My auto insurance covers my vehicle and I must have an insurance policy for each vehicle I own. Is there such a policy whereby I could cancel the individual separate liability policies for my cars and just get one policy which covers whatever I drive? How about for a plane? Do such policies exist?
Is there insurance that covers whatever I drive or fly?
- Thread starter FORANE
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Well, cars have fleet policies, but I can't see any benefit to doing it that way. As for aircraft, you may find an underwriter who will do comprehensive liability cover, but I doubt it would be a good value.
bluerooster
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shorty
There are policies for both auto, and aircraft (individually).
And they are called non-owner policy. It will cover what you drive, if you get one for cars, as long as you do not own it. And the same for airplanes, it will cover what you fly, and are rated for, as long as you don't own it.
As to a blanket policy covering all your cars, and one covering all your airplanes, I don't know, but sorta doubt it.
And they are called non-owner policy. It will cover what you drive, if you get one for cars, as long as you do not own it. And the same for airplanes, it will cover what you fly, and are rated for, as long as you don't own it.
As to a blanket policy covering all your cars, and one covering all your airplanes, I don't know, but sorta doubt it.
Oh, you can buy any insurance product you can specify, you just might not like the premium.
I should have clarified; I meant to refer to insurance as owner of the vehicle and not as a renters policy.
It is just that with the plane I do not drive much yet own multiple cars. Even if I drove a bit I could only drive one car at a time. Just seems like there should be another option for folks who own multiple cars and only want liability coverage.
It is just that with the plane I do not drive much yet own multiple cars. Even if I drove a bit I could only drive one car at a time. Just seems like there should be another option for folks who own multiple cars and only want liability coverage.
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kgruber
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I saw an advertisement on TV that claimed they covered liability for everything you do with one policy. There is a name for it that I don't recall.
RJM62
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Geek on the Hill
It's probably possible, but would be difficult for cars because of state requirements that tie insurance to each individual vehicle. For everything else, perhaps an umbrella policy could be crafted that way.
-Rich
Umbrella policies usually require some base level of liability protection in place with a normal policy. Most have exclusions for aviation.
For your cars, it's available, you can get fleet liability, thing is it's typically a commercial product and winds up as more expensive than if you select one personal lines auto insurer and have a master liability policy with each of the cars listed/added to it with it's own premium. The problem with umbrella policies is that the actuaries have to determine premiums without specific information, so they will hedge high.
So for the cars, any competent agent should be able to set you up. As for adding an airplane to the coverage, it's not going to happen
marcoseddi
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With insurance just pay n shut up
JimNtexas
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Jim - In Texas!
Perhaps what you want is an umbrella liability policy. These are high deductible policies that are designed to kick in when your normal car, homeowner and other liablity policies top out.
Bill Clinton used his umbrella policy to help fund his legal defense when he was investigated for perjury.
If someone knows of an umbrella policy carrier that covers general aviation, please let me know!!!!
Bill Clinton used his umbrella policy to help fund his legal defense when he was investigated for perjury.
If someone knows of an umbrella policy carrier that covers general aviation, please let me know!!!!
You can get whatever you specify through a Lloyd's club, the premium it demands likely isn't worth it except maybe in the instances of being a high deductible excess policy. $1MM-$10MM excess policies weren't bad as I remember and I don't think everyone is afraid of GA.
docmirror
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I searched for months back in 08 looking for just such an umbrella policy. There were none at that time, and I doubt there are any now.
It would not be in the best interest of the fiduciary to write one policy on one person to cover liability without exclusion. The premiums would be pretty steep I would guess.
It would not be in the best interest of the fiduciary to write one policy on one person to cover liability without exclusion. The premiums would be pretty steep I would guess.
vdehart
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There are companies and individuals which will underwrite any insurance policy your heart and wallet desire. Commercially available? Not likely. But, if you consult with a firm and pay an ungodly sum of money you can get what you want.
That's the whole thing, unless you have a very specific need for a specialty combo insurance policy, it usually makes no sense over having a jacket of multiple policies. A good agent and you can still just write one check to them and they'll put together a nice package of commercially available products that will save you a lot of money.
JoseCuervo
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JoseCuervo
We have a fleet policy for our business, our insurance cards in each vehicle says "any owned vehicle by Xxxxx Corp."
I also have another card that I carry on my person, that says "any operated vehicle" is covered.
This covers cars, pu's, semi's, trailers, etc....
It costs a fortune.
I also have another card that I carry on my person, that says "any operated vehicle" is covered.
This covers cars, pu's, semi's, trailers, etc....
It costs a fortune.
asechrest
En-Route
A commercial auto policy providing symbol 1 coverage applies to "any auto" (including owned autos) without need to schedule. It applies only to liability and not to physical damage, medical payments, UM/UIM, or PIP. It wouldn't be cost effective for you and you'd likely not be eligible for most (all?) programs because your vehicles are personal use.
