It's Official: Started PPL training today! Learning in our 182

Good write up!

Sinistar said:
Update: Week 11 (~30hrs)
> Short Version: Mixing it up

> The second lesson was much busier. I didn't realize a requirement for the PPL is to at least request a clearance into the Bravo. My CFI does this in his sleep. So I listened carefully and did all the normal taxi, takeoff talking and he handled MPLS Approach. Unfortunately we were denied (I was bummed I though it would be awesome). So instead he just continuously gave me new vectors around the south side staying under the bravo until we were handed back off to STP. I think MPLS approach missed one thing, they didn't have us squawk 1200 again and the STP controller remedied that. Before I am done want to pass thru the bravo at least once.
!
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Is it really a requirement?! We have no Bravo anywhere near me, so not sure how that will work. Nearest would be about 300nm direct one way.
 
I will check with him the next time we talk to clarify.

I know he also instructs for their 141 school so perhaps its because of that if they have an additional requirement?

Or maybe if you're home airport is near a Bravo then perhaps you have to try at least once (my home base right now is under the Bravo).

I hope others will chime in. I noticed my instructor even wrote it into my log book (still doesn't prove that it is required though).

I guess for me I was more bummed that it didn't work out. Hopefully for your case (being so far away) it is not relevant.
 
Although this doesn't quite make sense to me, perhaps it is due to 14 CRF 61.95?

I train out of Delta that sits under a Bravo so technically it doesn't seem that this section applies. Except the wording "Airports located within Class B airspace" - does the word "within" include the Delta as it sits under the Bravo?

Either way I know he'll explain it to me but I probably won't be in touch with him for a few days.
 
If you're that close to a Bravo, it may just be due to the proximity and to ensure if something happens you know how to request clearance in to it.

I'm at a Charlie, so I'm used to ATC communications, but a Bravo request would be foreign to me at this stage of my training.
 
Sinistar said:
Although this doesn't quite make sense to me, perhaps it is due to 14 CRF 61.95?

I train out of Delta that sits under a Bravo so technically it doesn't seem that this section applies. Except the wording "Airports located within Class B airspace" - does the word "within" include the Delta as it sits under the Bravo?

Either way I know he'll explain it to me but I probably won't be in touch with him for a few days.
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abqtj said:
If you're that close to a Bravo, it may just be due to the proximity and to ensure if something happens you know how to request clearance in to it.

I'm at a Charlie, so I'm used to ATC communications, but a Bravo request would be foreign to me at this stage of my training.
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The CFI must give a written endorsement for a student pilot to operate inside Bravo airspace, and also a separate endorsement to operate at the airport inside the Bravo. Two separate endorsements.

Flying underneath the Bravo shelf, no endorsement required but like @abqtj said, perhaps the instructor expects they'll be doing the airspace endorsement later on for you because it'll make getting around easier.

Plus if you live in the shadow of a Bravo, you might as well get used to talking to them if and when needed. It'll always be there and for the most part, the controllers are great in the vast majority of them. It's also good practice for listening and communicating effectively while dividing attention appropriately to fly the aircraft, for "someday" when you do the instrument rating and are flying "in the system".
 
Finally had a chance to ask my CFI regarding the Bravo entry requirement. I told him I scoured 14 CFR 61, especially 61.95 and I didn't find anything. He smiled and said that is it not a requirement. He said he is always receiving emails from the FAA regarding suggestions for training or something like that. One item he said that comes up is Bravo airspace entry confusion, rules, etc. So he (and it could be the flight school) require at least one attempt to enter the Bravo. They want the student to hear how it is done, change of XPDR code, handoff's, frequencies, flying vectors from a controller, etc. I told him I want to try again and next time I want to do the talking.

To me the only part I was apprehensive about was that he warned me the ground controller will most likely call back with the clearance during the taxi or run-up. Yep, sure enough they called back right during the mag check. He said in that case, hold on the run-up to get the clearance the first time if possible. He likes overloading me a lot to see how I react :) I was thinking it would be better to obtain the clearance from ground before the request to taxi so that the run-up could be done after all the other info was received.

Sorry about any confusion. Definitely not a requirement. He just believes in it enough to spend some of the PPL time on this topic.
 
Update: Week 12 (~32hrs)
> Short Version: Hot!!! + First Full Hour Solo :)

