Is "Number 1 for landing" the same as "cleared to land"?

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ScottVal

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Today I was approaching a controlled airport, and several miles out, was told "number 1 for landing." I was on short final and hadn't yet heard the magic words "cleared to land," so I asked if I was cleared to land. The controller politely said yes. But I couldn't help wondering whether "number 1 for landing" implies "cleared to land."
 
The controller is just giving you your place in the que. You are not cleared to land untill you hear the magic words cleared to land.
 
I would have asked, myself.
 
No, if a controller says "number 1 for landing" he is not clearing you to land. He is just giving you your number in line for the runway, he may say "number 2 for landing, traffic is an ERJ on a 2 mile final for the runway" etc. You are not cleared to land until they tell you the magic words "cleared to land".
 
I actually had that exact same thing happen to me when I was on long final (around the middle marker or so). I asked the controller if that meant "cleared to land" and his response was, "No, there is a truck crossing the runway right now and once he is clear of the runway I'll clear you to land." About short final he cleared me to land.
 
Very timely thread. Just got back from a flight where I got "number 1 for landing"while I was on about a 1/2 mile final. Called up an asked if I was cleared to land and the controller said the magic words.
Always ask if you're not sure.
 
Unless I'm missing some published guidance, the lack of a landing clearance should be better defined. In other words, there should be something like "if you cross the threshold without the clearance, execute a go around". The way it stands now is we could skim one foot above the runway down the entire length. If the reason we didn't get a landing clearance was traffic on the runway,... Well you see my point.
 
There is only one way to say "cleared to land". Nothing else substitutes.
 
Unless I hear "cleated to land/option/whatever" I don't consider being cleared. If it gets close, I'll ask "Confirm cleared to/for...." to get the approval. Now, I haven't had it happen yet, but if I were in an emergency and didn't have clearance, then I would most like reiterate the Emergency, with my confirmatory question (I.e., Sentry XX, Emergency, Confirm Cleared to Land Rwy XX?)


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Kritchlow said:
Unless I'm missing some published guidance, the lack of a landing clearance should be better defined. In other words, there should be something like "if you cross the threshold without the clearance, execute a go around". The way it stands now is we could skim one foot above the runway down the entire length. If the reason we didn't get a landing clearance was traffic on the runway,... Well you see my point.
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Only if you are cleared for a low pass or cleared for the option.
 
geneseib said:
Only if you are cleared for a low pass or cleared for the option.
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Than what is one expected to do if there is no landing clearance? Please cite the reference.
 
Kritchlow said:
Than what is one expected to do if there is no landing clearance? Please cite the reference.
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Let me rephrase... Where does it say we can't skim the runway? Where does it say something to the effect of "go around prior to crossing the threshold"?
 
Like others have said, it does not mean you have landing clearance.
 
I think a certain amount of "reasonableness" is implied, i.e., if you don't get clearance to land, you do a go around. A normal go around.
 
ScottVal said:
I think a certain amount of "reasonableness" is implied, i.e., if you don't get clearance to land, you do a go around. A normal go around.
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Yup.. That's a good practice.

That said, I still wish it was spelled out somewhere. I have scoured rate AIM to no avail.
 
bit of thread creep, but it's the same for "cleared into the class B". If in doubt, ask and get those words on tape.
 
Witmo said:
How about "Cleared for the option?" :wink2:
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If I requested a standard landing clearance and got "cleared for the option" I would request clarification, because they may have confused me with another plane that requested a T&G or option.
 
TCABM said:
Now, I haven't had it happen yet, but if I were in an emergency and didn't have clearance, then I would most like reiterate the Emergency, with my confirmatory question (I.e., Sentry XX, Emergency, Confirm Cleared to Land Rwy XX?)


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If you have declared, it doesn't really matter. Your coming in and that's that. It's the controllers problem to clear the field. One way or another, you are going to exchange airspeed for heat and if you have enough of that airspeed, it will be on that airport.
 
I would have asked for the magic words as well.
 
Unit74 said:
If you have declared, it doesn't really matter. Your coming in and that's that. It's the controllers problem to clear the field. One way or another, you are going to exchange airspeed for heat and if you have enough of that airspeed, it will be on that airport.
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I haven't always declared initially with my terminal control facility. Most of the time it's been passed in the handoff, and I check in with the next agency as Sentry XX, emergency so, it shouldn't be an issue. But again, I've never experienced anything other than cleared to land under those conditions.


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It's the in-flight version of 'line up and wait'! But it's not a clearance to land.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
There is only one way to say "cleared to land". Nothing else substitutes.
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It sometimes amazes me how many people are constantly looking for substitutes to imply such a simple, "clear" word.

ATC: Oh, you want a pop up IFR into San Jose? Cool!
Pilot (to himself): Hmm. "Cool!" That must mean I have my clearance!
 
When possible, try to avoid asking questions as the inflections which help identify a question don't also come across well over the radio and can lead to confusion. Here are a couple of alternative ways to verify the landing clearance.

If you aren't sure if you received the clearance, or were confused by the wording of the instruction:

"[callsign], Confirm landing clearance"

If you have not received your landing clearance and are approaching short final:

"[callsign], Request landing clearance"

Either option is short, clear, and can be adapted to many different circumstances.

