It's Official: Started PPL training today! Learning in our 182

[Sinistar]

Someday... you'll forget to close a flight plan, and the call from Leidos will come while you're in the airport restaurant having lunch with your pilot buddies...

(Whistles... nope. Never seen that happen... not to me... ever... the guy who used to get the phone calls to go looking for airplanes oj the ramp in the middle of the night...) LOL!

It happens.

The funniest story on that I ever heard was the notification coming in from AFRCC to the guy who said, "I know that aircraft is fine. I just landed it."

So a call at the restaurant while eating I did learn several lessons here, better to learn them as early as possible so I can get on to the next "lesson".

I love it: "I know that aircraft is fine. I just landed it."

Okay, there are probably more than one POA'er with a Leidos call story!!

 

[ktup-flyer]

Cool, yeah I'm guessing we're pretty close.

Its funny, I can "just do it" but in a way its hard to remember to write it down But here goes:

Coming in from outside the pattern I start to slow it down, mixture rich, prop is still out for cruise (lets say 17"MP)
Midfield on downwind I pull the carb heat, landing light on, flaps 10 (the carb heat is like a air brake BTW!)
Turning Base MP==>15", Flaps 20deg, Prop In Full (this is smooth!), descent rate of about 400ft/min, add elevator up trim
Turning Final RPM==> 1700 or 1800, Flaps 40deg, descent rate about 600ft/min, speed about 80mph, more elevator up trim
Just prior to crossing the numbers, pull off all power, quick dial in last elevator up trim,
Fly it down into ground effect, hold the nose level for a bit and then with all those flaps speed comes off fast so back on the yoke can come quickly. During early landing practice I thought I could do this one handed as I feared I needed my hand on the throttle...NOPE! I need two hands to finish the landing and can find the throttle quickly if needed.

My wife likes to land with 30degrees of flaps on final. I've seen her just set the rpm at 1700rpm on downwind, add 10 flaps on each turn and fly flawless, perfect 500ft/min descents from downwind right to landing. She probably has like 50,000 more lands than me though She also lands full stall with power going to idle at/over the numbers.

I find it hard to find the 30 degree flap location. Plus my CFI wants me to be really good at full stall landings with all 40deg, mainly to get that final kinetic energy down. And he continuously asks "If the engine goes out now will we make the runway". I can now say "yes", way more than "no"! But this means keeping more power on early and taking it away later/gradually and being a little higher vs just one setting. We have parallels that are rather close and on occasions landing side by side I have yet to see someone higher than me. The downside is that I do sometimes need higher descent rates on final so I am still finding the right balance. And short fields for me are just "weird". Feels very odd dragging it in at such a slow speed and the occasional stall horn chirping near the numbers. But wow, can the old Sklyane land and stop fast with those big 40deg flaps handing out there.

We've also done 20deg flap landings and also practiced with none (simulate failure or master is off and they have no power). Landing with some power can be really nice. My first exposure to a landing with power on was many, many lessons later practicing soft field...felt like I had forever...and we ended up using 1500rpm and 20deg of flaps. I think 1400rpm would also work nicely.

It sounds like you have found a nice power/flap setting to give you a nice gradual transition to landing. I bet soft field landings for you are a piece of cake!!

I don't really have set power settings after 15" abeam. Just kind of wing it based off of my speeds. I can set it down fairly gently with 20º, but need to work on landings with more flaps. Guess that's on the agenda for today. I'll try your settings and see how it works

 

[Sinistar]

Okay: IIRC, you are also flying a 182 right.

Going from 20 to 40 in one spell might seem kind of aggressive??? Maybe try coming in on final with 30deg flaps (if you can find them on that darn switch) and 1800rpm. I never look at MP once I am down under 15", just RPM. Then adjust as needed. I have a hunch the flare will be more aggressive and come on quicker so be ready for that I guess.

Maybe @denverpilot can advise here?? (He's got tons of 182 time).

 

[denverpilot]

Okay: IIRC, you are also flying a 182 right.

Going from 20 to 40 in one spell might seem kind of aggressive??? Maybe try coming in on final with 30deg flaps (if you can find them on that darn switch) and 1800rpm. I never look at MP once I am down under 15", just RPM. Then adjust as needed. I have a hunch the flare will be more aggressive and come on quicker so be ready for that I guess.

Maybe @denverpilot can advise here?? (He's got tons of 182 time).

