Is going for the Gold Seal worth it?

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Z06_Mir

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CFIs who have their Gold Seal, is it worth it? I'm not a ground instructor... but if there was some sort of benefit I would get my AGI before I get the 8/10. My husband and I own a flight school, so no independent insurance to deal with. Having my AGI won't make me a better CFI, so what are the benefits of taking it to become a Gold Seal? I don't have too many checkrides to sign off before I get to that number, so I'm really curious if I should just spend the $165 and take it.
 
I have only heard (read) one person mention that they are a gold seal instructor and that person is on this board.
 
Z06_Mir said:
CFIs who have their Gold Seal, is it worth it? I'm not a ground instructor... but if there was some sort of benefit I would get my AGI before I get the 8/10. My husband and I own a flight school, so no independent insurance to deal with. Having my AGI won't make me a better CFI, so what are the benefits of taking it to become a Gold Seal? I don't have too many checkrides to sign off before I get to that number, so I'm really curious if I should just spend the $165 and take it.
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Other benefits...
~ AGI doesn't expire
~ AGIs don't have the same record-keeping requirements as cFIs
 
denverpilot said:
Marketing.
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I have thousands of hours instructing and don't have a Gold Seal. I guess there are requirements, forget them now, but all I cared about was training a safe pilot. I didn't feel I needed anything beyond my plain old CFI certificate to do so. So, yeah, like Nate said, marketing and probably prestige I guess, if that's your thing.
 
Do you think it would give you a leg up at KRAP?
 
The typical student pilot would have no idea what a gold seal means and what it takes to get it. I guess the word "gold" might attract some folks to believe that it is better than others. Not necessarily true.
 
I've seen it used on a resume...don't know whether it factored in or not, but he got the airport manager job.
 
SkyDog58 said:
The typical student pilot would have no idea what a gold seal means and what it takes to get it. I guess the word "gold" might attract some folks to believe that it is better than others. Not necessarily true.
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Yes, for me as a recent former student, I didn't know what Gold Seal was until my instructor told me he was trying for Gold Seal. Probably does not make any difference to most students looking for a CFI.
 
dmspilot said:
Other benefits...
~ AGI doesn't expire
~ AGIs don't have the same record-keeping requirements as cFIs
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Really? I thought it was actually a little stricter for ground instructors (whether agi, igi, or bgi). I think You had to submit a letter/report showing current activity as a ground instructor every 12 months.
I don't have the regs in front of me right now, but I know it's under the 'ground instructors' portion in part 61.

I'll take the agi once I get closer to my cfi checkride, figure it'll be a good way to see how prepared I really am on some of the knowledge.
 
I've been a CFI (with all kinds or letters behind it) since 1975. I won't bloviate over the numbers but they're pretty decent. Never even considered a Gold Seal.

I flew with a Gold Seal CFI a few years back for a flight review. He was an arrogant, *rick, that thought quite highly of himself.

Funny part was he had about 20% of the hours I had at the time.

I have more respect for an instructor that has actually done more than taught students. I think some corporate or charter time is more important than a gold seal. You know, real world experience.
 
saddletramp said:
I have more respect for an instructor that has actually done more than taught students. I think some corporate or charter time is more important than a gold seal. You know, real world experience.
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I'll never have that. Oh well. ;)
 
saddletramp said:
That doesn't mean you can't be a good instructor. From reading your posts...I'm sure you are quite competent.
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Hahaha. I'm a total crap show right now. Haven't flown in a month.

This whole "going to work" and "making money" thing is way overrated.

But they're crazy enough to pay me to poke at a keyboard like George Jetson for a living, and it pays a lot better than flying.

(Probably one of the main reasons it's a PITA to find good instructors.)

I may have even seriously broken the corporate email system this afternoon. We'll see on Monday.

I need to go back to the airport... soon. Maybe I'll play hooky on Monday and go talk to my CFI about this messed up schedule and commiserate with him about the weather. :)

"Oh... they're saying email stuff isn't working on Slack.. that doesn't look good..."
 