The "Confirm" phraseology works well anytime you are unsure that you understood an instruction. Read back what you think you heard and add "confirm" i.e. "Confirm taxi via Alpha and Charlie, hold short of Juliet, [Callsign]"
 
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Jeff Oslick said:
If I requested a standard landing clearance and got "cleared for the option" I would request clarification, because they may have confused me with another plane that requested a T&G or option.
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If you're confused about any clearance, the correct action is to ask for clarification. Having said this, you should know that the option includes a full stop landing if desired and asking what it means reflects on your level of knowledge, not the controller's. In this particular instance, cleared the option vs cleared to land, the controller was perfectly correct in issuing a cleared for the option call and any pilot would be correct in making a full stop landing without further clarification.
 
Witmo said:
If you're confused about any clearance, the correct action is to ask for clarification. Having said this, you should know that the option includes a full stop landing if desired and asking what it means reflects on your level of knowledge, not the controller's. In this particular instance, cleared the option vs cleared to land, the controller was perfectly correct in issuing a cleared for the option call and any pilot would be correct in making a full stop landing without further clarification.
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True, but I think Jeff has a valid point. It would be unusual for the tower to clear an airplane for the option out of the blue, unless he was doing pattern work or a known training flight.

Jeff's technique may just clear up some confusion.
 
Being number one just means nobody is ahead of you (for landing). Landing clearance likely can be withheld due to departures (or other matters that encumber the runway).
 
Conversely, when flying low and slow into not busy airports, I've been cleared to land so far out that I've reconfirmed the clearance on short final.
 
Lindberg said:
Conversely, when flying low and slow into not busy airports, I've been cleared to land so far out that I've reconfirmed the clearance on short final.
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Funny..... Had that happen a coupe times too. I thought maybe they mixed up a call sign or something. I'm like, uh, you know I'm 20 miles out and 110kts, right?:rofl: I didn't say that to them, but was thinking it.
 
Unit74 said:
Funny..... Had that happen a coupe times too. I thought maybe they mixed up a call sign or something. I'm like, uh, you know I'm 20 miles out and 110kts, right?:rofl: I didn't say that to them, but was thinking it.
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In my case, it was my night dual cross country as a student pilot in a Tomahawk and cleared to land 12 miles out by Bradley Approach into the Class C (well, ARSA back then) KBDL
 
My CFI would take students into a class C, then a Bravo airport on the next flight. The C was meant as prep for the B.

I contacted Wichita (ICT) approach 20 miles out like the sectional says, they told me to contact tower, who immediately cleared me to land while still about 20 miles out. Class C is easy!
 
ahkahn said:
I actually had that exact same thing happen to me when I was on long final (around the middle marker or so). I asked the controller if that meant "cleared to land" and his response was, "No, there is a truck crossing the runway right now and once he is clear of the runway I'll clear you to land." About short final he cleared me to land.
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@92Echo. Perhaps you mean the Outer Marker? :)
 
Kritchlow said:
Unless I'm missing some published guidance, the lack of a landing clearance should be better defined. In other words, there should be something like "if you cross the threshold without the clearance, execute a go around". The way it stands now is we could skim one foot above the runway down the entire length. If the reason we didn't get a landing clearance was traffic on the runway,... Well you see my point.
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Yeah. I guess we could. Probably a matter of time before someone does and then claims that he did nothing wrong because nothing says he couldn't. Then there will be one more page added to the thousands pages of rules, regulations, AC's etc etc that already exist.
 
Nope, probably someone still on the runway, keep it coming and you'll get cleared when they clear.
 
ScottVal said:
Today I was approaching a controlled airport, and several miles out, was told "number 1 for landing." I was on short final and hadn't yet heard the magic words "cleared to land," so I asked if I was cleared to land. The controller politely said yes. But I couldn't help wondering whether "number 1 for landing" implies "cleared to land."
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NO.

the rest of this text is merely here for my amusement, to abide by POA's five character minimum rule...as you were.... :)
 
ScottVal said:
Today I was approaching a controlled airport, and several miles out, was told "number 1 for landing." I was on short final and hadn't yet heard the magic words "cleared to land," so I asked if I was cleared to land. The controller politely said yes. But I couldn't help wondering whether "number 1 for landing" implies "cleared to land."
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You did right to ask. When in doubt, Clarify!
 
Lindberg said:
Conversely, when flying low and slow into not busy airports, I've been cleared to land so far out that I've reconfirmed the clearance on short final.
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I once got cleared to land at KRNO (class C) about 18 miles out in a 172. I radioed back saying "Nxxxx, cleared to land 16L... You know we're not going to be there for a while, right?" :D
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. I guess we could. Probably a matter of time before someone does and then claims that he did nothing wrong because nothing says he couldn't. Then there will be one more page added to the thousands pages of rules, regulations, AC's etc etc that already exist.
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Prediction: the FAA, NTSB and, if it gets that far, the courts, will, in sequence, reject the pilot's claim in less than a paragraph and the page will never be added.
 
Kritchlow said:
Yup.. That's a good practice.

That said, I still wish it was spelled out somewhere. I have scoured rate AIM to no avail.
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Why do wish it were "spelled out somewhere?" You think a reg is needed to specifically prohibit a pilot from staying 1' above the runway, weaving around the airplane that hasn't quite cleared the runway or taking out the deer's antlers? And don't forget the slalom while staying at that altitude on crosswind, downwind, base and final!

Does every single ridiculous scenario need to be dealt with by adding a reg or guidance? Exactly how long and complex would you like the FAR and AIM to be?
 
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