I was just reading his post and was thinking "that's fine, it'll just take practice to get a feel for it". But since asked, check your POH for calibrated vs indicated airspeed and note that you can *probably* in most 182s be "over the fence, landing absolutely assured" at 55 knots or so instead of 65 indicated.

That said, if you've been practicing at 65, you find the sink rate and yoke pressure for up elevator (even with full up trim and definitely if you ascribe to the "I won't use full up trim in case of a full power go-around" crowd - I don't) will be much higher and uncomfortable for anyone with arm strength challenges.

Check POH first before getting that slow of course. And no banking that slow...

A true real "I need to stop quick" short field, I'll slow it right up to 55 in mine before the fence but I have a bigger safety margin with the STOL kit. Work your way down there in a 182 without it if the book numbers say it'll work in yours.

I didn't really practice that until I owned it and had time to mess around in the pattern. 65 with no power and flap 40, it's plenty of drag to make a decent (checkride passing) short or soft field and softs work a little better with that touch more airspeed so it's a better "generic" number to memorize.

After you get comfortable slower, you can plant it and stop it in about 1/3 of the distance it requires for a takeoff. The 182 wing is a big draggy lifty beast compared to a 172, especially if you're light. It'll slow right down to speeds that'll make your CFI nervous. Mine will make a CFI grab for the yoke if they're not briefed that it has the STOL kit on it. Haha.

 

[Sinistar]

I guess I haven't mentioned any airspeeds yet. But just to be cautious. I am in a C182P and all speeds are given in MPH. I think Nate also has a 182P and I see he is giving numbers in knots. So for @ktup-flyer, please read your POH carefully as I don't know which 182 you have and they seemed to go from knots in earlier models to mph and then back to knots again in later models (ours is a 1972 model).

When practicing turns and altitude changes at near-stall speeds my CFI has me target 55mph indicated airspeed. You can just feel the wing want to stall. If there is any headwind it seems like the traffic is passing us Can't imagine what that must be like in a light sport or really light fabric plane!

On final with 40deg flaps, I am usually coming in at 80mph give or take a bit. For short field he has me fly it closer to 70mph and just about then the stall horn starts chirping.

I usually have a all or almost all full elevator up trim when landing (full flaps, throttle to idle). Very early on in training we did lots of full power recoveries with full elevator up trim so I could get used the arm power needed to push it down and keep the nose level....it takes a lot but I am comfortable with it. I could see someone with less arm strength finding that amount of forward force on the yoke rather disturbing or at least quite surprising. However landing without the correct trim might really be a lot to muscle during the flare.

 

[denverpilot]

I guess I haven't mentioned any airspeeds yet. But just to be cautious. I am in a C182P and all speeds are given in MPH. I think Nate also has a 182P and I see he is giving numbers in knots. So for @ktup-flyer, please read your POH carefully as I don't know which 182 you have and they seemed to go from knots in earlier models to mph and then back to knots again in later models (ours is a 1972 model).

Our ASI is a dual-indicating ASI, and for a while I was flying multiple 182s, so I memorized things in Knots, and converted our STOL addendum into knots, and have never gone back to MPH. But it's a very good point for someone in case they don't realize the model line swaps the two along the historical way...

 

[ktup-flyer]

Mine is an R with both mph and kts on the ASI. Loves landing with 20°, but that chews up runway. I no flapped a 3000ft rwy and it was all I could do to get it stopped in time.

 

[Sinistar]

At the fly in on Sunday the runway was 2770x40. Landed normally (40deg flaps) and then had to do a high speed taxi to boot to get to the crossing grass strip. So guessing I landed in 1100ft, taxi another 700ft and off.

Yeah, no flaps and short field do not jive!

 

[brcase]

Mine is an R with both mph and kts on the ASI. Loves landing with 20°, but that chews up runway. I no flapped a 3000ft rwy and it was all I could do to get it stopped in time.

Then you are coming in with to much speed, or more likely to much power. I easily land 182's with 10 degrees of flaps in 1500-2000 feet. No or little braking required.
remember Flaps, Speed and power are all related to how you land, if you change one you probably need to change another.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[ktup-flyer]

Then you are coming in with to much speed, or more likely to much power. I easily land 182's with 10 degrees of flaps in 1500-2000 feet. No or little braking required.
remember Flaps, Speed and power are all related to how you land, if you change one you probably need to change another.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

I touched down a little late, so that didnt help. I was doing a simulated engine failure spiraling down over the airport and my CFI told me to sit it down at the last minute. I do need to work on my short field though.