> My instructor's requirement (as of now) to do solo work is to have verbal permission the day of the flight. We had one perfect night and I couldn't reach him, the preflight was done (even did it again while waiting). No word, buttoned everything up and went home dejected. He called and apologized in the morning. He had a cross country in the evening and his phone died. In a way it was a good lesson. I didn't sidestep his requirement. I was just so ready and mentally psyched to go and then nada.
> Two days later, light winds in the morning and he called me right away. FRIGGIN AWESOME!!!!!! The day I soloed was awesome. But there was something about this flight all to myself. I checked wx, pre-flighted, started up, taxied, did the run up and took off all by myself. I did two full stops, 8 touch-n-go's and then a final full stop. Tallied up to exactly 1hr. WOW!!!
> I had my first "Unable..." during that flight. On what would have been the 3rd landing I turned final as the tower cleared someone to go. I think they gave them a "No Delay". But the pilot instead did a right then left (to get every inch of the runway). Then just sat there. As I watched I had already decided in my gut this would not be a landing. In doing so I wasn't bring my altitude down (my bad). Then I was cleared to land and was thinking "Yeah right, even if the other guys rolls I'll never get this down in time." So instead of ack'ing the cleared to land I just said "Unable, what would you like me to do?". Since the big parallel was empty and no landing/departing traffic they just moved over to the other runway and make right traffic for that. I did and got the big runway for the rest of the day so it worked out great. In hindsight this one made me think. I probably should have continued a normal final and not start second guessing things as the tower is there to help. Yet, from my perspective this guy isn't moving and I'm closing fast and I am a newbie who can't slip it yet to kill off that excessive altitude. On the flip side, if it feels wrong "right now" why continue going any lower and slower when a go around from 400AGL is probably much better than one from 50AGL while closing on a plane will probably just start rolling. I know I did the right thing. Then again a go around with parallels on a busy day might have been more hectic.
> The flight today was hot!! You know that day we practiced a window open on takeoff...well we did half the lesson with it open....glad we practiced it earlier.
> CFI asked if we had done a soft field takeoff..I'm like yeah (listening for what I want to hear, no we had not) Asks if I want to do it...pauses like 3 seconds realizing I'm full of it and confused. He says let me show this FIRST TIME :) On cleared to takeoff he says "my plane..watch!", gives it some nice even throttle, throws in some flaps, dials in a bunch of trim, points us down the runway, full power and holy **** the nose just cranks WAY up in the air! I can't see the runway over the nose. He says "we're already in the air" wow :) He asks, did we even hit 40mph...I didn't see. I swear we were off the ground in like 300ft (actually I really don't know). Wow, and it was hot and humid. That was awesome.
> Did another engine out drill just as we were coming out of slow flight. Speed was still below best glide and flaps still out. I pitched right away for 80 and knew to get those flaps out like now. I instantly tried carb heat, mixture, throttle, fuel selector then looked for a landing spot. I saw a few and told myself "look 3 more seconds"...big smile, saw the grass strip he had in mind! Then i checkef mags and primer. I flew down kinda close to the tree line before the field then got throttle back. He then he said you made it and cold easily go last 40deg flaps now. I like that drill! Still getting a feeling for when to add those flaps.
> Ended with some touch and go's to finish the day. The air expo was running on the other side of the field. The avenger and sky raider landed before we departed and the Mustang and corsair went up as we landed so just missed some cool aerial views...next time.
> Did another quick session of VOR work to get ready.
> We have a 370nm dual XC planned for Tuesday wx permitting. If all goes well, my folks will meet us and we'll get a home cooked lunch on one of the stops :)
 
Update: Week 13 (~35hrs)
> Short Version: First Dual XC and another awesome solo flight

> This past week was to be our first dual XC of about 350nm. Of course mother nature intervened so we spent an hour going over the flight planning, calling in for a full wx brief, reviewing my chart plan, checkpoints, etc.
> Then he said, we can't go all the way but we can fly part of the way. So, my first day of flying with storms somewhat nearby. Flew in some light rain and went above the low scattered layer. Wow, in between the layers was so smooth. I can see why people want to get above the lower clouds!!!
> On the way back we had some fun. First he showed me a rather high wing/bank angle :) Then he said your plane, get us back altitude, heading via VOR radial. Not too bad.
> After that maneuver I said I had never pulled quite that 'g' level. He asked if I had ever done the 0g thing...nope. Next thing he said "my plane", pulled it really hard and then zero G. Wow, I think my mind was still on the positive G we pulled and how far my gut sank before he pushed the stick ahead!! Back to "Your plane".
> While flying it seemed like the broken layer was starting to close up a bit and I asked how will we get thru there. Once again: "My plane". Although flying from the right, he spiraled us down to the left. I felt the opening he picked was rather small...he just chuckled. He slowed us down, pulled out all the flaps and did a pretty tight kind steep spiral down. Right as we cleared the bottom he said "Your plane, clean it up, get us back on course, VOR and really watch your altitude ". That was some interesting flying there.
> The only other flight this week was a awesome solo flight which I posted about earlier. That was a great flight and several people here schooled me on how to be careful about helicopter turbulence and to not always trust the tower is looking out for this stuff.
> No other solo work this week due to winds beyond my endorsement. And no other training this week as the instructor took 5 days of vacation.
> This week we have our original dual XC planned again which might finish my dual XC requirement if he thinks I know it well enough.
 
Sounds like you're getting comfortable flying @Sinistar ... next spiral down, you get to do it. :) Okay, I'm kidding but notice how well that works, and it keeps the airspeed under control better than a steep dive...
You're hitting that stage where the flying is fairly two-dimensional except for takeoff and landing, but you can handle it, and he surprised you a little showing you you're still operating in three dimensions. Cool, huh?
 
Yes getting more comfortable, but probably better to say more aware!

Yeah, that spiral made a ton of sense. When that hole is kinda small, I could easily see the speed coming up on Vne quickly in that steep dive or with full flaps extended - starting to exceed the 40 & 20deg max flaps speed.

One thing about the spiral that kinda got to me well after the flight was done - what if a person screws it up. In other words you get off and enter the cloud at that steep angle + bank. I could see a person getting really disoriented really fast with only instruments to go by. I'm guessing that is getting well into IFR training. My gut says to immediately get rid of all the bank angle/turn and then bring back the descent angle to something much shallower and get out of the cloud without overspeeding anything or getting inverted, etc? I haven't had a chance to ask my CFI about this yet but we'll be in the plane for 3hrs together tomorrow so plenty of time for questions!
 
1RTK1 said:
It will be interesting to hear what you instructor says about that.
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I bet most will say, "Try not to spiral in a sucker hole too small to recover in."

The idea is that a spiral is a good maneuver but "always leave yourself an out"...

If the hole isn't big enough to lower the bank angle and get yourself oriented and what not... it was too small to push your luck in. Plus, VFR cloud clearance requirements...

Simply put, "don't push it that close if you aren't confident of the outcome of the maneuver".

Steep spirals are in the Commercial Standards ostensibly for the reason this one was used... in an emergency or urgent situation, where the pilot needs to descend over a particular spot (airport, whatever) they need practice in not getting disoriented in the continuous turn while referencing the ground spot they want to circle.

