I've got the flu

FastEddieB said:
*On a similar note, it’s been shown that children raised of farms around a lot of animals are statistically less likely to develop asthma than city dwellers. The proposed reason is much like what you proffered - that challenges to the immune system early on make it more able to deal with future assaults.
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Personally, I think kids who grow up on farms get lots of fresh air and exercise, which I think has more to do with avoiding asthma than microbes. That said, I'm no MD, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
 
Well, there's always this...

cowbell-fever.jpg
 
Seems like I hear of more people getting sick after being stuck with the needle, than those who don't get the shot. Either way, it's a crap shoot.
 
steingar said:
Personally, I think kids who grow up on farms get lots of fresh air and exercise, which I think has more to do with avoiding asthma than microbes. That said, I'm no MD, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
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You don't need a farm. I grew up in suburban NYC and we all played outside all the time. Parents (i.e., Moms [Dads were at work]) would kick us out of the house as long as it wasn't pouring outside. No one was fat, had "ADHD", or had fatal peanut allergies. Coincidence?
 
paflyer said:
You don't need a farm. I grew up in suburban NYC and we all played outside all the time. Parents (i.e., Moms [Dads were at work]) would kick us out of the house as long as it wasn't pouring outside. No one was fat, had "ADHD", or had fatal peanut allergies. Coincidence?
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Too small a sample size to make an accurate conclusion. But, I know that kids who spend more time outside have better vision. I bet they have fewer allergies and cardiopulmonary problems as well, but can't swear to it.
 
steingar said:
Too small a sample size to make an accurate conclusion. But, I know that kids who spend more time outside have better vision. I bet they have fewer allergies and cardiopulmonary problems as well, but can't swear to it.
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Idk...I was born and raised in Arizona and been an outside human being since I was young. Have both allergies (you should have seen my allergy test at the doctor - my back looked like it had tiger stripes) and asthma. Certainly was never an indoor kid who was sheltered.
 
paflyer said:
You don't need a farm. I grew up in suburban NYC and we all played outside all the time. Parents (i.e., Moms [Dads were at work]) would kick us out of the house as long as it wasn't pouring outside. No one was fat, had "ADHD", or had fatal peanut allergies. Coincidence?
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Same for me. I grew up in Texas in a rural suburban area. We spent all summer outside. We had to be home at 5:30 when pop got home from work and the family all sat down and ate supper together, then back out until dark. No video games, no computers, no cell phones.... We had horses which meant cleaning stalls, hauling hay and riding, riding and riding. We had access to hundreds of acres to ride horses on, and camping next to the Brazos River.

Then one summer we heard about a body next to the rail road tracks and set off to find it......
 
Zeldman said:
Same for me. I grew up in Texas in a rural suburban area. We spent all summer outside. We had to be home at 5:30 when pop got home from work and the family all sat down and ate supper together, then back out until dark. No video games, no computers, no cell phones.... We had horses which meant cleaning stalls, hauling hay and riding, riding and riding. We had access to hundreds of acres to ride horses on, and camping next to the Brazos River.

Then one summer we heard about a body next to the rail road tracks and set off to find it......
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Billy Z and pals, circa 1969
Stand-By-Me-1.jpeg
 
paflyer said:
You don't need a farm. I grew up in suburban NYC and we all played outside all the time. Parents (i.e., Moms [Dads were at work]) would kick us out of the house as long as it wasn't pouring outside. No one was fat, had "ADHD", or had fatal peanut allergies. Coincidence?
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EXACTLY! There absolutely were no peanut allergies in the 60's and likely the 70's, never heard of ADHD, etc, and I'll add that the word "retarded" was regularly used and the retarded kids were segregated into their own classes and not forced to screw up the classes for the rest of us.

I'm also in the camp of getting sick both the times I've gotten a flu shot; and hearing how everyone insists it's not the flu; so yes it's probably not the full-blown flu, but I can't bring myself to get a shot that actually takes me down for several days. This problem is real for me and others and I'm happy for those of you who can get the shot and just carry on.
 
For y'all's consideration (at least those who might believe in the Scientific Method):
Side effects associated with influenza vaccination in healthy working adults. A randomized, placebo-controlled trial.
Randomized controlled trial
Nichol KL, et al. Arch Intern Med. 1996.
Show full citation
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Concern about side effects is a barrier to influenza vaccination. This randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial assessed side effects following vaccination among healthy working adults.

METHODS: Healthy working adults were recruited during October and November 1994 and were randomized to receive influenza vaccine or placebo injections. Local and systemic symptoms during the week following the injection were evaluated through structured telephone interviews.