 

[brcase]

Less flaps = less speed or less power
Less power = lass flaps or more speed
Less speed = less flaps or more power

I touched down a little late, so that didnt help. I was doing a simulated engine failure spiraling down over the airport and my CFI told me to sit it down at the last minute. I do need to work on my short field though.

So for a simulated emergency, it is always better to be long than short, but once you were positive you had the runway made you could have added more flap to get it to touch down soon and decelerate quicker after the touch down.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[ktup-flyer]

Less flaps = less speed or less power
Less power = lass flaps or more speed
Less speed = less flaps or more power


So for a simulated emergency, it is always better to be long than short, but once you were positive you had the runway made you could have added more flap to get it to touch down soon and decelerate quicker after the touch down.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Yep, but he told me to do a no flap landing. Worst case scenario thing, I guess. Any tips based off of this? 20º of flaps and I should've held the nose off longer.

 

[Sinistar]

I'm way too much of a newbie to judge you landing....however it sure looks smooth...like a soft field touchdown. And that engine sounds sweet and holy crap does that runway look like it goes on and on forever (maybe just a video thing)! I feel like my touchdown point is earlier and a more aggressive pitch angle near the stall to main gear touchdown. Once again, hard to tell from video though. I would think your passengers would like your landing more than mine Maybe I would have more runway left and be carrying less kinetic energy.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Actually there was a near full moon, the CFI was grumbling a bit as he wanted it dark. The night cross country is tonight so probably another night with some moonlight.

My night XC was a fresh layer of snow and full moon. It was great. I just did only my 2nd night flight ever last Friday (1st one post certificate) and it was with a friend who was a CFI. I was astounded at the difference.

We also did a grass landing at night with a low pass to check out the condition and scare off any deer. I was right seat and he asked if I wanted to try to take off. What a circus that was...I am not ambidextrous.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Saturday I went to the practice area with a note pad on which I had created a data form. I went up to 4500 AGL and slowed to different speeds (80, 70, 60, 50) with different flap settings (0 & 20) and logged the various MP and RPM to maintain altitude. But more importantly, I noted and logged the attitude/sight picture and sounds (rpm, wind noise), plus control feel. Then I did the same thing but decended at 500fpm for each "test".

I did this as a result of my experience recently with an ASI reading high due to a pitot-static leak. It was not my idea, but the idea of an experienced CFI. I now have a feel for the proper envelope in various pattern and landing configurations. (I wonder how many approach stalls have been caused by ASIs that read wonky...).

This is with a 260se (182, with Peterson canard elevator and IO-470):

I found consistently on Saturday that my plane likes to "howl and whine" like a haunted house or 20 year old dog at 60kts indicated (full fuel, pilot only). Wind noise is a sure tell-take of 60 kts. I may try sand bags and more/less fuel in the future just to see how it changes.

I tried this Saturday as well (recommended in one of the Peterson videos): enter the pattern, hit 70kts, go 20 flaps before abeam, 16" to maintain TPA. Then pull to 13" (1750 rpm, needle at 12 o'clock), full trim, 500fpm descent. Super stabilized approach, no restabilizing at each flap change and pattern turn. Just play with yoke and throttle to get whacha need.

I like to drop it in rather than drag it in, and I'm at 65-70 on short final, full trim, slight down pressure on yoke.

Short field is 55kt approach speed, slightly behind the power curve, but I won't do less than 60 (self imposed limitation) and as a result I float quite a bit.

Lastly, I experimented with the stall horn and stall to see what the indicated speeds were when the horn went off and when the stall occurred. Thought about marking those on my ASI...(though it will vary based on payload).

 

[ktup-flyer]

I'm way too much of a newbie to judge you landing....however it sure looks smooth...like a soft field touchdown. And that engine sounds sweet and holy crap does that runway look like it goes on and on forever (maybe just a video thing)! I feel like my touchdown point is earlier and a more aggressive pitch angle near the stall to main gear touchdown. Once again, hard to tell from video though. I would think your passengers would like your landing more than mine Maybe I would have more runway left and be carrying less kinetic energy.

7150x150ft. It seems like forever lol

 

[denverpilot]

Yep, but he told me to do a no flap landing. Worst case scenario thing, I guess. Any tips based off of this? 20º of flaps and I should've held the nose off longer.

If you were shooting for the 1000' marker, you nailed it. If you were shooting for the numbers or around there, the approach was a smidge fast. And a smidge low/flat. (I didn't see a PAPI or VASI but it felt low to me.)