I have the Gold Seal. I guess I don't really mention it. It's on my website along with my other credentials because "why not," but yeah, it doesn't mean much I suppose.
 
mscard88 said:
I have thousands of hours instructing and don't have a Gold Seal. I guess there are requirements, forget them now, but all I cared about was training a safe pilot. I didn't feel I needed anything beyond my plain old CFI certificate to do so. So, yeah, like Nate said, marketing and probably prestige I guess, if that's your thing.
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Agreed
 
I have it in my sig and on my company instructor bio, as do other instructors with whom I currently work or have worked in the past. I support the idea of instructors striving to become gold seal instructors. It's like any other achievement-based credential in other professions. If you need a lawyer, doctor, A&P mechanic, dentist, lawn guy, veterinarian, etc. you want a professional who is known for good work. One way -- with emphasis on one -- you can identify CFIs who do generally good work is by looking for gold seal instructors.

All the gold seal does is provide recognition of a CFI's first-time checkride pass rate. If you have the choice between a CFI who achieves 80% or 20%, you should probably go with the guy who has 80%. If you're a good instructor who teaches a decent number of people each year, earning a gold seal rating is part of the course of normal business for you. If you're a part-timer who doesn't meet the 24 calendar month threshold of 10 checkride signoffs, 8 of whom pass on their first checkride attempt, then you don't get a gold seal. That doesn't mean the part-timer is a bad instructor.

Likewise there is nothing wrong with an instructor including a gold seal on his credentials. It implies nothing about his personality or character. Gold seal instructors are not monolithic groups of instructors who see themselves in any special way. They have simply earned an FAA credential, done the paperwork to get it, and now have it.

Arguments I've seen in PoA against gold seal instructors:
  1. He taught at a pilot mill and sent all his students to in-house or mill-friendly DPEs.
    Happens. Not applicable to the majority.

  2. He is buddies with one DPE who always passes their students.
    See #1.
  3. I flew with one who was a *rick and had 20% of the total time I had.
    See #1.
 
Is anyone anti-Gold Seal? I'm certainly not. It obviously suggests positive attributes, and has no negative connotations I can think of.

But I suspect any reasonably busy, reasonably competent flight instructor ought to be capable of earning the Gold Seal. I wouldn't differentiate between two good CFIs on that basis alone. It's sort of like a Boy Scout merit badge. Almost anyone can get it if they put a little sweat into it.
 
I don't think a gold seal means much but I don't see how it could be seen as a negative.

Most of the students I've encountered have reminded me of people who join a gym on January 1st. It's a fleeting activity for them and they drop out sooner or later. So I have lots of instruction time but only have sent a few to checkrides.

The 10 students and 80% pass rate is fine I guess, but why does there have to be a time limit?
 
Just found out today my CFI just got his Gold seal. Not sure it makes much difference, personally I think he was an excellent instructor even before he mentioned he got his. The only reason he mentioned it is from what I gather Sporty's charges a wee bit more because he is a Gold Seal Instructor. I don't mind paying a little more since I get along with him very well and think he is an excellent instructor.
 
dmspilot said:
The 10 students and 80% pass rate is fine I guess, but why does there have to be a time limit?
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The funnier one is the allowance for a DPE to earn it by administering tests. LOL... do your job in most areas, and it is a guarantee.

I can't think of a DPE who can't maintain 20 rides a year. A ride less than every other week isn't going to be hard for an active DPE.

They had to draw a line somewhere. It's pretty arbitrary.

I'm starting out too old to ever have any students earn a Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award either, but that would feel pretty good.

Well, unless I'm about 95 years old and with it enough to even notice. LOL. If I don't hurry up and get some stuff done, make that 96. Haha.
 
IMO, a Gold Seal is great if you're planning an instructing career, which has been expressed. Yes it's marketing, but thats your business!!!