But no harm seeing it and doing it at the Private level... just because it isn't on the checkride, doesn't mean you can't practice and do it, and maybe you'll need it someday... :)
 
Update: Week 14 (~44hrs)
> Short Version: Long Dual XC and LOTS of solo work.

> Excellent newbie flying wx this week :)
> 340NM Dual XC this week, everything went well, found all checkpoints, calculated vs actual speeds and fuel burns all lined up. So planning, flying, dead reckoning and pilotage were great.
> The whole xc I felt like it was map, paperwork, plotter cluster. I thought I would be more organized but I felt like stuff was everwhere.
> We turned off the tablet so it was all VFR and no magenta lines :)
> Flew last leg of xc at 6500 agl, right above and between a scattered layer. CFI kept pointing out openings in clouds that I just didn't see. Also he would say "we'll go over that one". I felt we would have to climb and he said nope and sure enough we cleared the tops nicely. So, my feel for what is level at that altitude and clouds is way off! Kept feeling as if we were below them.
> 4 solo flights this week so getting in lots of landings and practice area work.
> Still loving it, wishing I was done :)
 
Sinistar said:
Update: Week 14 (~44hrs)
> Short Version: Long Dual XC and LOTS of solo work.

> Excellent newbie flying wx this week :)
> 340NM Dual XC this week, everything went well, found all checkpoints, calculated vs actual speeds and fuel burns all lined up. So planning, flying, dead reckoning and pilotage were great.
> The whole xc I felt like it was map, paperwork, plotter cluster. I thought I would be more organized but I felt like stuff was everwhere.
> We turned off the tablet so it was all VFR and no magenta lines :)
> Flew last leg of xc at 6500 agl, right above and between a scattered layer. CFI kept pointing out openings in clouds that I just didn't see. Also he would say "we'll go over that one". I felt we would have to climb and he said nope and sure enough we cleared the tops nicely. So, my feel for what is level at that altitude and clouds is way off! Kept feeling as if we were below them.
> 4 solo flights this week so getting in lots of landings and practice area work.
> Still loving it, wishing I was done :)
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seems like you are having LOADS of fun. I am right behind ya... on a diff note, have you cleared your written? I am dragging my feet with it and I have a feeling its going to come back and bite in my a-r-s-e. reading FAA pubs is boring at best
 
Nope, haven't done the written yet. Actually, I am fine waiting even a bit longer. I have been slowly going through the PHAK, highlighting all things that seem relevant. I have also went through the two relevant major parts of the FAR. I am still very weak on weather and need to really dig into the AIM now also. You know, if the written (for me) were to preceed the check ride day by just a week or two that would be fine by me.
 
denverpilot said:
I bet most will say, "Try not to spiral in a sucker hole too small to recover in."

The idea is that a spiral is a good maneuver but "always leave yourself an out"...

If the hole isn't big enough to lower the bank angle and get yourself oriented and what not... it was too small to push your luck in. Plus, VFR cloud clearance requirements...

Simply put, "don't push it that close if you aren't confident of the outcome of the maneuver".

Steep spirals are in the Commercial Standards ostensibly for the reason this one was used... in an emergency or urgent situation, where the pilot needs to descend over a particular spot (airport, whatever) they need practice in not getting disoriented in the continuous turn while referencing the ground spot they want to circle.

But no harm seeing it and doing it at the Private level... just because it isn't on the checkride, doesn't mean you can't practice and do it, and maybe you'll need it someday... :)
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He pretty much said dead on what you did! When I asked about what to do if the spiral went into the clouds he said to level the wings immediately and continue a nicely controlled descent until clear of the clouds. He also said the one he demonstrated was right at the VRF limits so I guess I have in my mind now what might be right on the verge of too small an opening.
 
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Sinistar said:
Nope, haven't done the written yet. Actually, I am fine waiting even a bit longer. I have been slowly going through the PHAK, highlighting all things that seem relevant. I have also went through the two relevant major parts of the FAR. I am still very weak on weather and need to really dig into the AIM now also. You know, if the written (for me) were to preceed the check ride day by just a week or two that would be fine by me.
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same boat. I fall asleep every time I open one of those :(.
 
Hello Hüseyin! I am still a newbie myself compared to all the others here so my advice may be limited.

First off, where are you located? Are you already a US citizen? Sorry to ask those first two items but where you live and citizenship status can be a factor.

If you are in the US and are a US Citizen I would first recommend listing here any medical conditions, medications, official diagnosis, etc. The single biggest hurdle (other than money) will be your 3rd class medical. DO NOT just go in for the medical, certain conditions, diagnosis, medications can immediately block you from flying and potentially cost your tens of thousands of dollars to work around. Also, if you have any drug or alcohol issues or past legal actions related to those, you will be fighting a long uphill battle.

If you are in the US but not a Citizen, there is now some type of vetting / background process. My instructor (CFI) told me of his student from Mexico who was ready to fly but took almost a month to clear him and his family before he would be allowed into the cockpit of a plane...even as a student with a instructor with him.

If you are still reading and all of the above is a non-issue, then go find a training facility near you (you will hear the term FBO). The FBO (Fixed Base Office) is just a business at an airport. Some just do mechanical / avionics work. Others may specialize in chartering or who knows what. But there is usually one or more on the field that do training, rent planes, etc. Go there and schedule a discovery ride. If you are serious, bring a new log book with and that first hour will count towards your training. Ideally you would meet and chat with a few instructors and even better yet meet with a few different training FBO's and get a good feeling for who would be a good fit for you. By doing this first trip to the airport and FBO you will find out how to get into the airport, what flying is really like, etc. You might go up once and find out it is not for you and save yourself lots of money. You can continue to train (even without your medical) but you will not be allowed to solo until you have your 3rd class medical.