RESULTS: Of 849 subjects enrolled in the study, 425 received a placebo and 424 received influenza vaccine. Baseline characteristics were similar between the groups, and 99% of subjects completed interviews to assess side effects after the study injection. No differences were seen between the 2 groups for the systemic symptoms of fever, myalgias, fatigue, malaise, or headaches. Overall, 35.2% of placebo and 34.1% of vaccine recipients reported at least 1 of these systemic symptoms (P = .78, chi 2). Vaccine recipients reported a higher rate of arm soreness at the injection site than did placebo recipients (63.8% vs 24.1%, P < .001). Local reactions were mild in both groups and infrequently resulted in decreased use of the arm. After logistic regression, female sex (odds ratio [OR], 1.5;95% confidence interval [CI], 1.1-2.1), age younger than 40 years (OR, 1.6;95% CI, 1.2-2.2), and coincidental upper respiratory tract illness (OR, 4.6; 95% CI, 3.2-6.6) were independently associated with higher rates of systemic symptoms. In the multivariate model, vaccine again was not associated with systemic symptoms (OR, 0.9; 95% CI, 0.7-1.2).

CONCLUSIONS: Influenza vaccination of healthy working adults is not associated with higher rates of systemic symptoms when compared with placebo injection. These findings should be useful to physicians and other health care providers as they counsel patients to take advantage of an important opportunity for disease prevention and health protection.

PMID
8687262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<can't find the popcorn>
 
Conduct the study again with all the participants sitting in a doctor's office for 45 minutes with a bunch of sick people before receiving the shot!

;)
 
timwinters said:
Conduct the study again with all the participants sitting in a doctor's office for 45 minutes with a bunch of sick people before receiving the shot!

;)
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Good point - would agree that for hermits with no human contact, the influenza vaccine may not be indicated.
 
FastEddieB said:
I know.

But no doubt if the vaccine group had an even infinitesimal increase in symptoms over the placebo group, that would be trumpeted as some sort of proof of something.
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.....by (a disturbing number of) some here - not by anyone who understands and believes science over anecdote.
 
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WannFly said:
In last 9 yrs I got 2 flu shots and both times I got the flu rt after... so I stopped. No shots, no flu for me.

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wrbix said:
Ah jeez.....<slapping forehead and walking away shaking head>
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Most of the people that I know that say they got the flu, often more likely a bad cold, got a flu shot. No, I don't think the shot caused it, but it certainly didn't help stop it.

I've never had a flu shot nor ever had the flu. But then it's rare for me to even get the sniffles, much less a full cold. I've been at my current employer for over 12 years and I can't remember taking even one sick day.

I'll probably start getting the flu shot once I'm older and in more of the danger zone from it. Between the ineffectiveness of the vaccine, people working from home, especially when they don't feel good, and that I rarely get sick of any type I'm fine without it.



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It really does, of course, come down to an EDUCATED personal choice - with the caveat that in the event of a major high mortality/morbidity influenza pandemic (which could happen any year) the penetration of vaccination within the whole population will impact population mortality. You may not be at high risk of death, but the old fellow in front of you in the checkout line is.
It's not all about you or me. Influenza is a PUBLIC Health issue. Vaccination is too
 
wayne said:
Most of the people that I know that say they got the flu, often more likely a bad cold, got a flu shot. No, I don't think the shot caused it, but it certainly didn't help stop it.
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Statistically, vaccines certainly do "help stop it".

"How effective is the flu vaccine?
CDC conducts studies each year to determine how well the influenza (flu) vaccine protects against flu illness. While vaccine effectiveness can vary, recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine."

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

Consider this from Wikipedia:

"The 1918 flu pandemic (January 1918 – December 1920) was an unusually deadly influenza pandemic, the first of the two pandemics involving H1N1 influenza virus. It infected 500 million people around the world, including remote Pacific islands and the Arctic, and resulted in the deaths of 50 to 100 million (three to five percent of the world's population), making it one of the deadliest natural disasters in human history."

It could happen again. Granted modern medicine could now save many who died back then. But widespread immunization has the potential to save millions of lives.
 
FastEddieB said:
Statistically, vaccines certainly do "help stop it".

...

It could happen again. Granted modern medicine could now save many who died back then. But widespread immunization has the potential to save millions of lives.
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Only helps if the strain running through the populace was in the mix in the shot. Otherwise it does not help. If it's in the mix in the shot then it will help.



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.....granted, but the best predictors of strains are much better than nothing.
 
timwinters said:
Conduct the study again with all the participants sitting in a doctor's office for 45 minutes with a bunch of sick people before receiving the shot!

;)
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Nowadays it's really easy to get the flu (and many other shots) at a grocery store or drug store pharmacy.
 
Walmart is my go to for vaccines.

Handy, because we’re in there pretty regularly for other things.

At 68, I thought the 2-shot pneumonia vaccine was worthwhile as well, and got that.
 
Everskyward said:
Nowadays it's really easy to get the flu (and many other shots) at a grocery store or drug store pharmacy.
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Pretty scary when the assistant manager of produce at the local Piggly Wiggly offers any vaccinations.....:lol::lol::lol:

But yes, better than waiting in a room full of sick people....
 
Just an interesting comparison here:
- recently one of our Labs developed a persistent cough and we took him to the University of Florida School of Veterinary Medicine where we had previously established him with Primary Care. Because he had a cough and over concerns of contagion we had to enter through isolation room with DVM and student in full isolation garb and protocol.
Logistically impossible in human primary care settings of course but registers as a reminder of contagiousness of respiratory illness.

Bailey recovered without incident BTW - after passing the cough to his younger brother.
 
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