Seems like a nice normal arrival to me. Not full stall or slow but many normal 182 landings look similar.

Why'd you let the centerline sneak out from under the airplane?

Won't take much to fix that if you were shooting for short. Just slow up a bit more. I've certainly done my share of floating past the 1000' marker thinking, "there it goes!" when I carried a little extra speed in the Skylane without full flaps.

Not knowing what you were shooting for, it's hard to say what might be "better" but certainly nothing dangerous there, and the airplane was re-usable afterward.

 

[ktup-flyer]

If you were shooting for the 1000' marker, you nailed it. If you were shooting for the numbers or around there, the approach was a smidge fast. And a smidge low/flat. (I didn't see a PAPI or VASI but it felt low to me.)

Seems like a nice normal arrival to me. Not full stall or slow but many normal 182 landings look similar.

Why'd you let the centerline sneak out from under the airplane?

Won't take much to fix that if you were shooting for short. Just slow up a bit more. I've certainly done my share of floating past the 1000' marker thinking, "there it goes!" when I carried a little extra speed in the Skylane without full flaps.

Not knowing what you were shooting for, it's hard to say what might be "better" but certainly nothing dangerous there, and the airplane was re-usable afterward.

Last dual lesson, my CFI challenged me touchdown inside the 1000ft box, so I made that a focus point. It’s easy to get lazy on the centerline at TUP because it’s so wide. I’ve still got to get used to having that power and being ready to correct for it when I push in the throttle. 18 has Papis, but they rarely use 18.

 

[denverpilot]

Last dual lesson, my CFI challenged me touchdown inside the 1000ft box, so I made that a focus point. It’s easy to get lazy on the centerline at TUP because it’s so wide. I’ve still got to get used to having that power and being ready to correct for it when I push in the throttle. 18 has Papis, but they rarely use 18.

Sounds like he's working you up to precision landings. Practice practice practice.

You can surprise him. Just cut his goal of 1000' in half and shoot for that and you'll hit his 1000' goal more than 80% of the time, I bet.

Aircraft control looked fine to me on that landing, get a bit more aggressive with the airspeed and the throttle and you'll have it nailed in no time.

Pull some power to slow that approach a bit sooner and then don't forget to put some of it back to hold the new lower speed, and you'll be less likely to float the flare (don't forget ground effect happens) and once you're in that "no float" speed range for the weight of the airplane today (remember it changes with weight and it's subtle -- just a few knots difference if you're flying with half tanks today vs full tanks yesterday) and you'll spot land that beast perfectly.

You're at the stage where it's less "mechanical" and more "feel the sink rate in your butt" now, I'd say, just looking at that one landing. You made it touch down nice and soft and got the mains first just barely, which indicates a tad too much speed at touchdown, but that's a perfect place to work it a little slower on the next one from. A little slower, more elevator up to arrest the sink rate, slightly steeper approach, and you'll have that wing running out of airspeed and the drag a little higher and it'll sit right down from under your butt in the flare and the mains will touch down right where you wanted them.

It's all very subtle (at least in calm non-gusty conditions) from where you are with that landing to planting it right where you wanted it, now. Not nearly the mechanical feel the landings used to feel like when you started.

That landing was good. Runway was assured, no power needed, waited just enough to touch the mains first. But just barely. You'll easily get that a little slower and it'll feel really good when you don't float and the mains solidly touch with the nose still in the air and the yoke still coming back.

Here's a mental game to play. If you touched down and yanked the yoke all the way back, would the aircraft take off again? If so, you could have been slower at touchdown. Obviously there's a point of absurdity with that game, and you don't need to be THAT slow for anything but a maximum effort short field landing, but it may help you mentally picture how much extra speed you're carrying.

You might ask your instructor to let you do a few full stops and actually try to get that yoke back to your chest on roll out. If you were fast, don't pull it back so fast as to lift off, but get a feel for how much airflow and how much elevator authority you still have after touchdown without needing to think about aircraft reconfiguration to take off in a T&G.

Full stops can be used for practicing slow landings better than T&G because like in other athletics, you can "follow through" properly. Elevator all the way back, ailerons all the way over into the crosswind.

And don't think for a minute that every landing I make (or anyone else) gets all this right! These discussions here are just about the "perfect" ones. We all strive for them and once in a while we get them. The practice is to get us well within the PTS/ACS standard, but sometimes we just barely squeak them out.