An umbrella policy would cover over your underlying auto policy, providing excess above those limits. You're required to carry a certain level of underlying coverage, and failure to do so means denial of an umbrella claim ("failure to maintain required underlying limits") or, if they're feeling generous, coverage of the claim after you come out of pocket for their required underlying. Most umbrella policies are rated off of the underlying exposure they expect - so you'll be required to update the company as you add or remove vehicles, either mid-term or at renewal, which is the opposite of what you want. So the umbrella is not a standalone solution that would work for you.
I'm not sure a solution exists for you outside of a manuscript policy $$$.
P.S. - I'll have to look around for an umbrella that doesn't exclude aviation. There are some rumors that the old USAA policies don't have the exclusion.
An umbrella policy would cover over your underlying auto policy, providing excess above those limits. You're required to carry a certain level of underlying coverage, and failure to do so means denial of an umbrella claim ("failure to maintain required underlying limits") or, if they're feeling generous, coverage of the claim after you come out of pocket for their required underlying. Most umbrella policies are rated off of the underlying exposure they expect - so you'll be required to update the company as you add or remove vehicles, either mid-term or at renewal, which is the opposite of what you want. So the umbrella is not a standalone solution that would work for you.
I'm not sure a solution exists for you outside of a manuscript policy $$$.
P.S. - I'll have to look around for an umbrella that doesn't exclude aviation. There are some rumors that the old USAA policies don't have the exclusion.
There are Personal and Professional Liability products out there that cover the gambit of losses, however getting them to cover aviation in the same policy as your personal or business liability requires a specialty writer who charges a premium above what one would pay for covering the risks individually. If you NEED that coverage, typically for professional reasons, you will pay commercial rate and that in the aviation market averages at 7-9 times the cost of what total business/personal coverages will run.
That goes for base coverage, the dollar one primary coverage. If you think you need $10MM liability and the primary only wants to write $1MM, then there are excess liability products where you have a better chance of negotiating out the aviation exclusion. I do know there are at least a few companies that will still do that for not too much extra premium, I don't know their names anymore, sorry.
docmirror
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There was a small window when USAA was acting as a retailer for a product that the re-insurer forgot to add the aviation exclusion. Once it was found, USAA quickly issued a policy revision and added that exclusion. I just spoke with them a few weeks ago and confirmed that all GA activities are specifically excluded. What's more, when I asked if they would write an owners GA policy, they wouldn't even associate with any of the GA insurance vendors and put it under their masthead.
Sad, because a lot of pilots are ex-military, and one would think that it would be a market that USAA should serve, but so far - nope.
asechrest
En-Route
Thanks for the info. I'm wondering if I could find it in the E&S umbrella market. I might send some emails just for giggles. I have a suspicion you might be right and the answer will be no.
asechrest
En-Route
Here's a thought: have you tried through an aviation broker an excess liability policy that would cover exclusively over your primary aviation insurance liability? Maybe a silly question; if it existed I guess we'd have heard about it around these parts.
I don't know anything about aviation insurance so I'm not sure. I could sell that type of product for a home, for example, that would give you a stated amount of liability insurance over and above the underlying liability; different from an umbrella in that it's less-broad and designed exclusively for the stated location. You could even purchase an Auto Excess Liability policy through the surplus lines market. Seems like a similar product through an aviation broker would make sense.
docmirror
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I'm not that smart on insurance, specifically av insurance, but we have some folks here that are pretty well versed. So, I'm not gonna take a stab at it.
What I do know a bit about is the actuarial methods behind the insurance and we have a serious history of awards escalating to reach the policy limits. In other words, settlements, and lawsuit awards rise as the policy limits have risen. So, this would say to me, that any upward pressure on liability limits would not be viewed favorably by the insurer(or re-insurer, as the case may be) even with higher premiums because they have some history that shows when the policy limits go up, so does the loss ratio. This is generally true in all types of insurance actuarial but it's even more prevalent in the av insurance biz.
What I do know a bit about is the actuarial methods behind the insurance and we have a serious history of awards escalating to reach the policy limits. In other words, settlements, and lawsuit awards rise as the policy limits have risen. So, this would say to me, that any upward pressure on liability limits would not be viewed favorably by the insurer(or re-insurer, as the case may be) even with higher premiums because they have some history that shows when the policy limits go up, so does the loss ratio. This is generally true in all types of insurance actuarial but it's even more prevalent in the av insurance biz.
docmirror
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I thought USAA was doing aviation market reselling.
You are correct, they do. I was wrong, and the guy I was talking to back in July was as well. I checked again, and they do offer aviation insurance. My apologies.
<edit; From their website - Make us your aviation insurance connection
USAA Insurance Agency partners with one of the country's leading aviation insurance agencies.
So, as I recall they are not putting the insurance on their masthead, but they are reselling someone else's coverage, maybe Avemco, or another specific underwriter. >
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dell30rb
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I sold a $1500 pickup to a local business owner last week. Runs a glorified janitorial service. He paid for it, had a mechanic fix the issues (needed a radiator and tires) and the title was signed over to one of his employees.
He recently decided that he would try doing this, trying to cut Down on his number of fleet vehicles, and give his loyal employees a perk.
Who is insuring it? Probably be fine under the employee, but there are cloudy elements involved.