In the US expect to pay somewhere between $7,000 to $12,000 to complete your training. Although the standards call out 40 total hours, expect to spend 55hrs or so to complete the training. For example, I now have around 38hrs and will still need at least 15 more by my estimate.

If you are in another country maybe others here can help?

Also, if you want a lot more advice I would recommend starting another new thread. Not as many people read my training thread so you probably won't get nearly as good of advice compared to a new "I'm new to flying...what do I do" kind of thread.
 
Update: Week 15 (~48hrs)
> Short Version: First Solo Cross Country!!!

> Flew 3 legs totaling 215nm, 2.3hrs
> One advantage to solo...lots of room on the co-pilot seat for all the stuff :)
> Did good on all the checkpoints and was always within 20seconds (yes, no real wind to deal with).
> Did really good on fuel estimation, was only off by 1.5gals.
> I tried to only use the tablet when looking up information however I did use it on the return leg to be absolutely sure I didn't bust into the Bravo.
> My first day above being above the clouds - by myself!!! A very light broken layer but it was right at my 5500msl flight plan so went up to 7500. So nice and calm up there. Near the end of the 3rd leg I could tell I would not clear the remaining tops and the ouside bravo ring was getting near so I had to work my way down and ended up under them at 3500...wow, bumpiest ride I have ever had in a small plane (so far). I even re-tightened my seat belt just in case.
> The bumps continued down to the pattern level so I was a bit worried on the landing but the last 200' or so it was almost calm again.
> I didn't overshoot the 1st airport but I was close on descending down on time.
> So cool to land an airport that I have never even seen before!!!!
> Did another 1.5 of solo pattern / practice area work the day before the X/C
> Did one lesson with the instructor on emergency procedures and stalls before the X/C
> So, more solo cross country work ahead. Feels like the end is in sight :)
 
Sinistar said:
> My first day above being above the clouds - by myself!!! A very light broken layer but it was right at my 5500msl flight plan so went up to 7500. So nice and calm up there. Near the end of the 3rd leg I could tell I would not clear the remaining tops and the ouside bravo ring was getting near so I had to work my way down and ended up under them at 3500...wow, bumpiest ride I have ever had in a small plane (so far). I even re-tightened my seat belt just in case.
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Nice progress.

Be careful about that climbing on top of broken layers, thing. You can get trapped up there. Always have an "out" within your fuel reserves.
 
Thank you for being to the point regarding the clouds. The clouds were so scattered that I felt comfortable up there, however I can see now where that comfort could easily get me in trouble. I was always looking down to the sides to see if it seemed like the scattered clouds were closing in...thankfully it was never anything like the day the CFI demonstrated that spiraling maneuver. When I debrief with the instructor I'll pass on any feedback he has. Every time we're around clouds I find myself wishing I knew like 9000% more than I do. So much to learn.
 
Sinistar said:
Thank you for being to the point regarding the clouds. The clouds were so scattered that I felt comfortable up there, however I can see now where that comfort could easily get me in trouble. I was always looking down to the sides to see if it seemed like the scattered clouds were closing in...thankfully it was never anything like the day the CFI demonstrated that spiraling maneuver. When I debrief with the instructor I'll pass on any feedback he has. Every time we're around clouds I find myself wishing I knew like 9000% more than I do. So much to learn.
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Okay. Make sure you know then meteorological definition of "scattered" and "overcast". You'll see both on METARs. ;)

(A little PoA homework for ya... Grin...)
 
On a earlier flight around clouds my CFI said to imagine squishing them all up next to each other, then estimate what percent of the sky it would cover. For yesterday's flight it was definitely less than 3/8 and I'm pretty sure it was even less than 2/8 with bottoms around 4500 and tops right around 7500. So, hopefully I have this right...scattered. Not quite enough to be broken but getting close. Definitely not overcast yet also not clear either.
 
Update: Week 16 (~53hrs)
> Short Version: Finished with solo daytime cross countries...taking advantage of the great wx!

> Have now flown over 1000nm between a short dual, long dual and 3 solo cross countries...wow!
> Did #2 solo cross country (220nm) on Friday, went great. Counted 4 air tractors out working on the longest leg.
> Did #3 solo cross country (240nm) on Saturday morning. Only glitch was that a VOR I was going to use for cross referencing was not functioning so my planning failed to find that. It was not on the route and I forgot to ask the briefer or look online.
> Getting better at pilotage but made one bad call on a "Silo". I figured it would be one of the monsterous ones out here....nope so I missed it. Almost if that area was so featureless they decided it was worth putting at least something there.
> I find I tend to fly to the right of the track as it makes overflying items much easier to see. This isn't a big deal at 2000agl, but at 6000agl I need to be even further right.
> The last leg of my last cross country was (purposely) thru our home hangar location. It was both nice and bit daunting to land there for the first time. Nice in that I finally felt like I flew it home (and not the wifey!). Daunting in that it is shorter, narrower, trees on one side, etc. I actually did a go around on the first landing as I got behind on the descent from 5500 down to 2000 so as I tried to cross midfield, do the downwind and base and final I was too fast and high all the way around. Next landing got me a nice comment from the local retired guy out watching. Of the 7 landings I did I never felt comfortable with a touch and go so did all taxi backs.
> Got to briefly follow-in the P-51 on the final leg back to where I am training. I was on a long final and he was on right base. I will miss this stuff when we go back to our home airport.
> Did 0.9 of just landings yesterday. It was right at the max for crosswinds for my solo endorsement so rather than fear it, it was time to get it on. All landings went well. Lots of akward/dorky learning how much aileron is really needed to move the plane. And since the winds were up there was one nice bonus...the over the ground speed was 5...10kts less than on all these calm days so more time and lower touchdown speeds. Felt like the old Skylane just touched and stopped...I liked that.
> This was the week of the most "normal" flight times. In otherwords lots of 10am...2pm flying. I am so used to early morning and late evening (calm) and now I was riding through a lot more of bumps. It got so bumpy on one flight I tightened up my seatbelt. This is a bit unnerving on the turn to final but at that last 50ft or so it seems to get more static again.
> Tried cleaning a patch of the belly of the plane with GOJO...its gonna work but be really, really messy! The previous owner had it on grass strip for like 15yrs and he probably didn't clean under the wings that often so the pilot's side needs that scrubbed as well (thinking hot water there). Otherwise the paint job has really held up well...for 45years! Also, they had used car gas for awhile and where it had leaked has these ugly brown blobs...but the GOJO ripped right through that as well.
> As always, can't wait to be done. More hood and other time coming up next, hopefully night training will be soon.
> My CFI is allowing me be up until no later than the start of civil twilight so I will try a session this week in the pattern and go 15 minutes after sunset to work up to it and see all the lights on at the airport for a change.
> Might get another endorsement to fly to our home airport...would be nice to stop renting a second hangar...but not worth it until night work is done.
 
