Is this correct?

[Tarheel Pilot]

Ok, this has been bothering me since I attended a seminar about ATC communication. I fly out of an airport that is inside class B airspace. Now I use to fly out of a non-towered field, and when we would go up, and get close to the Class B airspace this is what we would do.

1. Level off 500 feet below the airspace

2. Contact the Controller with "Charlotte Departure Cherokee 7291F"

3. "7291F, Charlotte Departure go ahead."

4. "Charlotte Departure, we are five miles east of 8A6, at 2,500 feet, requesting flight following, 7291F"

5. "91F, radar contact, squawk 2801, cleared through Bravo airspace."

6. "Squawking 2801, cleared through Bravo airspace."

I was just wondering if that's the correct way to do it, I ask because I know that controllers tend to hate the "with you" thing.

 

[KennyFlys]

You're saying "who you are, what you are, where you are and your request." Although it may be understood you want to enter Class B during flight following, it can also be interpreted you'd accept tracking around the Class B. So, I'd simply add you wish "transit through Class B" so there is no room for confusion.

Beyond that tidbit, what else was the issue?

 

[poadeleted20]

The only thing to add to Ken's note is that in addition to requesting clearance through the B-space, you should tell the controller where you want to go. Since the B-space clearance must include a route, the controller has to know where you're going in order to issue the clearance. In addition, the controller normally won't clear you or call radar contact until your squawk is observed. Thus...

4. "Charlotte Departure, 7291F, we are five miles east of 8A6, at 2,500 feet, requesting clearance through the Bravo airspace to Pork Rind Muni."

5. "91F, squawk 2801."

6. "Squawk 2801, 91F"

7. "91F, radar contact, cleared through Bravo airspace direct Pork Rind, maintain 2,500."

 

[KennyFlys]

The only thing to add to Ken's note is that in addition to requesting clearance through the B-space, you should tell the controller where you want to go. Since the B-space clearance must include a route, the controller has to know where you're going in order to issue the clearance. In addition, the controller normally won't clear you or call radar contact until your squawk is observed. Thus...

4. "Charlotte Departure, 7291F, we are five miles east of 8A6, at 2,500 feet, requesting clearance through the Bravo airspace to Pork Rind Muni."

5. "91F, squawk 2801."

6. "Squawk 2801, 91F"

7. "91F, radar contact, cleared through Bravo airspace direct Pork Rind, maintain 2,500."

Oops, I thought I had read a destination in the request. Thanks for catching that.

I'm also thinking it can be less confusing if using an airport name as opposed to the alphanumeric code. All-alphabet codes are more distinct but alphanumeric can be more similar to another airport in the region. We have a couple in our area that are pretty close.

 

[tonycondon]

i think the "with you" thing annoys more nitpicky CFI's than Controllers.

 

[wbarnhill]

i think the "with you" thing annoys more nitpicky CFI's than Controllers.

Agreed, every time I've heard it uttered (even by the big guys), the controller essentially ignored it. I think they just tune it out.

 

[jesse]

Ok, this has been bothering me since I attended a seminar about ATC communication. I fly out of an airport that is inside class B airspace. Now I use to fly out of a non-towered field, and when we would go up, and get close to the Class B airspace this is what we would do.

1. Level off 500 feet below the airspace

2. Contact the Controller with "Charlotte Departure Cherokee 7291F"

3. "7291F, Charlotte Departure go ahead."

4. "Charlotte Departure, we are five miles east of 8A6, at 2,500 feet, requesting flight following, 7291F"

5. "91F, radar contact, squawk 2801, cleared through Bravo airspace."

6. "Squawking 2801, cleared through Bravo airspace."

I was just wondering if that's the correct way to do it, I ask because I know that controllers tend to hate the "with you" thing.

That works. I would change that to:

"Departure Cherokee 7291F is files miles east of 8A6 at 2,500 request class bravo clearance at 4,500 direct XXXX"

Drops it all into one quick thing to say. No reason to call them. Have them call you. Call them again. and have them acknowledge. They are perfectly capable of picking it all up in the same call. I also do not bother to say "Minneapolis" or "Charlotte" departure if there is no other departure in the area that you would confuse them with. Usually there isn't.

You are also answering their next two questions which is "what altitude do you want?" and "where are you going?". Of course if the airport you are going to is far away and unknown you might want to just give them a direction instead.

I've never understood people that call up a controller. have the controller acknowledge them, and call up again with the information. If you listen to ATC you'll hear a LOT of people doing it all on the first call. Then you'll eventually here some guy call up and do it that way. It just sounds like a big waste of time.

