Is there a "correct" call sign for the PA-28R?

rolivi said:
I say RV for the Vans and assume they are aware of the "experimental nature" of my plane.
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Sec. 91.319

Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.
...
(d) Each person operating an aircraft that has an experimental certificate shall--
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(3) Notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft into or out of airports with operating control towers.
 
If you fly a Tiger, the call up can get mangled many different ways (Tiger, Grumman or American). Problem with the last one is they'll say "American 360 turn heading blah blah blah" and you figure it's for an airliner ... only been called a Cheetah once.
 
I was flying my Cheetah near Redding, California, several summers ago, while wildfires were being battled in the nearby mountains. Redding is a base for firefighting aircraft, and in those days, a number of exotic Grumman warbird types were being used. ATC was careful to ask me, "Say type Grumman ... "
 
Pilawt said:
I was flying my Cheetah near Redding, California, several summers ago, while wildfires were being battled in the nearby mountains. Redding is a base for firefighting aircraft, and in those days, a number of exotic Grumman warbird types were being used. ATC was careful to ask me, "Say type Grumman ... "
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I don't get it. Is there a significant performance difference between these two?

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GrummanCheetah-AA5A-1205a.jpg
 
iamtheari said:
I don't get it. Is there a significant performance difference between these two?

avengerjk_title.jpg


GrummanCheetah-AA5A-1205a.jpg
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The only difference is the top requires a tail dragger endorsement. Once airborne though they both handle the same and have the same takeoff, climb, cruise and landing performance
 
Cruise speeds might be similar but the Avenger climbs faster, flys further and goes much higher than a Tiger. Handling is two fisted vs light controls of a Tiger. They called it a "Turkey" for a reason.
 
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I hate to disappoint, but in a world of 250-KT airplanes, ATC doesn't notice a 20-KT difference between an Arrow and an Archer, or a Skylane and Skyhawk. If someone calls themselves an Archer, I try to call them Archer, but on a busy sector, the strip says "P28A" and I know you're going to go about half-fast with regards to the jet traffic in the area. How pilots fly these airplanes varies just as much as the different types....how many pilots fly 100 knots to a 2-mile final and how many slow to 65 at the final approach fix? That is what ATC cares about.
 
frfly172 said:
Cherokee is a generic term,I used Arrow when calling atc,gives them a better idea of the airplanes performance.
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I call the 'kota a kota because I don't want the controller thinking its a lowly cherokee (which it is of course).

Murphey and I had this conversation on frequency with a Colorado Springs controller. There were three cherokees traveling from FTG to PUB for lunch and the controller actually mentioned something about the kota actually being a cherokee.
 
I fly an Archer and I always call up as "Archer xxxxxxxx". It's about 50/50 whether I keep being called Archer or get changed to Cherokee... I just listen for the N number. My theory has always been unique identifiers are better than common ones but it probably doesn't make much difference.

For clarity I know we prefer an identifier that tells what kind of aircraft we are, but I was always under the impression you could use whatever and ATC could change it to whatever. So hypothetically one could be Monkey 1 if I know what I'm talking about and now want to use/hear on the radio someday.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Personally, I only get offended when ATC calls me a Bonanza when I'm flying the Beech 18.
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The King Air 350 is a B35B on the controller's strip (or at least used to be)...had a buddy flying a 350 that was frequently called a Bonanza, even in the flight levels at 300+ knots ground speed.

When I was flying Falcons, I had an approach controller that kept calling me a Citation...when he finally gave me a freq change, I responded with, "Roger, GROUND CONTROL,...."

He chuckled and apologized. ;)
 
MauleSkinner said:
The King Air 350 is a B35B on the controller's strip (or at least used to be)...had a buddy flying a 350 that was frequently called a Bonanza, even in the flight levels at 300+ knots ground speed.

When I was flying Falcons, I had an approach controller that kept calling me a Citation...when he finally gave me a freq change, I responded with, "Roger, GROUND CONTROL,...."

He chuckled and apologized. ;)
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Should be B350/ for a King Air and BE35/ for a Bonanza.
 
Both ATC and I both use "Twin Cessna" and that covers all the Cessna piston twins. If they need the type they'll ask... :yes:
 
In the grand scheme of things there really isn't much of a difference when comparing Piper models with each other (outside of a cub or the like). Same with the Cessna family.
 