I wiped the belly of my 182 for the first time ever. Tried WD40. Sprayed a small area and wiped. Took about 20 minutes. Area behind exhaust will take more work or GoJo...
 
Nice update. Sounds fun. Gojo, not fun. Huge mess but it works. Last time I did it I came out from under there looking like a whitish blackish gook covered blob.

Silos suck for sure. Look for lakes if you're not somewhere there's hundreds of them. They usually match the shape on the chart nicely and the ones worth using for landmarks are huge. Easy to see a long ways away. Many folks try to use towns and roads and stuff that's small. Look at the chart like a topo map and find huge things. Much easier. :)

Plus once you memorize all the huge things in an area near home, you just kinda look around and go, "Airport is that way... there's the reservoir and the big riverbed that leads right to the highway intersection and that's a couple miles outside the Delta and a good place to call them..."

Big landmarks. Mucho easier. Give that a try.
 
Update: Week 17 (~56hrs)
> Short Version: Soft Field Landing + 90 degree Crosswind ==> FRUSTRATION!!!!

> Another two lessons this week, lots of hood time, unusual attitudes, specialty landings and specialty takeoffs
> I purposely scheduled a mid afternoon lesson over the weekend to get more challenging winds...boy did that happen.
> Landing the Skylane with a fair amount of power to gently touch down makes sense and takes forever...doing it with a nice direct crosswind however just makes the crosswind landing even more difficult.
> At this point I feel so comfortable flying...with this one huge obvious exception. Hence the frustration.
> The unusual attitudes and recoveries are the opposite of the crosswind...fun!
> The soft field take off in the Skylane took about 4 tries to get it right. With 20degrees of flaps and yoke pulled all the way back the runway just disappears when full power is applied...nose pushes way up. Hey, maybe that's what taking off in a taildragger feels like! Anyway, this thing takes off before the IAS even says 40mph...I didn't believe it until he said "I'll do one and you call out speeds". Actually the toughest part wasn't staying aligned with the runway with the new nose up attitude and left turning tendency, it is being comfortable quickly pushing the nose back over right after takeoff to increase speed. My first two attempts he had to intervent and push way more forward than I would have thought because I felt so close to the runway and wanted to climb.
> Another one that never even crossed my mind was aborting a soft field landing just as we touch down ("Its too slushy go around now!"). I forgot it had all 40degrees of flaps out and didn't get them back to 20 before giving it power...that 40 deg of flaps has crazy drag.
> Had one awesome short field landing!!!! Hard to believe how short of a distance it can land in and be full stopped - wow!!!!
> I purposely picked the windiest day this week to try these darned soft field cross wind landings...not looking forward to it :(
> No solo work this week between wx and other family stuff.
> Trying to knock out everything else but night flight so get sunset times back a bit.
> We are thinking of the written in about 2-3 weeks.
> Looking like a check ride possibly 4wks from now.
 
Update: Week 18 (~59hrs)
> Short Version: 90 Deg crosswind practice & Endoresment to fly to our permanent hangar (over 25nm)

> Two Lessons this week.
> First lesson was crosswinds only, CFI picked the runway with 90deg crosswinds at 12...15. Still challenging for me. I ended with two he really liked but it definitely not natural nor am I quick enough YET at the whole process.
> Second lesson was to fly out to our permanent hangar location which is more than 25nm. After that he signed the recurring cross country (less than 50nm) so I can go out there and back or even start from there. This will free us up from the temporary hangar costs starting in October. So that was one month more than we had originally planned...not too bad.
> Flying to the small airport is so different. Trees along one side although not close enough to be a direct hazard...effect the winds in ways the big airport does not have unless its coming from behind a hangar row.
> The second flight was mostly hood time on the way back so now over 2hrs but still more to go.
> Did 0.9 of solo yesterday. It was overcast at 2500agl so just stayed in the pattern and did touch and go's. There was a 9kt wind at 30 degrees so just enough to try some crosswind technique by myself...still a work in progress!
> Coolest part of yesterday: A company in the Twin Cities had some type of work party and had Tim McGraw playing at Lake Minnetonka. I guess they set it up so the boaters could watch! Anyhow, they must have invited the B-25 from St.Paul to fly over. So they flew around the south side and requested permission to transition our Delta. SO I saw them about a mile away as I did my downwind. Then about 10 minutes later I heard the same request on the way back. This time my downwind timed out to their transition in the same direction. Tower calls: "Sklyane one two Quebec north American to your right transitioning to the east". Me: "Tally-ho the B-25, one two Quebec" :) I never say tally-ho...but couldn't resist this one time. Plus I got a much better look as we were closer and they were just a bit higher. I'm gonna miss this stuff when we move back out to our permanent location.
> More hood time this week and at trying to do the first hour of night flight this week- schedule permitting.
 