 

[Bill]

I've never understood people that call up a controller. have the controller acknowledge them, and call up again with the information. If you listen to ATC you'll hear a LOT of people doing it all on the first call. Then you'll eventually here some guy call up and do it that way. It just sounds like a big waste of time.

I always call "approach, bugsmasher 123zz request". Then put in my request after the initial callup. My instructor told me this is the best way to do it (he is a retired controller) as the controller may be busy working multiple positions and may not be expecting a lengthy request. Sounds resonable to me.

 

[NC Pilot]

I always call "approach, bugsmasher 123zz request". Then put in my request after the initial callup. My instructor told me this is the best way to do it (he is a retired controller) as the controller may be busy working multiple positions and may not be expecting a lengthy request. Sounds resonable to me.

Bill,

Same here. Only had one controller (Atlanta Center Controller with an attitude - BarkleyDog knows of him) come back with a smart ass response. My understanding is that most controllers prefer a short call up to get their attention, followed by more information when they can make themselves ready to react and process. To come on with a long diatribe the controller cannot process clogs the frequency and often results in having to repeat the request, resulting in a waste of more air time.

 

[KennyFlys]

I've never understood people that call up a controller. have the controller acknowledge them, and call up again with the information. If you listen to ATC you'll hear a LOT of people doing it all on the first call. Then you'll eventually here some guy call up and do it that way. It just sounds like a big waste of time.

I always call "approach, bugsmasher 123zz request". Then put in my request after the initial callup. My instructor told me this is the best way to do it (he is a retired controller) as the controller may be busy working multiple positions and may not be expecting a lengthy request. Sounds reasonable to me.

Things can get pretty busy around Atlanta. So, shorter, initial calls are often better.

If the spacing between communications is short, I'll go with Bill's version. If it's not quite as packed, I'll go with Jesse's version. It's just a judgment call. I know how I'd feel if I were the other plane on vectors and awaiting clearance for an approach. But, the request should be short and distinct.

I'm reminded of a time when on approach into Athens, GA. I had been cleared for the option by tower. Tower told a Piper on a long final to do a wide, right 360. The Piper's pilot was asking why he had to do that when he was in front of me. Tower replied, "The Skylane is on IFR. He has priority." I know it was kind of wrong of me but I was still smiling ear-to-ear. Being instrument rated and flying IFR has its privileges.

 

[jesse]

Bill,

Same here. Only had one controller (Atlanta Center Controller with an attitude - BarkleyDog knows of him) come back with a smart ass response. My understanding is that most controllers prefer a short call up to get their attention, followed by more information when they can make themselves ready to react and process. To come on with a long diatribe the controller cannot process clogs the frequency and often results in having to repeat the request, resulting in a waste of more air time.

I would believe that if I had to repeat anything to the controller. Extremely rare that something has to be repeated and really speeds things up. Get into real busy airspace and it really slows things down doing it in several messages. It is faster to do it all at once.

I fly in busy airspace all the time and it is very rare that I hear someone split it up like indicated above. When someone does you can almost hear the controller getting annoyed. They are there--they are listening--and they are ready to speak. They don't need it broken up. Make it quick.

My opinion is this. If you are making a standard request that the controller has dealt with a thousand times and you know they can do the same now. Get it over with. Say it. They'll respond. It'll be nice and quick like. If you are making some odd request or doing something that you know they'll have to think about-- state "request" ..but don't just say "request" give them a bit of a clue as to what you are requesting. There is no reason to be asking for a request to request something.

Don Brown / Atlanta Center:

"Atlanta Center, Cessna one two three for five, request."​

I hear this exact transmission at least 25 times a day. Now tell me, is this guy IFR or VFR? What does he want? He is literally making a request two make a request. It's a waste of time. If you're going to make a request, then make a request. Even if it's something out of the ordinary. Condense it down to one or two words.

"Atlanta Center, Cessna one two three for five, request routing change."​

If you think the routing change will be too complicated for a controller two get "on the fly" -- the first time you say it -- you've now got the controller's attention and he is prepared to write down your routing request.
If you're just requesting direct to a fix you've already filed, you're wasting time. We already know everybody wants to go direct. If you can't stop yourself from asking, then at least do it in one transmission.

"Atlanta Center, Cessna one two three for five, request direct Spartanburg." ​

That way we can just say "unable" without even looking away from what we're concentrating on at the moment.