My last landing on my SE commercial ride with a shifting gusty corsswind was a power off 180 that staying at flap 20 and a tiny bit of help from a gust, got me right to my desired touchdown point. I was sweating it right up until the mains touched. Thought I was going to be literally only 15' short. I could feel it in my butt and I gave the tiniest of pulls knowing I couldn't really stretch it much but with a little momentum and luck... nailed it. Right on the paint. My initial point chosen was the far end of the 1000' marker but I said "1000' marker" and dead center in the paint of the marker worked for me!

You'll feel it when you're "in the zone" as they say. Moving controls a fraction of an inch and visualizing the change in glidepath and speed and drag... it's fun!

 

[brcase]

Yep, but he told me to do a no flap landing. Worst case scenario thing, I guess. Any tips based off of this? 20º of flaps and I should've held the nose off longer.

I didn't think I actually posted this...

Less flaps = less speed or less power
Less power = less flaps or more speed
Less speed = less flaps or more power

I wrote this and then realized it is a bit oversimplified, and has some exceptions. But it does help show the relationships between each variable.

As for your video, It looked pretty good from what I could see. A bit long but within the 1st 1000 feet which is fine for a normal landing. A little more nose up at touch down might have been nice, but hard to tell in the video.
I would recommend letting it roll a bit longer. At our 2500msl airport I recommend students have full power back in before the 3000ft remaining mark as a general rule. Most of the time this means they can let the plane roll and slow down a bit before adding power.

What I can't tell is how much power if any or what your approach speed was. The approach looked a bit flat to me (I like a bit steeper approaches), but that may be an illusion due to the camera.

As for no flap landings you can always use a Forward Slip to help get down sooner.

Brian

 

[Kritchlow]

All I can say is.... if I were this guy's instructor and he was getting Intruction by Internet forum, I'd be very, very PO'd.

Let the guy's instructor do his job. You know, the guy that actually sees him flying??

 

[Kritchlow]

Less flaps = less speed or less power
Less power = less flaps or more speed
Less speed = less flaps or more power

Not sure I understand exactly what you are saying here.

 

[sferguson524]

So a call at the restaurant while eating I did learn several lessons here, better to learn them as early as possible so I can get on to the next "lesson".

I love it: "I know that aircraft is fine. I just landed it."

Okay, there are probably more than one POA'er with a Leidos call story!!

Yeah, I've got one of those... First flight after I got my Private... Marine layer moved in and home base went to 700 and 3/4... Landed out and waited for someone to come get us. Sitting on the table outside the FBO and a sheriff's car pulls up and says I'm looking for the pilot of that airplane right there.. Said that was me... He said the FAA is looking for you.. Was quite embarrassed, called FSS and closed flight plan.. Didn't help that it was a week or 2 after they re-opened the airspace after 9/11.. all in all, a non event

 

[denverpilot]

All I can say is.... if I were this guy's instructor and he was getting Intruction by Internet forum, I'd be very, very PO'd.

Let the guy's instructor do his job. You know, the guy that actually sees him flying??

You'd get over it. Everything is videoed and on the Internet these days. The Internet doesn't care about the instructor's ego.

 

[Sinistar]

Update: Week 22 (~71hrs)
> Short Version: Pilot Deviation + Humility + Studying + Back Up There Again + Written This Week(Fingers Crossed)

> I've already covered the "Pilot Deviation" in another thread. Expecting a call this week. I'll keep everyone posted on what happens.
> Other than a stupid ending, that 1st solo flight had some nice soft field take offs, nice short field landing, power off stalls, etc
> Meeting with instructor regarding the "matter". He talked about the process, what he expects, things to do, etc.
> I went up again, he encouraged it! I was a bit nervous as there was also a busy event...using our hangar alley. A NOTAM change for the non-movement area had me really nervous. I actually called the tower by phone first to make sure it was okay to be flying during this. They were super helpful and it worked out great. Had a decent cross wind so just practiced that...on my favorite parallel Doing better but it was just a weird day with everything going on.
> Finished with King Schools, all topics, all questions. Got a 87% on the first test so now studying the areas I was weak on. I usually do good on flight planning but kept getting a number slightly off. I will admit it was kind of hard to estimate a bearing up on a LCD screen vs a chart though. I think my error was from that. Told my instructor I would take at least 2 tests and if all is well, he'll sign my written endorsement this week and hopefully the test will be later this week. He told me early on that he wanted the written to fairly closely coincide with the check ride so maybe this means I'm close.
> Probably no flying this week unless there is one really nice morning before work.
> Getting the plane's log books in order in case they might get reviewed. Not much needed here, our A&P is rock star thorough with no other work since the previous annual and no other calibrations, tests or AD's required yet.
> Still considering things I can try/alter regarding all mistakes. To Date: There has been the deviation and the VFR night flight plan electronic filing being too short. My biggest concern is still the Bravo.