For those looking to move to the airlines, don't waste your time.
 
dmspilot said:
I don't think a gold seal means much but I don't see how it could be seen as a negative.

Most of the students I've encountered have reminded me of people who join a gym on January 1st. It's a fleeting activity for them and they drop out sooner or later. So I have lots of instruction time but only have sent a few to checkrides.

The 10 students and 80% pass rate is fine I guess, but why does there have to be a time limit?
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Hit the nail on the head with the gym membership comparison. One of my students asked me today what percentage of intro flights I turn into students and he was really shocked at the low number... and he was especially shocked at the number that drop just before they solo (where he is)

I just didn't see if maybe I was missing some sort of great benefit of being Gold Seal that I didn't know about. A super secret discount club or something. I am most likely a career CFI, even if I don't stick to primarily primary students (ha!) forever.
 
Harold Rutila said:
I have it in my sig and on my company instructor bio, as do other instructors with whom I currently work or have worked in the past. I support the idea of instructors striving to become gold seal instructors. It's like any other achievement-based credential in other professions. If you need a lawyer, doctor, A&P mechanic, dentist, lawn guy, veterinarian, etc. you want a professional who is known for good work. One way -- with emphasis on one -- you can identify CFIs who do generally good work is by looking for gold seal instructors.

All the gold seal does is provide recognition of a CFI's first-time checkride pass rate. If you have the choice between a CFI who achieves 80% or 20%, you should probably go with the guy who has 80%. If you're a good instructor who teaches a decent number of people each year, earning a gold seal rating is part of the course of normal business for you. If you're a part-timer who doesn't meet the 24 calendar month threshold of 10 checkride signoffs, 8 of whom pass on their first checkride attempt, then you don't get a gold seal. That doesn't mean the part-timer is a bad instructor.

Likewise there is nothing wrong with an instructor including a gold seal on his credentials. It implies nothing about his personality or character. Gold seal instructors are not monolithic groups of instructors who see themselves in any special way. They have simply earned an FAA credential, done the paperwork to get it, and now have it.

Arguments I've seen in PoA against gold seal instructors:
  1. He taught at a pilot mill and sent all his students to in-house or mill-friendly DPEs.
    Happens. Not applicable to the majority.

  2. He is buddies with one DPE who always passes their students.
    See #1.
  3. I flew with one who was a *rick and had 20% of the total time I had.
    See #1.
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Don't forget #4...he got his Gold Seal 20 years ago...is he any good now?
 
denverpilot said:
You don't have to get the airplanes to listen to you. Haha.

You should see the fail rate on initial CFI. :)
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It's actually not bad at all. The 2015 statistics show 68.6% approved by DPEs and 73.1% by Inspectors. The whole 70% of people fail their initial CFI is a myth. It may be true at their own FSDO but the statistics actually show a decent pass rate.
 
jordane93 said:
It's actually not bad at all. The 2015 statistics show 68.6% approved by DPEs and 73.1% by Inspectors. The whole 70% of people fail their initial CFI is a myth. It may be true at their own FSDO but the statistics actually show a decent pass rate.
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Where does one find those statistics? Faa.gov?
 
jordane93 said:
It's actually not bad at all. The 2015 statistics show 68.6% approved by DPEs and 73.1% by Inspectors. The whole 70% of people fail their initial CFI is a myth.
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To my knowledge the statistics do not distinguish between first attempts and retakes. Therefore, you cannot draw that conclusion.
 
dmspilot said:
To my knowledge the statistics do not distinguish between first attempts and retakes. Therefore, you cannot draw that conclusion.
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I've always assumed it was first time. I may call the FAA as I'm genuinely curious about the first time pass rate. I don't think 70% fail the first time.
 
From what I read, you need only to take the AGI, so im assuming you have many passed checkrides already. So might as well do it.

As for new CFI's, I dont think a CFI should TRY to get gold seal, I think it should just happen.
Students are people, not things. "Trying" may affect safety.
just my opinion.
 
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