Twin_Flyer said:
Both ATC and I both use "Twin Cessna" and that covers all the Cessna piston twins. If they need the type they'll ask... :yes:
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They're going to be pretty miffed if I start saying "twin Cessna" for my Arrow :)
 
iamtheari said:
I fly an Arrow. I usually call myself Arrow 58J. One time, a controller responded by calling me Cherokee 58J.
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Technically, for many years the Arrow was part of the Cherokee line. I used to have a 1975 Arrow, and the manual and all documentation said "Cherokee Arrow". If your point is that some controllers ignore the Arrow - yep - happened to me too.
 
Twin_Flyer said:
Both ATC and I both use "Twin Cessna" and that covers all the Cessna piston twins. If they need the type they'll ask... :yes:
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It's rare to hear one call the company 404 a "Titan" as opposed to "Twin Cessna." And most of the time we are getting called out to other traffic if we aren't called "Twin Cessna" we magically gain pressurization and get called a 421. Must be the GTSIO's.
 
Rex Kramer said:
In the grand scheme of things there really isn't much of a difference when comparing Piper models with each other (outside of a cub or the like). Same with the Cessna family.
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If a controller wants to keep calling my 172 a "Skywagon" or "Stationair" or "Centurion" I don't mind (and am a little flattered). But if he/she calls me out as traffic to somebody else, I don't want the other pilot to be looking for the wrong kind of airplane.

Datadriver said:
Technically, for many years the Arrow was part of the Cherokee line. I used to have a 1975 Arrow, and the manual and all documentation said "Cherokee Arrow".
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All PA-28s and PA-32s were "Cherokees" though the 1977 model year -- even the PA-32R-300 had "Cherokee Lance" painted on the cowl. The "Cherokee" part of the name was dropped at the end of 1977 on all models, except on the fixed-gear PA-32, which continued as "Cherokee Six" for 1978. For 1979, its last year, it was just "Piper Six 300".
 
Pilawt said:
If a controller wants to keep calling my 172 a "Skywagon" or "Stationair" or "Centurion" I don't mind (and am a little flattered). But if he/she calls me out as traffic to somebody else, I don't want the other pilot to be looking for the wrong kind of airplane.
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If you're looking from traffic, I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between a 172, 182, Stationair, etc up at altitude. Maybe your eyes are better than mine. All I really care is if the traffic a low wing or high wing or jet or prop. Same thing with Pipers. I probably can't tell the difference between and Arrow, Warrior, Archer, Saratoga, etc. I guess if I looked hard enough for the landing gear I could maybe get a better idea about the plane.
 
I got news for ya folks. Most controllers aren't pilots. Most controllers wouldn't know a PA28 from a RV-7 let alone what they are called, especially this younger generation of controllers. I've even heard one of these kids give traffic as "a Cessna type" and I cringe. All they look at is your speed on the radar to figure out where to sequence you to the pattern. I've been called Cherokee, Piper, Arrow, and November. I don't care as long as it ends in six zero uniform and I'll pay attention.
 
Usually I just let them call me whatever they want. Experimental.. twin cessna... But if someone asks...

"Say type airplane again"

"Globe Swift. Identifier Golf Charlie One. Single engine piston, cruise about 145 knots"
 
I was flying a rental DA-20 for a while from an airport with a tower controller who was known to be very grumpy. I called up for taxi as "Diamond 12345" and he came back with "Diamond STAR 12345 blah blah blah..." (heavy emphasis on the Star). Same thing when he called back to give me a squawk code, and for takeoff. I guess he didn't realize the DA-40 is a Diamond Star, but by God he was going to make me call myself "Diamond Star 12345"...kindof annoying to be more or less verbally berated by ATC when they were in the wrong. I chose not to get into a ****ing match with him, but that was not the first or last time I had a less than pleasant experience with that particular controller.
 
JPH1786 said:
I was flying a rental DA-20 for a while from an airport with a tower controller who was known to be very grumpy. I called up for taxi as "Diamond 12345" and he came back with "Diamond STAR 12345 blah blah blah..." (heavy emphasis on the Star). Same thing when he called back to give me a squawk code, and for takeoff. I guess he didn't realize the DA-40 is a Diamond Star, but by God he was going to make me call myself "Diamond Star 12345"...kindof annoying to be more or less verbally berated by ATC when they were in the wrong. I chose not to get into a ****ing match with him, but that was not the first or last time I had a less than pleasant experience with that particular controller.
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If that happened in the air instead of on the ground, you could have declared an emergency since you were flying a Diamond Star on one engine. Controllers are like every other line of work, there are a few of questionable competence and a few jerks, and knowing who they are and how to handle them is the best way to get through the experience.
 