Sinistar said:
> Landing the Skylane with a fair amount of power to gently touch down makes sense and takes forever...doing it with a nice direct crosswind however just makes the crosswind landing even more difficult.
Click to expand...

The power is fine, it's the additional airspeed that's not. That's what gets people when they "land with power", they're also landing fast, which means they have a longer period of time from "on the ground" to "wing isn't flying anymore" in which to mess up directional control. :)

Sinistar said:
> The soft field take off in the Skylane took about 4 tries to get it right. With 20degrees of flaps and yoke pulled all the way back the runway just disappears when full power is applied... [snipped]... Actually the toughest part wasn't staying aligned with the runway with the new nose up attitude and left turning tendency,
Click to expand...

"If you don't put in more right rudder, I'm going to remove the pedal after we land and beat you with it." :) :) :)

You'll get used to just stomping the thing to the floor before shoving the power up when you know you're going to pull the nose up like that. Especially in the Skylane. Might as well get it over with, it doesn't do anything until the airflow starts anyway. :) :) :)

Sinistar said:
> I purposely picked the windiest day this week to try these darned soft field cross wind landings...not looking forward to it :(
Click to expand...

Doing that will pay off for decades.

Like an old friend used to joke, who taught in Cheyenne, WY... "I soloed students in 20 knot winds or greater... because they've never flown in anything else! If the wind were to quit, they probably couldn't find the runway!"

Sinistar said:
...definitely not natural nor am I quick enough YET at the whole process.
Click to expand...

But look at your progress from the start! You *know* you're not quick enough, but that means ... you know how to do it! Isn't that realization, cool?? There was a time when you didn't know how to do it, OR that you'd have to do things quicker. Nifty, eh? :)

Think you'll enjoy the night hours, if you can get them in this week... or whenever you do.
 
Thanks again Denver Pilot!!!

Yeah the realization that you now know what you didn't know seems to be the beginning of solving the challenge. I know exactly what I need to do, have even experienced it a few times. Just not enough repetitions and variations to really make it click yet. It is amazing what the plane can do with someone skilled flying the darn thing.

Going into all of this I am sure each of us students will have several hurdles - for me, had I known my #1 would be right rudder and #2 would be crosswind landings...perhaps I would have asked my wife more about those, tried to watch more videos, etc...basically to become as aware as possible. But you just can't know what you don't know until you've faced it once! If I've learned one thing in flying...I do know that there is a lot of things I don't know and at this age some will take longer and more repetitions than if I was younger.

I like your quote regarding being beaten with the right rudder. Probably would have made we learn it quicker!!!!

With the long weekend holiday, I won't get in the night flight until next week but that is fine. Finally able to fly to our home hangar was which was great yesterday. I checked the log books last night, so far I think 36 flights with the instructor and 14 solo flights and still loving it!
 
Update: Week 19 (~61hrs)
> Short Version: No lessons, just two solo flights + holidays

> Took several days off to hang out with the family, go to the fair, go to the lake so no lessons.
> No night flight last week...but is now schedule for tonight :)
> Did first solo flight to move the plane back to our permanent hanger while we were out of town.
> Second solo flight was to move it back for the night flight tonite.
> Wow on the first flight out to our home base my landings were yuck. I was sure the runway was narrower (its not :)). After giving it some thought I think it was the lack of features throwing off my visual queues as to where to flare, etc. Where I am training there are hangars, a road, houses, power lines, another runway, etc. At our home base its 2000'ft of 7' tall corn on the left, 7' tall corn before the numbers and then a tree line a ways off on the right.
> Today when flying it back it was early morning (I was more awake). I slowed things down a bit. All 5 landings were greasers (actually I hate that term but I'm using it today!). Two were really good short field landings. And this crisp cool morning air.....zero to 1000agl...before you know it :)
> Then flew back to the controlled airport. Did two really nice T&G's and the final landing was a short field so short I think I PO'd the tower because I went to turn so early and there was a plane being tugged in my direction so I stayed on the runway and took the next taxiway so it wasn't official I guess.
> Learned a couple lessons this week...other than my solo cross countries this was only my second morning flying and actually the earliest. Wow, I was way more alert and relaxed. During training most mornings just don't work. If I could do it all over again I would have traded evenings for mornings.
> Today I tried something different. Breaking the flight day mentally into 3 unique parts: Pre-flight, flying and post-flight. I told myself during pre-flight "you are the mechanic now...don't think about flying". Dumbest thing, found a loose screw!. I think I had been getting too far ahead and thinking about the flight while pre-flighting. When I finished tugging it out and right as I went to disconnect the tow-bar (at that specific minute) I said: "Now you are the pilot". The pilot makes sure that tow bar it is off and clear and did a last walk around and hopped in. When I landed and finally turned it off I said it is shutdown time, be the mechanic again and secure this baby for another day, look for things wrong, etc. I actually think this forcing myself to break things into roles helped a bit.
> The transition from uncontrolled radio work to controlled radio work threw me a bit. My arrival to the Delta was a bit dorky sounding. And I forgot to switch to ground and got the "Not on ground" which sounds right up there with "Guaaaaaaaaard".
> During the flight today, I slowed way down, 20deg flaps, carb heat on and practiced forward slips about 1500' above a local grass strip. Trying to get more comfortable with forward cross control slips for crosswind landings. I think it helped but probably too fast to get the totally right feel. Definitely took a lot of rudder and definitely lost altitude in each try.
> Its still fun, can't wait to be done.
 