I know we've got some controllers on here. Which would you guys prefer?

 

[NC Pilot]

I fly in busy airspace all the time and it is very rare that I hear someone split it up like indicated above. When someone does you can almost hear the controller getting annoyed. They are there--they are listening--and they are ready to speak. They don't need it broken up. Make it quick.

I know we've got some controllers on here. Which would you guys prefer?

My usual call up is "Raleigh Departure Skylane N****R off of Johnston County". This is after calling Departure on the ground and getting a squawk code so they know I'm coming. They come back with N****R squawk 1234 and ident. It is often several minutes before they can get back to me, but the conversation is short.

Too often I hear someone come on with "Raleigh Departure Piper N***** off of Johnston County 1,500 feet heading 356 degrees IFR to somewhere climbing to 6,000 feet direct Tar River VOR currently." More than 1/2 the time the guy steps on someone else or the controller comes back with "Piper, I'll get back to you" - then has to call 2 or 3 planes he was about to issue instructions to. In a minute or two the Piper is asked to repeat where he is and where he is going. That is frustrating to the controllers and the ones I have talked to hate it.

Perhaps this is a diffenence between the Eastern corrodors and the Midwest. Don't know, but this is what has worked for me.

 

[Nav8tor]

Another reason to keep the initial call short is you never know if you key the mike at the same time as someone else, including the controller, and interfere with each other's transmissions. Limiting the initial call to just your N number is like raising your hand for your turn on the frequency.

 

[tonycondon]

i make a 'cold' call if the controller sounds busy. but I fly in the midwest. as long as you stay away from chicago it doesnt get that busy. so i give em everything, like jesse.

 

[SkyHog]

I usually butt in with the tail number only, because I've been told too many times "Aircraft calling, standby, break, American XXX, turn left" or even "Aircraft calling, I was on the landline, state your request again."

So I don't do the full call because I don't want to repeat myself, not because ATC likes it better that way. Granted, this is mostly with ABQ Center, which doesn't do as much traffic as Minneapolis Center or Atlanta, so they're probably a bit more on their game.

edit: by "they" I mean the ones that aren't ABQ Center.

 

[jesse]

It's also pretty rare that I have an initial call up with center. I always have flight following from takeoff which means my initial call up is with ground. When I'm coming back to Minneapolis I may pick up flight following from Approach.

 

[Bill]

My opinion is this. If you are making a standard request that the controller has dealt with a thousand times and you know they can do the same now. Get it over with. Say it. They'll respond.

Maybe, maybe not. That guy might be working departure, tower, ground, and CD all at once. Or maybe just two persons working all the stations. Saying "request" is telling the controller I have a somewhat lengthy request, get back to me when you're ready to receive that request.

It is the opposite of the controller calling you with a routing change and "advise when ready to copy." I'm giving him the chance to be ready to copy.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, Jesse.

 

[jesse]

It is the opposite of the controller calling you with a routing change and "advise when ready to copy." I'm giving him the chance to be ready to copy.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, Jesse.

Not really. I'm dealing with a LOT of things in the airplane and communicating is the last one.

Controllers communicate.

I suspect that this might change region to region. It's very rare that I hear someone around here state 'request'. The only pilots I've ever flown with that do it are the ones that fly uncontrolled airports all the time. I've never been based at an airport that wasn't controlled. It's been that way since day one for me.

 

[Dwight B. Van Zanen]

Ok, this has been bothering me since I attended a seminar about ATC communication. I fly out of an airport that is inside class B airspace. Now I use to fly out of a non-towered field, and when we would go up, and get close to the Class B airspace this is what we would do.

1. Level off 500 feet below the airspace

2. Contact the Controller with "Charlotte Departure Cherokee 7291F"

3. "7291F, Charlotte Departure go ahead."

4. "Charlotte Departure, we are five miles east of 8A6, at 2,500 feet, requesting flight following, 7291F"

5. "91F, radar contact, squawk 2801, cleared through Bravo airspace."

6. "Squawking 2801, cleared through Bravo airspace."

I was just wondering if that's the correct way to do it, I ask because I know that controllers tend to hate the "with you" thing.

Another airport inside Class B? Not just under Class B? If you are flying inside Class B to a secondary airport it must be very close to the primary. I am only familiar with the Seattle situation, and with the other nearby airports you can get in and out without a Class B transition. They built the Class B area to make that possible. So the situations that call for a VFR transition are to pass through to get somewhere on the other side, instead of going over or around or under the approach ends. I usually go under the approach because it is just about as fast and avoids bothering them. I have requested going through a few times mostly with passengers who want to see the airport from 1500 feet.