...thanks for everyone's help and encouragement so far!!! I can't wait to be done and to be able to relax into it (a bit, but not too much) and just keep learning.

 

[Sinistar]

Just passed the knowledge test today

Scored a 88% (53/60). Kinda bummed as my practice tests were running at 93% or higher. During the review stage with the proctor I see that I got 4 wrong on wx alone...I'm sure the oral will focus on wx now. Three of the questions I missed, I initially had right and then changed them (2 were weather, one was on regulations)....that was stupid. But that just means I didn't really know the answer either!

I was so ready for flight planning and W&B balance questions. No flight plan questions at all. And the one W&B question was really just a MTOW question. I think I ended up getting about 2x as many weather questions as I was getting in the practice exams. There was also a question where they referred to the "FAA Approved Flight Manual" where on the practice exams it was the POH (or they always say Operating Handbook). So maybe something changed there?

Nice to have that one done.

ps. I didn't 'f' up the trick question with multiple runways where one was closed...whew

 

[1RTK1]

Don't feel bad, I kinda bone headed a wx question or two because I didn't know where the state was they were asking about...!@#$%^&*()

 

[WannFly]

Don't feel bad, I kinda bone headed a wx question or two because I didn't know where the state was they were asking about...!@#$%^&*()

Exactly in the same boat as you... how is the weather in kentucky... I don't know fist tell me where the he'll Kentucky is. Why do I have to memorize the damn map?? Grrr

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Sinistar]

Update: Week 23 (~74hrs)
> Short Version: Knowledge Exam (aka Written) Finished, Some Flying, Reviewing Plane Logs

> Mentioned earlier, took the knowledge test and passed. Scored a 88% (53/60). I thought I would score in the low 90's I was so ready for flight planning questions only to get none and more on wx and regulations where I had the most missed questions.
> Getting together with instructor tonight to review missed questions, weak areas to work on getting the written signed off by him.
> Did one flight with the instructor, last of the instrument flying...lots and lots of steep turns, slow flight altitude changes, etc.
> I think my toughest exercise is the power off stall. I do it to aggressively. Its as if I feel it I need to really stall it rather than more gradually doing it. I believe I am holding altitude nicely though thru pitch and power.
> Did some more solo cross wind landings, steep turns, VOR navigation, etc.
> Really wanting to have a checkride....not sure if ready but I feel I am ready.
> Spending lots of time going over all the plane log books. Will need them in order for the checkride. And will need them in order if/when I need to talk to the FDSO inspector.
> Got lucky, I had made printed forms for the oil changes but hadn't glued them into the log book. I had planned on signing them....BUT A STUDENT PILOT CAN NOT. Learned that while studying for the written. Fortunately my amazing wife helped and can sign and return it to service...which she did
> Also anticipating another "pause". Our annual is due in October so there is a possibility the annual will be before a checkride Not a bad thing, probably actually a good thing. But it does delay wrapping up this whole adventure. Oh well, we'll see!

 

[Brandon White]

Exactly in the same boat as you... how is the weather in kentucky... I don't know fist tell me where the he'll Kentucky is. Why do I have to memorize the damn map?? Grrr

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Im with both of you on that one! I live in Oregon, pretty far away from Kentucky. It made me feel like an idiot for not knowing all my states so i'm glad I wasn't the only one!

 

[ktup-flyer]

All I can say is.... if I were this guy's instructor and he was getting Intruction by Internet forum, I'd be very, very PO'd.

Let the guy's instructor do his job. You know, the guy that actually sees him flying??

Honestly, my CFI wouldn't care and he said my landings were much better when we went out for my first night lesson with him in the skylane. I'm probably at 50+ hours in the past few months in a 172/my 182/Aztec/others in day/night/ifr, mostly with a 12,000hr+ ATP (Not my CFI) in the right seat giving me advice. He makes me hand fly wherever we go and refuses to fly when I'm in the plane unless absolutely necessary....TUP-OSH and back twice during Airventure, coast twice, east coast twice. I've been flying with my current CFI for 6yrs now on and off, so he knows me, and knows I'm not going to do anything stupid. I can fly the plane, and he and everyone else I've flown with will tell you the same, but IMO it never hurts to get input from different people and try different techniques to improve and fine tune.