Update: Week 20 (~64hrs)
> Short Version: 1st Night Flight, More Hood Time, More Crosswind Landings, Pizza Run!

> First night flight was not what I expected. I had done one night flight as a passenger a year ago..much different.
> Takeoff and taxing around the Delta was fine (and it was still open)
> Night landings were weird (we did 8). I kept flaring a bit early (like 1 foot) so not too bad but I need to get my peripheral vision to lock onto the runway lights or something?
> The worst was....FINDING THE AIRPORT!
> Since my only other night flight was out in the 'E' frontier the runway was obvious. However for this night it was to another delta in town. The CFI vectored me but I finally said "I just do not see it". It was on his side but that wasn't it, it was just more subtle and mixed in with all the lights on Minneapolis.
> It was interesting to be at the airport as it shutdown.
> It was just as interesting returning to the home Delta and for the first time it wasn't really a Delta anymore.
> I think I did pretty good on navigation, use of lights, being able to work in the cockpit at night etc.
> We have a 2hr night cross country scheduled for later this week.
> Spent one day of cross wind landings. My mind was so dialed on what to do for the cross wind that I found myself screwing up the approach or flare! By the end I was just starting to feel it. So I really need to not think cross wind until I'm down near the ground, just rotating, etc rather back during downwind or base or final.
> Did more hood time, just one more quick session and that should be the full 3hrs. My toughest one at this point is maintaining altitude, especially during really steep turns and the vertical speed indicator covered.
> Somewhere in all of this I've gotten a bit sloppy on maintaining altitude (used to be dialed in, always within 100', lately now 200' or a bit more error).
> I decided to augment the final phase of this training with the King Schools ground school package. The goal is get through it by early next week, take sample tests and then review with CFI. Maybe take written late next week.
> The wife hasn't had much time in the plane so I was kicked to the back seat, wife was pilot and 9yo daughter was copilot. I ordered Pizza in advance then we flew there and the delivery guy was just driving up as we landed. Pizza under the wing is my daughter's favorite...HUGE SMILE on here face..she loves it...we do too :)
> Will probably fly solo early this coming week to just practice landings again, especially short field.
 
Sinistar said:
Update: Week 20 (~64hrs)
> Short Version: 1st Night Flight, More Hood Time, More Crosswind Landings, Pizza Run!

> First night flight was not what I expected. I had done one night flight as a passenger a year ago..much different.
> Takeoff and taxing around the Delta was fine (and it was still open)
> Night landings were weird (we did 8). I kept flaring a bit early (like 1 foot) so not too bad but I need to get my peripheral vision to lock onto the runway lights or something?
> The worst was....FINDING THE AIRPORT!
> Since my only other night flight was out in the 'E' frontier the runway was obvious. However for this night it was to another delta in town. The CFI vectored me but I finally said "I just do not see it". It was on his side but that wasn't it, it was just more subtle and mixed in with all the lights on Minneapolis.
> It was interesting to be at the airport as it shutdown.
> It was just as interesting returning to the home Delta and for the first time it wasn't really a Delta anymore.
> I think I did pretty good on navigation, use of lights, being able to work in the cockpit at night etc.
> We have a 2hr night cross country scheduled for later this week.
> Spent one day of cross wind landings. My mind was so dialed on what to do for the cross wind that I found myself screwing up the approach or flare! By the end I was just starting to feel it. So I really need to not think cross wind until I'm down near the ground, just rotating, etc rather back during downwind or base or final.
> Did more hood time, just one more quick session and that should be the full 3hrs. My toughest one at this point is maintaining altitude, especially during really steep turns and the vertical speed indicator covered.
> Somewhere in all of this I've gotten a bit sloppy on maintaining altitude (used to be dialed in, always within 100', lately now 200' or a bit more error).
> I decided to augment the final phase of this training with the King Schools ground school package. The goal is get through it by early next week, take sample tests and then review with CFI. Maybe take written late next week.
> The wife hasn't had much time in the plane so I was kicked to the back seat, wife was pilot and 9yo daughter was copilot. I ordered Pizza in advance then we flew there and the delivery guy was just driving up as we landed. Pizza under the wing is my daughter's favorite...HUGE SMILE on here face..she loves it...we do too :)
> Will probably fly solo early this coming week to just practice landings again, especially short field.
Click to expand...
Was there any moon out? When I did mine there was no moon and we transitioned some remote swamp area and the blackness kept making me want to turn on the headlights(as in a car) but here was nothing to see but black. It was a weird sensation.
 
Actually there was a near full moon, the CFI was grumbling a bit as he wanted it dark. The night cross country is tonight so probably another night with some moonlight.
 
Update: Week 21 (~68hrs)
> Short Version: Night Cross Country + OVERDUE!, Busy Fly-In, More Solo Crosswind Practice