JPH1786 said:
I was flying a rental DA-20 for a while from an airport with a tower controller who was known to be very grumpy. I called up for taxi as "Diamond 12345" and he came back with "Diamond STAR 12345 blah blah blah..." (heavy emphasis on the Star). Same thing when he called back to give me a squawk code, and for takeoff. I guess he didn't realize the DA-40 is a Diamond Star, but by God he was going to make me call myself "Diamond Star 12345"...kindof annoying to be more or less verbally berated by ATC when they were in the wrong. I chose not to get into a ****ing match with him, but that was not the first or last time I had a less than pleasant experience with that particular controller.
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That controller is wrong if he was trying to enforce type or model for a call sign anyway. Manufacturer's name is authorized in both the AIM and the controller's manual. "Diamond 12345" is completely adequate in ATC communications.
 
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Velocity173 said:
That controller is wrong if he was trying to enforce type or model for a call sign. Manufacturer's name is authorized in both the AIM and the controller's manual. "Diamond 12345" is completely adequate in ATC communications.
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If I ever manufacture airplanes, I am going to do so under the name November and the only model we make will be called November. That way you'll never be wrong if you say (or hear) November 12345.

Also the November November will cost under $150,000 and go 250 knots on 3 gallons per hour of E85 fuel.
 
JPH1786 said:
I was flying a rental DA-20 for a while from an airport with a tower controller who was known to be very grumpy. I called up for taxi as "Diamond 12345" and he came back with "Diamond STAR 12345 blah blah blah..." (heavy emphasis on the Star). Same thing when he called back to give me a squawk code, and for takeoff. I guess he didn't realize the DA-40 is a Diamond Star, but by God he was going to make me call myself "Diamond Star 12345"...kindof annoying to be more or less verbally berated by ATC when they were in the wrong. I chose not to get into a ****ing match with him, but that was not the first or last time I had a less than pleasant experience with that particular controller.
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Every place has one of those. Even if there are no natural grumps there, someone has to fill the roll. Sometimes they rotate, grump of the month so to speak. Yeah that's a joke. That guy mighta been showing off that he knows all about planes and that Diamond makes a few of them.
 
dell30rb said:
Usually I just let them call me whatever they want. Experimental.. twin cessna... But if someone asks...

"Say type airplane again"

"Globe Swift. Identifier Golf Charlie One. Single engine piston, cruise about 145 knots"
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A GS cruises at 145 knots? Thought it was 120 max? Or are you talking about mph?
 
Plenty of 180 / 210 hp Swifts out there that'll do 145 KTAS.
 
Clark1961 said:
I call the 'kota a kota....
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But, do you say this "'kota" silliness on the radio too? Is it really that cool to save one syllable from a word that's already so simple to say? Dakota.... say it with me now... Dakota... it's just so easy to say (and type!) the whole word.

Because, seriously, if you say "Kota" on the radio, no one will have a clue as to what you're talking about.
 
jbDC9 said:
But, do you say this "'kota" silliness on the radio too? Is it really that cool to save one syllable from a word that's already so simple to say? Dakota.... say it with me now... Dakota... it's just so easy to say (and type!) the whole word.

Because, seriously, if you say "Kota" on the radio, no one will have a clue as to what you're talking about.
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Clearly you are mistaken. Kota is shorter than Dakota so Dakota is not easier to type.

Do you often try to defend inane positions on the interwebz? If so you'll fit in jus fine.
 
Clark1961 said:
Clearly you are mistaken. Kota is shorter than Dakota so Dakota is not easier to type.

Do you often try to defend inane positions on the interwebz? If so you'll fit in jus fine.
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'cept now you're gonna have to teach him to say "FrankenKota" ...
 
Sometimes the identifier for my Comanche gets put in as PA28 rather than PA24 . . .

This has resulted in amusing results when I'm cooking along at 175 knots plus with just a moderate tail when and I get asked about the mods to my Cherokee to get it to go fast [slow times obivously]

Or a couple weeks ago I leveling at 5500 and showing about 180 over the ground and the controllers says: "90P, I've obviously got your identifier wrong, say type aircraft?"
 
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