had a mind of its own and you would work on its terms--not your terms. Probably just a bad laptop or a bad set of drivers. But I don't have the time in my day to deal with a laptop that just doesn't work.

There are Microsoft fanboys out there. You'll never get them to look at the other alternatives because they just can't accept the fact that they might have to learn a little. Windows Server, IIS, SQL Server, ASP, etc. There isn't anything else worth a **** in their eyes.
 
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Nick. I have to tell you, I knew that he'd get a razzing when I started this thread. Mostly from you and Chip. The thing is that it does make sense for Jesse in his day to day work. Jesse's primary role for us is a Linux admin...and he kicks butt at his job. It is much easier for him to interact with things when the tools that he needs are a native part of his OS. Dig, SSH, bash....none of them are native on Windows. I was against it when he first brought it up. An IT guy on a mac? In the end, I couldn't come up with a real good reason why it didn't make sense. We had an extra macbook in our department, so he decided to try it out. Like he said, he's not playing flight sim or C&C at the office. There is only one thing that he does on a daily basis that a Windows machine does any better, and that's interact with MS Exchange. Honestly, I'm not sure how much longer that will be around.

Desktop Linux is ok, but not on a laptop...at least not for a laptop that absolutely, positively has to be running when the **** hits the fan. They just don't have all of the bugs worked out yet. Power management, easy wifi. Good (easy) VPN clients that interact with our commercial firewalls. When we have a server go down every minute that Jesse is putzing with his laptop trying to get something to work right is another minute that every phone line in our call center is lit up like a Christmas tree. The best tool for the job is what makes him feel the most productive...and works when he needs it to.

After seeing it. I'm a believer. Not a fanboy, mind you. But I can see how it makes sense for him.
 
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FlyNE said:
Nick. I have to tell you, I knew that he'd get a razzing when I started this thread. Mostly from you and Chip. The thing is that it does make sense for Jesse in his day to day work. Jesse's primary role for us is a Linux admin...and he kicks butt at his job. It is much easier for him to interact with things when the tools that he needs are a native part of his OS. Dig, SSH, bash....none of them are native on Windows. I was against it when he first brought it up. An IT guy on a mac? In the end, I couldn't come up with a real good reason why it didn't make sense. We had an extra macbook in our department, so he decided to try it out. Like he said, he's not playing flight sim or C&C at the office. There is only one thing that he does on a daily basis that a Windows machine does any better, and that's interact with MS Exchange. Honestly, I'm not sure how much longer that will be around.

Desktop Linux is ok, but not on a laptop...at least not for a laptop that absolutely, positively has to be running when the **** hits the fan. They just don't have all of the bugs worked out yet. Power management, easy wifi. Good (easy) VPN clients that interact with our commercial firewalls. When we have a server go down every minute that Jesse is putzing with his laptop trying to get something to work right is another minute that every phone line in our call center is lit up like a Christmas tree. The best tool for the job is what makes him feel the most productive...and works when he needs it to.

After seeing it. I'm a believer. Not a fanboy, mind you. But I can see how it makes sense for him.
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That is why I put a toe in and walked in further. I knew if I hated the Mac, I could always do Unix stuff or install Linux. I realized it's nice to have something that just works most of the time.

On my job, the Windows and Linux server SME just bought a Mac for home and he loves it. There are a lot of us corporate IT cubicle dwellers who bought Macs. We just have to act like we're still assimilated at work.
 
SkyHog said:
If you want a system that will usually not crash, runs most anything you'd want, and isn't trendy or fanboyish - use Linux.
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Linux, not trendy or fanboyish? You have got to be kidding. It's more trendy and fanboyish than anything else is now.

SkyHog said:
Can't wait to try Flight Sim on Leopard.
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Flight Sim sucks. X-Plane is available on Mac, Windoze, and Linux but it's developed on the Mac. See this: http://x-plane.com/weapon.html

Can't wait to try and of the Command & Conquer games on Leopard.
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Sorry, I don't have time to play games. The Mac is not a gaming platform (though there are plenty of games available for it, such as the Halo series, so it's not like it's completely devoid...) So, if you just want to play games, just get a Dell or something. Better yet, a Wii or an XBox.