 

[Sinistar]

Update: Week 24 (~76hrs)
> Short Version: Some Drama...Changing Instructor , Moving Plane, More Solo Work, Oh My

> So for about the past 6-7 weeks my gut has really been nagging me, something isn't right. Why are we slowing down? Where do I stand? When I asked a week ago, no answer. I've learned in the past that when I don't listen to my gut when it comes to people I'm always the one getting screwed. So I met with him tonight to let him know I am moving on. He said he's never had anyone stop so close to being done - huh - say what? So I asked "Then where do I stand?". No answer given. Rather, he indicated that he prefers to fly until the student is doing all maneuvers without him saying anything. I get that...but I need feedback. My bank account needs feedback.
> Last week I reviewed the checkride standards. I counted 6 things we had never done yet. He indicated we had done one. At 50hrs dual I would think we would have covered them all at least once. The big ones: slips to land, engine fire simulation, emergency descent, short field landing over 50ft obstacle.
> And we need to move our plane - no more temporary hangar which puts the plane 30 miles out. The instructor wanted me to fly in each time to pick him up. But that is another 20 minutes each way to fly in, taxi, full stop etc. Had I felt I was 1 or 2 flights from being done...sure! With no feedback, the gut is screaming no!
> I did thank him for all of help, being patient and of course helping me to solo. Never gonna forget that.
> He did advise me to expect a difference in instruction styles...I am open to that at this point.
> I did look him in the eye and say "I'm the last person you'll ever see quit, I just need to finish with someone else".
> The plane will go in for the annual next week. I was hoping I would be done before the annual (praying now to the A&P Lords of Cobol there's nothing really time consuming).
> On the good side, met with a newer CFI on Sunday. His first words were: "My goal is to keep flying fun"....A-MEN to that! He's got some 185 time so that's re-assuring when it comes to the HP stuff. He lives close to our permanent field and we have a nice, quiet small airport building for any ground work without all the huge FBO overhead.
> And I did two more solo flights this week. One was about 2hrs before the fatal experimental crash on Thursday. And the second was moving the plane (I have a extra endorsement for this). Mainly practicing specialty takeoffs and landings. I will start practicing stalls and slow flight next.
> I might start practicing hood time on my own.....that was joke
> Still no word from the FSDO regarding the "deviation". So I'm continuing to be vigilant, double check my landing clearances and saying "RIGHT" and "LEFT" with a lot more emphasis.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

A different instructor can be good for you. You'll learn a different angle, different emphasis.

Slips, emergency descent, and engine fire can all be taught in one lesson (mine was, I remember slips and emergency descents well, cuz it was cool how you could dump the VSI and the ASI remain at 80-90kts).

 

[Sinistar]

Update: Week 25 (~78hrs)
> Short Version: Met new CFI, solo practice, GOJO belly rub, annual starts

> Had a great 1st ground session with new CFI...love his energy level. We're both anxious to fly!
> A few more short solo pattern flights with one purposely right up to sunset.
> A big tub of GOJO meets belly of airplane...messy, nasty and clean! Probaby hadn't been done in years.
> Plane goes in for annual tomorrow

 

[Sinistar]

Update: Week 26 (~79hrs)
> Short Version: Annual finished, 1 solo flight

> So it's been half a year now, officially transitioned into "this sucks" territory. Actually it's not terrible, just longer than expected and I feel ready.
> Good news, the annual went as good as it could for 97.5hrs flown between my wife and myself.
> The windshield was rattling and he sealed it up nice and quiet again.
> New tires The old ones were definitely casualties of the training.
> They buffed out some age old scuffs here and there , wow looks all shiny again.
> New seals in the strut, now the nose sits up high and proud again.
> Did a solo flight today, just practicing landings since we had a nice 8kt crosswind at 80 degrees.
> The rudder trim is never where we leave it after the annual so finding the right spot again for take off and landing.
> Second ground session and now the knowledge exam deficiencies are signed off.

 

[denverpilot]

> So it's been half a year now, officially transitioned into "this sucks" territory. Actually it's not terrible, just longer than expected and I feel ready.

> New tires The old ones were definitely casualties of the training.

Hahaha that “this sucks” feeling means you’re getting enough situational awareness back that you notice the time now and aren’t fully overloaded from two seconds after “clear prop!” to engine shutdown. That’s a good sign things are closer than they were.