As for the procedure, I have used the initial call to ask for attention. Then when they respond put everything in the second call including location, altitude, request, and distination. Most of the traffic they are dealing with is incoming or outgoing traffic they know about because of flight plans filed and in front of them. They are expecting the aircraft because the enroute controller or ground has passed them on. As a VFR transition you are unexpected.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

"Departure Cherokee 7291F is files miles east of 8A6 at 2,500 request class bravo clearance at 4,500 direct XXXX"

It's more of a waste of time if you have to repeat this. Don Brown has said something to that effect as well, though I don't have the time to dig it up right now.

If you have a longer request like this, just call "Approach, Bugsmasher 123." Then they'll be ready to copy it all down. Heck, I often do this when calling CD VFR. IFR, it's pretty simple for them to get all at once. "Clearance, Bugsmasher 123, IFR to Podunk Muni." VFR, it may be longer like "Clearance, bugsmasher 123, VFR to Boscobel at 4500 with a city tour below 3000 on departure."

I always call "approach, bugsmasher 123zz request". Then put in my request after the initial callup. My instructor told me this is the best way to do it (he is a retired controller)

Ah, but even "request" is redundant, much like "with you." If you just call with your tail number, the fact that you have a request is implicit.

 

[jesse]

It's more of a waste of time if you have to repeat this.

I would agree if I had to repeat it. But I can't really even think of the last time it happened. They understand what I'm saying and respond. If it's something to where I'm in doubt I'll do it differently.

If you are inbound to a class D airport what do you do? I do it all at once. Some pilots split it up. I think all at once, especially for this, makes the most sense.

 

[Dwight B. Van Zanen]

I would agree if I had to repeat it. But I can't really even think of the last time it happened. They understand what I'm saying and respond. If it's something to where I'm in doubt I'll do it differently.

If you are inbound to a class D airport what do you do? I do it all at once. Some pilots split it up. I think all at once, especially for this, makes the most sense.

Nothing wrong with either way, I guess. I was thinking that with Class B most all the traffic is IFR to or from Class A whether it is IMC or VMC, so expected. With Class D most of the traffic (nearly all) will be VFR on a VMC day, so the tower is expecting traffic to just call in "out of the blue". On the other hand, a low activity Class D tower is likely to have an ATC guy not very busy and not very ready to copy a request. I think I have had to repeat more with Class D than Class B.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm reminded of a time when on approach into Athens, GA. I had been cleared for the option by tower. Tower told a Piper on a long final to do a wide, right 360. The Piper's pilot was asking why he had to do that when he was in front of me. Tower replied, "The Skylane is on IFR. He has priority." I know it was kind of wrong of me but I was still smiling ear-to-ear. Being instrument rated and flying IFR has its privileges.

Since when does IFR have priority over VFR?

Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.

I could not find anything else in 91.113, 91.129, 91.175, or FAAO 7110.65R to indicate that IFR traffic ever has "priority" over VFR in the situation described. Being rated and flying IFR does have its privileges, but this is not one of them.

 

[SkyHog]

To Class D airports I do not call up with the number only, I spit it all out. Never seen a class D that was busy enough to warrant the "hey, listen" technique.

 

[Bill]

To Class D airports I do not call up with the number only, I spit it all out. Never seen a class D that was busy enough to warrant the "hey, listen" technique.

PDK??????????

 

[EdFred]

Since when does IFR have priority over VFR?

I could not find anything else in 91.113, 91.129, 91.175, or FAAO 7110.65R to indicate that IFR traffic ever has "priority" over VFR in the situation described. Being rated and flying IFR does have its privileges, but this is not one of them.

Controlled field, follow the tower's instructions. If the IFR hasn't/won't cancel, can't/won't accept a visual approach, then it's better for the tower to clear the IFR traffic to land, clearing up the system for anyone else waiting in queue for the approach. Telling the VFR guy to extend, hold, whatever, is less burden on the system.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

I have to agree with those who split up the transmission when calling approach. NY Approach is always busy up here, all the time, especially since they also sequence all VFR traffic into HPN. I once put all of the information into one transmission when calling the NOBBI sector and ended up having to repeat it again right after because the controller was in the middle of something else; a real waste of time for everyone.

When I initially call with my callsign, it allows the controller to write down my numbers and deal with whatever s/he was doing before my call, or assign me a squawk code before I make my next transmission (this happens all the time). A lot of times approach will respond to my initial transmission with: "November five two eight six charlie, ny approach, squawk zero two two one and say your request." which makes things move much faster.