Ooh - what's gonna be exciting is to run AutoCAD on a Mac...
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Have you ever used AutoCad??? C'mon, I can come up with all kinds of Mac-only software that I've never used. Not a good argument. The Mac does everything that 99% of the population needs to do.

Plus, there's some really great software that's Mac-only. Several examples at http://www.omnigroup.com/ for instance. Mac users tend to gravitate toward "mac-like" software as well, because we can't stand having to read manuals or call tech support or do anything that can be done by the computer. I guess you could say we're lazy. ;)

Sure, you could buy a Mac and emulate Windows....but doesn't that defeat the purpose? You lose performance, and you spend more. Yay.
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You don't emulate Windows on an Intel Mac - You just run Windows natively. Hardware-wise, a Mac and a Windows PC are very much alike once you take away the Mac's good-looking exterior. :yes: If you want the coolest-looking Windows box on the block, just buy a Mac and install Windows. No difference between that and just buying a dell, except for the extra couple hundred bucks you'd spend to buy a copy of Windows.

SkyHog said:
And there are no Microsoft fanboys
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Yeah there are. I've had people tell me that Microsoft invented QuickTime and many other Apple products. I dunno what else you can call them besides fanboys, except maybe "dumbass."

Ask a Mac Fanboy about MacOS, and see if they'll admit its not perfect. It doesn't happen.
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Uh, yes it does. I've never said it's perfect, and I've even complained once or twice on the board. See the Leopard release thread (and BTW, since the 10.5.2 update, it's been rock-solid stable - Not a single reboot since the update.)

"Microsoft stole the idea of a mouse from Apple! They clearly invented it."
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Bad example... Apple had 'em before Microsoft ya know. :yes:

gibbons said:
I only have two words... "frequent backups."
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And while that is sound advice on any computer, most computer users do not back up. Which manufacturer has made it so dirt simple that you'd have to try harder not to? Oh yeah, that'd be Apple with the "Time Machine" portion of Mac OS X 10.5. Single-click setup, no further user action required. First time you plug in a sufficiently large external drive (or connect to one over the network) after installing 10.5, it'll ask if you want to use that drive for Time Machine. You click "Yes" and you're done. It does a full backup, and then keeps hourly backups for the last 24 hours, daily backups for the last week, and weekly backups until the backup drive is full.

But most importantly for this thread... The darn thing meets Jesse's needs better than anything else. That's what's important. Playing the latest games doesn't matter - Getting the job done does. Is that so hard to understand? :dunno:
 
I have and use AutoCad. :D

My problem is not with Mac, but with Apple and Quicktime. What a cluster**** that is. Oh, you want to view one file type that only QT will play. Well the only way to do that now is if you let us infest your computer with iTunes! I don't want iTunes dammit, and I certaintly don't want sh*t-time to decide on its own that it is going to make itself the default player for every media file on my computer even when I tell it no! And get the hell out of my system tray!

For that reason alone I will never buy an Apple product. Downplay it all you want fanboys, but I haven't had that issue with Media Player, or the Zune software, or anything else not Apple.

PS - what are you guys doing that you always have these crashes and this massive data loss potential? I haven't had a crash or system lockup on any of the 5 PCs I regularly use, in , well, at least 6 months, and it may even be over a year. And the last time I had any data loss on a PC was in 1994.
 