> Knocked out the dual cross country, it was a lot darker this time. Although I was tired (got up at 5:30am that day), I was finding the checkpoints, spotted all the field beacon's, was finding the runways, etc.
> Did a lot of no light landings, takeoffs and taxiing just to get comfortable. Did one no light landing by accident (remember checklist). Was on short final and didn't see the lights but was close enough that I knew the distraction of turning on the light should be avoided.
> Major screw up in the flight plan!!!! I did the entire flight plan by hand (it was just right). I then wrote out all the items to call it in to FSS. On it, I accounted for extra time for full stops at the various airports. Then I entered the plan into Garmin Pilot, duplicating everthing to see how close they were...very close. And I had asked the instructor if he would mind me filing the plan electronically at least once so I did. In flight I activated it with FSS. I had realized early on that my total time including full stops would be a little short so we decided to cancel it enroute after the last stop before landing. Did that. Landed. Put away plane. Looked at phone....3 calls from Leidos!!!!! I called them immediately. They said no worries it was canceled. On each of my cross countries I had done them on paper and then re-did them on Garmin Pilot. On each of those cases I knew I had to override the final arrival time as the tablet does not account for full stop times en-route. Now on this night flight when I re-did it on the tablet I had forgot to override the arrival time. So in essence, my electronic filing was pure flight time with no time allowed for full stop landings. I got lucky...and when we called in what we thought was early was in fact almost 20 minutes overdue..yikes!!!!
>> This does not dissuade me from filing electronically...actually I figure I will be more likely to file VFR flights plan if working electronically
>> Account for all the trip time !!!
>> I still prefer to talk to the briefer for Wx and I prefer to activate in the air.
>> When landing after any VFR flight plan...check your phone right after landing...not after putting the plane away. That extra 20-30 minutes might be really, really costly!
> Asked the CFI to do a flyin (off the clock of course, I bought breakfast). It was a pretty busy fly-in for our area (1D6). Maybe around 100 planes and hundreds and hundreds of people. It was a great experience as we arrived when it was busy (to me)! Listening to their CTAF 20 miles out, each minute or two we would count a new plane announcing inbound. This was the shortest and narrowest strip for me so far (2770x40). Luckily, on the ground, he explained that I should follow "that guy" (since his vehicle wasn't marked) for parking. Lots of taxiing on the grass, etc. The worst part was a argument over the air regarding a guy on the ground coordinating things on CTAF. I thought the guy on the ground did a good job. But that a-hole in the air spent so much time chewing him out that myself and the plane behind us couldn't announce crossing, downwind, bases, or finals!!! I really wanted to announce my entering downwind and turn to final..at least but nope.
> Practiced more cross wind landings when near my solo endorsement requirements. I am now able to land it on the upwind wheel but am still letting go of the aileron and instead of following through. The most important thing that has helped me is learning that I am not dipping the wing early enough. So I will practice that more.
> Just two chapters left of the King Ground School review so ideally I would do the written this week but I suspect it will be next week.

...its still fun but I want to be done :)
 
I think we're at about the same place. What power settings do you use landing? I've been pulling to 15", 20º of flaps, and pitching for 80kts abeam the numbers, then 65kts over the fence and milk the power down.
 
Sinistar said:
So in essence, my electronic filing was pure flight time with no time allowed for full stop landings. I got lucky...and when we called in what we thought was early was in fact almost 20 minutes overdue..yikes!!!!
Click to expand...

Someday... you'll forget to close a flight plan, and the call from Leidos will come while you're in the airport restaurant having lunch with your pilot buddies...

(Whistles... nope. Never seen that happen... not to me... ever... the guy who used to get the phone calls to go looking for airplanes oj the ramp in the middle of the night...) LOL!

It happens. :)

The funniest story on that I ever heard was the notification coming in from AFRCC to the guy who said, "I know that aircraft is fine. I just landed it." :)
 
ktup-flyer said:
I think we're at about the same place. What power settings do you use landing? I've been pulling to 15", 20º of flaps, and pitching for 80kts abeam the numbers, then 65kts over the fence and milk the power down.
Click to expand...
Cool, yeah I'm guessing we're pretty close.

Its funny, I can "just do it" but in a way its hard to remember to write it down :) But here goes:

Coming in from outside the pattern I start to slow it down, mixture rich, prop is still out for cruise (lets say 17"MP)
Midfield on downwind I pull the carb heat, landing light on, flaps 10 (the carb heat is like a air brake BTW!)
Turning Base MP==>15", Flaps 20deg, Prop In Full (this is smooth!), descent rate of about 400ft/min, add elevator up trim
Turning Final RPM==> 1700 or 1800, Flaps 40deg, descent rate about 600ft/min, speed about 80mph, more elevator up trim
Just prior to crossing the numbers, pull off all power, quick dial in last elevator up trim,
Fly it down into ground effect, hold the nose level for a bit and then with all those flaps speed comes off fast so back on the yoke can come quickly. During early landing practice I thought I could do this one handed as I feared I needed my hand on the throttle...NOPE! I need two hands to finish the landing and can find the throttle quickly if needed.

My wife likes to land with 30degrees of flaps on final. I've seen her just set the rpm at 1700rpm on downwind, add 10 flaps on each turn and fly flawless, perfect 500ft/min descents from downwind right to landing. She probably has like 50,000 more lands than me though :) She also lands full stall with power going to idle at/over the numbers.

I find it hard to find the 30 degree flap location. Plus my CFI wants me to be really good at full stall landings with all 40deg, mainly to get that final kinetic energy down. And he continuously asks "If the engine goes out now will we make the runway". I can now say "yes", way more than "no"! But this means keeping more power on early and taking it away later/gradually and being a little higher vs just one setting. We have parallels that are rather close and on occasions landing side by side I have yet to see someone higher than me. The downside is that I do sometimes need higher descent rates on final so I am still finding the right balance. And short fields for me are just "weird". Feels very odd dragging it in at such a slow speed and the occasional stall horn chirping near the numbers. But wow, can the old Sklyane land and stop fast with those big 40deg flaps handing out there.

We've also done 20deg flap landings and also practiced with none (simulate failure or master is off and they have no power). Landing with some power can be really nice. My first exposure to a landing with power on was many, many lessons later practicing soft field...felt like I had forever...and we ended up using 1500rpm and 20deg of flaps. I think 1400rpm would also work nicely.

It sounds like you have found a nice power/flap setting to give you a nice gradual transition to landing. I bet soft field landings for you are a piece of cake!!
 
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