And I know the pain of tires. I slid the right one doing the Commercial stuff earlier this year and told the co-owner I owed us both a tire at annual. Didn’t get to the belts but it’s wobbly now. So yeah, we’re putting new running shoes on the 182 at the end of this month. And I have to not do that crap anymore. LOL!

 

[Sinistar]

My mistake with the tires was not rotating them once maybe right after I soloed. My first CFI has been with a FBO for years so its probably just taken care of and probably wasn't thinking about it. The inside treads were still really good but the outside ones were gone and bald. What was interesting was the tubes. The tubes had terrible creases in them. The A&P said he was surprised they hadn't leaked or simply blown. Who woulda thought! They are now on his wall of shame I think!

The other thing he took care of was the starter was getting slow/pausing. I was worried all those 100's of starts trashed it. Nope, he said the dissimilar metals of the battery and the tender (at the posts) were accelerating the corrosion. He cleaned it up and its like a new battery and starter!

Throw in my "hunch" about needing to bring in my aircraft, engine and propeller logs sometime between Tuesday...Friday, I'm feeling really good about our A&P and how thorough he is. Yes, they could have missed something but he seems to really dig and document (the later seeming the most important these days).

 

[Sinistar]

Update: Week 27 (~81hrs)
> Short Version: Pilot Deviation Resolved, Knowledge Exam Missed Items Signed Off, Some Solo Work

> Well, the "Pilot Deviation" has been resolved and closed (as far as I can tell). It required two trips. The first trip was to discuss the landing on the wrong runway. Since they had also requested plane logs and our plane was in annual it took a second trip for that review. I will say that all through the ordeal I was surprised at how often the 2015 change to be Compliance centric was stressed.
> Regarding landing on the wrong runway, there was counseling. It is on record for 2yrs (that's probably a Federal Government "Two Years" = infinity). I do not need to check any boxes on my next medical form and I asked specifically during the interview to be sure. We talked about what I have been doing to prevent the problem in the future. It does sound like this is happening a lot at this airport. He had listened to the tapes and caught one thing the controller said that I did not recollect regarding a "base" but the later change to a angled straight in being okay kind of negated that I guess.
> Regarding the log books...yes, they do ask. They want to know that the aircraft was in compliance at the time of the event. A first quick look to ensure Annual, Pitot Static, etc. Then dug a big deeper and found a couple of interesting issues. When we installed the Whelen landing light I had mistakenly listed the STC I found on their site. That would required a 337 from the A&P. But the light has a PMA number allowing us to enter and return to service without A&P. Since we had stapled those entries in, the ASI just said to fix and replace. I was then asked if I knew the age of the propeller per 14 CFR 61.xxx (114?). The pilot is supposed to know the hours on the airframe, engine, all propellers and/or rotors. The log only showed the time since the governor overhaul for the prop. So the propeller hours is my requirement, not the IA's Learned something there! I have since figured out the exact prop age (all S/N's were correct) and stapled it into the propeller log book. The next issue was a AD regarding inspection. He said many A&P's miss this...they list the AD but not the revision or the part/section being done (eg. Revision 4, Section or Part 'G"). He knew it was okay, said it was kinda typical. There was one other item regarding older AD's he had not done - being in a list he generated. He said ideally that list would contain the exact date/location of where each one was documented in the log books. And if he actually does them, the form he used indicates "signature" but the A&P didn't sign them. I'm not going to rock that boat with the A&P but will mention it next annual. The FSDO inspector knows of the FBO we use and said they run a really good shop there!
> Moral of the story...land on the right (and I meant RIGHT) runway. Hopefully your annual and other AD's are in compliance. I'm guessing they could ground the plane otherwise (speculation there).
> Worked with new CFI to resolve and sign off knowledge test deficiencies.
> Won't be able to fly with new CFI for another 2 weeks (bummer) so just doing 1 or 2 solo flights each week to keep active. I usually practice several parts of the ACS checkride...things I can do in the pattern, practice area or there and back. I'm not doing any low altitude or emergency stuff though.
> The really downer now is weather. November can be a sucky flying month. And then it gets cold.

 

[Skyrys62]

The really downer now is weather. November can be a sucky flying month. And then it gets cold.

Amen!

 

[Sinistar]

Update: Week 28 (~81hrs)
> Short Version: No flying or lessons

> No lessons with new instructor this week to do schedule conflicts
> No solo work - way low ceilings and/or winds on my free times.
> First week I haven't flown since I started training other than work travel.
> 2 Flight lessons scheduled with new CFI this week + short stretch of clear skies - let's go