When inbound to a small class D field, I'll spit everything out, but will speak my callsign slower than the rest of the transmission. This has always worked well for me in the past.

Pilot preference, but of the TRACON controllers I know and speak with, they prefer to have the transmissions split up.

 

[KennyFlys]

If your request is limited to three to five words and easily understood then state it. Otherwise, it should be delayed until the controller asks for it. End with "With request" and wait.

 

[EdFred]

If your request is limited to three to five words and easily understood then state it. Otherwise, it should be delayed until the controller asks for it. End with "With request" and wait.

I only add "with request" when I am IFR and already with that sector, and I want higher/lower/left right, or some other bit of information. If you aren't in the system with them yet, because you are VFR asking for flight following, of course you have a request.

 

[SupraPilot]

sometimes if flying into a very dead class D airport ill give my request in parts...ive been up in the towers of some of these dead class D's and the controllers are half asleep with a box of donuts on thier lap..you gotta give them time to wake up and grab the mic....

I prefer calling up with " Approach Piper N1234 VFR request" I learned from a controller, that sometimes they can be dealing with alot of airplanes both VFR and IFR that they can't remember every single airplane Number, so if they hear you calling like this...."Approach Piper N1234"....first they have to look through thier list of IFR airplanes to see if you are one of them...at least telling them "VFR request", gives them an idea of what to expect from you...
this was discussed a few months back on here also

Since we are on the topic...Say you are based out of an uncontrolled airport that is very close to a major Class B airport...your airport is within the inner ring on the sectional...perfect example of what i am talking about would be Linden KLDJ....its 4 miles from Newark intl...
what would be the best procedure for getting in and out of this airport??
IM thinkin TRY and get Newark Tower on the ground and tell them your about to depart and to which direction...but who knows..they are so busy sometimes they might even ignore you..if they can even hear you at all

 

[jesse]

Since we are on the topic...Say you are based out of an uncontrolled airport that is very close to a major Class B airport...your airport is within the inner ring on the sectional...perfect example of what i am talking about would be Linden KLDJ....its 4 miles from Newark intl...
what would be the best procedure for getting in and out of this airport??
IM thinkin TRY and get Newark Tower on the ground and tell them your about to depart and to which direction...but who knows..they are so busy sometimes they might even ignore you..if they can even hear you at all

The surface of the Bravo over that airport starts at 1,200 feet, 1,500 feet a few miles after that, followed by 3,000 feet. That is plenty of room. I would take off and call up Departure as I climbed out of the airport. Sometimes I just remain VFR and don't bother with Departure. It depends on the length of my flight. Keep it low. I have to do this all the time in Minneapolis. Works great except I'll be in a world of hurt if the engine quits at night.

 

[KennyFlys]

Since when does IFR have priority over VFR?
<snip>
I could not find anything else in 91.113, 91.129, 91.175, or FAAO 7110.65R to indicate that IFR traffic ever has "priority" over VFR in the situation described. Being rated and flying IFR does have its privileges, but this is not one of them.

It was the controller who called that one, not me. But, I was happy to take advantage of the situation. I get plenty cutting me off at my own non-towered airport.

Without digging into the regs to a greater detail, I think it's more a matter of ATC not being obligated to VFR traffic unless the "E" word is used or there is an urgent situation or requested flight assist. ATC was not obligated to clear that Piper to land at that time. ATC can call "unable" to any request by VFR traffic as well as IFR traffic if safety is not an issue. In this particular case, I'm guessing 91.123 applies. The controller may have seen separation as an issue for an IFR flight so he amended the Piper's clearance and ordered the 360.

 

[KennyFlys]

PDK??????????

Nawww.... I never noticed that there!

Man, don't even dream about a practice approach at that field on a weekday without filing and probably on Saturdays as well. I once had a wasted flight because the CFII who stood in for my own decided we didn't need to file. Approach has me down to outside AABEE and they tower is unable to handle my approach. I may continue a VFR approach but that's it. At the same time, LZU was having problems with their ILS/LOC so that wasn't an option. I wasn't a happy camper having wasted $200 bucks and not a dang thing accomplished but a single LOC back into GVL.

It was squeezing in a word in edgewise this last Saturday morning to get airborne. PDK is becoming the Van Nuys of Jawjuh.