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I was wondering too- Internet explorer is about the only thing that crashes regularly on my windoze machine (other than anything I write myself).
 
flyingcheesehead said:
You don't emulate Windows on an Intel Mac - You just run Windows natively. Hardware-wise, a Mac and a Windows PC are very much alike once you take away the Mac's good-looking exterior. :yes: If you want the coolest-looking Windows box on the block, just buy a Mac and install Windows. No difference between that and just buying a dell, except for the extra couple hundred bucks you'd spend to buy a copy of Windows.
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And the few hundred dollars you'd need to spend to replace all the neat tools that come standard on the Mac. If you're looking just at hardware costs (i.e. with the intention of wiping the hard drive), the Dells are less expensive, IMHO.
flyingcheesehead said:
Yeah there are. I've had people tell me that Microsoft invented QuickTime and many other Apple products. I dunno what else you can call them besides fanboys, except maybe "dumbass."
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Ummm Provable wrong?
flyingcheesehead said:
Bad example... Apple had [mice] before Microsoft ya know. :yes:
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You mean Apple appropriated them before Microsoft. Xerox PARC had them before both! :yes:
flyingcheesehead said:
But most importantly for this thread... The darn thing meets Jesse's needs better than anything else. That's what's important. Playing the latest games doesn't matter - Getting the job done does. Is that so hard to understand? :dunno:
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I agree, that's what's important!
 
EdFred said:
I have and use AutoCad. :D

My problem is not with Mac, but with Apple and Quicktime. What a cluster**** that is. Oh, you want to view one file type that only QT will play. Well the only way to do that now is if you let us infest your computer with iTunes! I don't want iTunes dammit, and I certaintly don't want sh*t-time to decide on its own that it is going to make itself the default player for every media file on my computer even when I tell it no! And get the hell out of my system tray!

For that reason alone I will never buy an Apple product. Downplay it all you want fanboys, but I haven't had that issue with Media Player, or the Zune software, or anything else not Apple.

...
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You don't have to install iTunes to use Quicktime. In fact you can remove iTunes. It's just a case of the company "suggesting" you install the product. If you went to the quicktime page first you would have had only Quicktime.

As for as Quicktime only playing Quicktime files. Is in any way different from Microsoft insisting you have to have Windows Media Player, with lock-in DRM, and go out of your way to NOT ave it claim all the files it can play so it can send the info on what you're playing to Microsoft?

IF you think the fact that a company has problems with software they supply to run on a competitors OS where the competitor keeps the OS APIs they themselves use in their products undocumented and secret ...you have been assimilated.
 
EdFred said:
I have and use AutoCad. :D
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Well, then, don't get a Mac, unless AutoCad is the only Windoze program you use, or you have a few programs you use infrequently.

My problem is not with Mac, but with Apple and Quicktime. What a cluster**** that is.
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On Windows, yes it is. iTunes leaves something to be desired on Windows too - They tried to make a Mac app run on Windows, and it sucks the same way the M$ apps for the Mac used to (and still do to a lesser extent).

Oh, you want to view one file type that only QT will play. Well the only way to do that now is if you let us infest your computer with iTunes!
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No... Go to www.apple.com/quicktime and get quicktime. Don't get iTunes.

For that reason alone I will never buy an Apple product. Downplay it all you want fanboys, but I haven't had that issue with Media Player, or the Zune software, or anything else not Apple.
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Well, at least Apple makes their stuff work (albeit marginally) on the other side. Microsoft can't seem to make the Zune work with the Mac.

And, BTW, back when M$ had Media Player on the Mac, it did the same damn thing, trying to make everything play through it. :vomit:
 
gprellwitz said:
And the few hundred dollars you'd need to spend to replace all the neat tools that come standard on the Mac. If you're looking just at hardware costs (i.e. with the intention of wiping the hard drive), the Dells are less expensive, IMHO.
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This has not been true in years. I keep hearing the "Macs are expensive" line (which WAS true, back in the 80's and early 90's!) so every time I buy a Mac I configure the equivalent machine at dell.com to see what it would cost to buy what I'm buying as a PC instead. The Mac has been cheaper every time. Generally less than $100 difference, but the Mac has still been cheaper every time. I've been doing this since I bought my "Pismo" PowerBook G3-FireWire in 2000 or 2001.