 

[MauleSkinner]

My opinion is this. If you are making a standard request that the controller has dealt with a thousand times and you know they can do the same now. Get it over with. Say it. They'll respond. It'll be nice and quick like. If you are making some odd request or doing something that you know they'll have to think about-- state "request" ..but don't just say "request" give them a bit of a clue as to what you are requesting. There is no reason to be asking for a request to request something.

Usually takes them 2 or 3 tries to get my N-number right, so I start off with that by itself.

Otherwise, if it's not busy I'll make the full request. If it's busy, just the N-number on initial callup.

Fly safe!

David

p.s. Got a suggestion for your avatar, Jesse...it'd be much better if you cropped yourself out of it

 

[poadeleted20]

The two most common responses I hear from controllers in the Northeast Corridor when someone calls with all the info on the initial call are, "Uhh...I was on the landline...did someone call?" and "Aircraft making last transmission, say again your request, I missed it." The next most common is "Aircraft making last transmission, stand by, break, American 297, contact center 125.7," and it's a long, LONG time before the controller calls for the repeat. Another thing I hear is someone starting a call like that just as the controller gives an instruction to someone else, and then everyone has to wait for the long transmission to end to continue business.

Therefore, I recommend sticking with the AIM recommendations and making a short "attention-getter" followed by full information when acknowledges, especially when the frequency is busy. Just be ready to make a clear, complete, and concise transmission when you get the go-ahead.

 

[Dwight B. Van Zanen]

The surface of the Bravo over that airport starts at 1,200 feet, 1,500 feet a few miles after that, followed by 3,000 feet. That is plenty of room. I would take off and call up Departure as I climbed out of the airport. Sometimes I just remain VFR and don't bother with Departure. It depends on the length of my flight. Keep it low. I have to do this all the time in Minneapolis. Works great except I'll be in a world of hurt if the engine quits at night.

I have the impression this is the normal situation rather than the exception. They do some interesting Class B designs to be sure they DO NOT need to deal with stray VFR traffic that is just getting in and out in areas not in the direct approach path for the primary airport runways.

Even big stuff close is able to work around the Class B. At SEA (Seattle) off the south end not far is McChord Air Force Base. I had an interesting close encounter with a C5A when we were both passing under the south approach to SEA in opposite directions. And then to the northeast of SEA under Class B you have King County Airport (Boeing Field) where the Boeing company has an assembly plant. Some big planes go in and out, along with a lot of GA activity.

 

[SupraPilot]

The surface of the Bravo over that airport starts at 1,200 feet, 1,500 feet a few miles after that, followed by 3,000 feet. That is plenty of room. I would take off and call up Departure as I climbed out of the airport. Sometimes I just remain VFR and don't bother with Departure. It depends on the length of my flight. Keep it low. I have to do this all the time in Minneapolis. Works great except I'll be in a world of hurt if the engine quits at night.

i didnt even look at the chart...i just realized that Linden ISNT even inside the first ring for EWR...
But im sure there has to be an airport like this somewhere in this country...so wut would be the procedure...

 

[Nav8tor]

i didnt even look at the chart...i just realized that Linden ISNT even inside the first ring for EWR...
But im sure there has to be an airport like this somewhere in this country...so wut would be the procedure...

In that case it would be just like departing from the primary airport in the class B. You'd have to call clearance delivery for a departure clearance prior to take off.

 

[Dwight B. Van Zanen]

i didnt even look at the chart...i just realized that Linden ISNT even inside the first ring for EWR...
But im sure there has to be an airport like this somewhere in this country...so wut would be the procedure...

I think the rules say, in C and D you can take off from a non-towered airport in the C or D airspace of an adjacent airport if you contact the tower as soon as "practicable". Or words to that effect. If you can get them on the radio I would call while on the ground for departure. Going in, you need to be in contact to enter their airspace. No such wording for Class B that I am aware of. If you do not have a clearance, you can't fly in Class B. This is why I think they do all they can to make this a non-issue, by excluding secondary airports from the B airspace. If you find one, on the way in you need a clearance to enter Class B and follow approach instructions all the way to the runway. Getting out, they must have a way to hear you figured out so you can call for a clearance on the ground. And you follow departure instructions out of the airspace. I don't know of anywhere this is done, but someone may know of somewhere. I think I have this right, but some CFI will chime in to correct anything I got wrong.

 

[poadeleted20]

Dwight's right about Class B airspace, but I only know of one non-towered airport within the surface area of a Class B airspace -- a small field just west of Dulles, and they can reach Dulles Tower from the ground, which they are required to do before takeoff.