You mean Apple appropriated them before Microsoft. Xerox PARC had them before both!
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Yup... But Apple had it before M$, and Apple was the company that popularized it widely.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
This has not been true in years. I keep hearing the "Macs are expensive" line (which WAS true, back in the 80's and early 90's!) so every time I buy a Mac I configure the equivalent machine at dell.com to see what it would cost to buy what I'm buying as a PC instead. The Mac has been cheaper every time. Generally less than $100 difference, but the Mac has still been cheaper every time. I've been doing this since I bought my "Pismo" PowerBook G3-FireWire in 2000 or 2001.
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If you are including the features that you would not have added to the computer anyway, or the software that comes with the computer that will never be used, I could see them being close. But go out and buy a computer that a real person would use all the time and compare to a Mac, you'll find a huge price discrepency. And I'll do it, and post it here (we've done this before, I'm pretty sure I won last time).

Yup... But Apple had it before M$, and Apple was the company that popularized it widely.
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Ahh, there's that fanboy attitude we were missing. You know, IBMs came with the color CRT monitor first....how dare Apple adopt such technology into their own computers!

:rolleyes:
 
Who gives a ****? Choose the computer that does what you want most efficiently. Take that spare time and go fly airplanes. It's absolutely silly/stupid to think that one computer meets everyones needs.
 
Macbook Pro: 15 inch screen, 2.5GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 gig RAM, 250GB HD, GeForce 8600 (512)
$2499

Dell XPS M1530: 15.4 inch screen, 2.5GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 gig RAM, 250 GB HD, Geforce 8400 (128)
$1194

$1300 difference. Ouch.

Both have cameras built in, the dell having a 2.0MP camera, the macbook unknown, since its not a feature that's really published. The only difference between the two is that one runs Windows, and the other Runs Mac OSX, and the video card (which admittedly sucks, IMO).

Better yet, trying to buy the one from apple gives a "Hmm, the page you’re looking for can’t be found," while the Dell page works ;)
 
SkyHog said:
Ahh, there's that fanboy attitude we were missing. You know, IBMs came with the color CRT monitor first....how dare Apple adopt such technology into their own computers!
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I was responding to this:

SkyHog said:
And now, you're closed minded, because you've joined those ranks, refusing to admit that there are limitations to MacOS. I expect your next statement to be "Microsoft stole the idea of a mouse from Apple! They clearly invented it."
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And pointing out that neither did.
 
flyingcheesehead said:

Ahh, there's that fanboy attitude we were missing. You know, IBMs came with the color CRT monitor first....how dare Apple adopt such technology into their own computers!
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I was responding to this:

And now, you're closed minded, because you've joined those ranks, refusing to admit that there are limitations to MacOS. I expect your next statement to be "Microsoft stole the idea of a mouse from Apple! They clearly invented it."
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And pointing out that neither did.
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Actually, you were pointing out that Apple had theirs out first. I was pointing out that neither invented them!
 
SkyHog said:
Macbook Pro: 15 inch screen, 2.5GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 gig RAM, 250GB HD, GeForce 8600 (512)
$2499

Dell XPS M1530: 15.4 inch screen, 2.5GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 gig RAM, 250 GB HD, Geforce 8400 (128)
$1194
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Sigh. It's pretty pointless to play a price game. There is a lot more to this than a couple of specs. Initial purchase price is nothing. If the damn thing falls apart in a year and I fail to do my job at a critical time the damage done will by far exceed the cost of the laptop several times over again.

You also forgot a few important things. You need to tack on another $300 to get the same proccessor. Another $50 for the right screen. Another $20 for Bluetooth. Now you're up to $1754.

So now we're talking about a $226 price difference. What is the build quality of that Dell? Do they speak English? Can I run Mac OS X? Those are the questions that really matter. I can pretty much promise you I would destroy a cheap Dell over the course of a couple years.

If you compare a well built business laptop against a MacBook Pro price isn't even part of the equation anymore. It really comes down to build quality and how productive the user can be on the platform.

The Unix core of Mac OS X is well worth $200 to me. The amount of time I can save by far exceeds the cost of the laptop over the course of time.
 
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