Is General Aviation Dying in the USA?

[StevieTimes]

On this island, right now, they are getting $200 a day...for a rental GOLF CART.

No, really!

For that, I could fly you to Galveston...and back. It's insane.

Flying, when compared to that, is pretty reasonable.

Of course, for the well-heeled, GA will probably never 'die' - but for the average middle class aspirant, it's much less attainable than not so long ago.

I admit that aviation has never been cheap, but now, in relation to what you get, the costs are just insane. Old technology, slow speeds, massive inconvenience.

GA is just not what it should be in the year 2015.

The average dude who rents has a different reality than $200 for a 146 nm round trip (Port Aransas to Galveston). You're right in the comparison of the fun of a plane to the golf cart though.

For me though, SkyVector says at 110 knots it would take 1 hour, 20 minutes one way. With taxi, climb, approach, taxi, let's call it (an optimistic) 1 hour, 30 minutes on the hobbs (if we stop at Galveston, we're doing runups both ways).

So at $130/hour for a 172, * 3 hours, = $390, plus tax. That's just to travel to Galveston and back! We're not entertained (well, as the pilot, I am), we're just getting there faster with better scenery.

Or, take that money, drive to Galveston, get a nice hotel, and go out for dinner and drinks. To do that, a guy doesn't have to stay current, they don't have to stay proficient, they just have to get in the car and go eat and drink and sleep. Ask your significant other if they want to spend $400 on dinner, drinks, and a hotel, or to go flying with you. Try the boat deal next. Maybe it's just my fam, but flying wouldn't be the first thing on their list to spend that on. We could probably spend three days at the Dells for that one trip.

Someone will mention clubs; OK, I'll take a local one. It's only $95/month for dues. Then it's $87/hour (let's call it 90 for easy math) for a 172. That 3 hour flight comes out to about $365. We saved about $25. Granted, if I fly more this month, it's more value to me... but I still need that kind of cash lying around wanting to be spent on just me. Another 3 hours to get "more value" will cost another $261, which puts us to about $626 in flying fees for the month. The family would vote for the monthly Dells vacation.

I love flying... I'm just saying, the kind I like (172 or better) isn't exactly cheap, and there is some danger involved (leaving the dock on a pontoon is less stressful than the first 1,000 feet of altitude). Flying is fun for the pilot, good scenery, and good for getting places faster. It can be fun for the passengers, I have found a few of them, but my "regular" people are lukewarm about it.

 

[beestforwardspeed]

The only place that I could see where it would make more sense to own a boat vs an airplane would be in the Bahamas (or Caribbean) where you have some of the best sandbars and beaches anywhere on the planet!

Other than that, a plane makes much more sense.

Again, why would it make sense to own a toy that is just as expensive (if not more) than a lot of planes, that you can only use comfortably 4 or 5 months of the year in most of the USA??

Nothing at all against boats..........heck I had a FANTASTIC time on them in the Bahamas last summer, but anywhere other than there (or similar tropical climate) it makes no sense.

 

[Henning]

The only place that I could see where it would make more sense to own a boat vs an airplane would be in the Bahamas (or Caribbean) where you have some of the best sandbars and beaches anywhere on the planet!

Other than that, a plane makes much more sense.

Again, why would it make sense to own a toy that is just as expensive (if not more) than a lot of planes, that you can only use comfortably 4 or 5 months of the year in most of the USA??

Nothing at all against boats..........heck I had a FANTASTIC time on them in the Bahamas last summer, but anywhere other than there (or similar tropical climate) it makes no sense.

Tens of Millions of people disagree with you, although there's a good number of pilots who use their plane to get to their boat.

 

[Jay Honeck]

The only place that I could see where it would make more sense to own a boat vs an airplane would be in the Bahamas (or Caribbean) where you have some of the best sandbars and beaches anywhere on the planet!

Other than that, a plane makes much more sense.

Again, why would it make sense to own a toy that is just as expensive (if not more) than a lot of planes, that you can only use comfortably 4 or 5 months of the year in most of the USA??

Nothing at all against boats..........heck I had a FANTASTIC time on them in the Bahamas last summer, but anywhere other than there (or similar tropical climate) it makes no sense.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winnah!

I grew up on the shores of Lake Michigan, and I currently live on an island In the Gulf of Mexico. Despite this, I have NEVER been able to justify owning a boat. They are expensive, fun for about an hour, useless toys.

I *have* however, been able to justify several airplanes, in which I have traveled the United States from coast to coast, Canada to Mexico, and all points in between.

Why have tens of millions purchased a boat, while so relatively few have purchased airplanes?

1. Training. It's hard to learn to fly. (Note: It is not "hard to fly".)

2. Marketing. Our litigious society has completely shut down efforts to market flying to the general public, lest someone be "misled" into thinking they can fly anywhere, anytime. It's for the children, you know.

3. Pilots themselves. I know too many who wear the pilot thing like a red badge of courage, making it seem like the hardest, bravest thing anyone has ever done. This is not a good way to attract new blood, in the XBox age.

Take ten random people off the street, and ask them "How does one become an airplane pilot?". I will bet you that 9 out of 10 answer incorrectly, or not at all.

THAT is our biggest problem.

 

[SoonerAviator]

The only place that I could see where it would make more sense to own a boat vs an airplane would be in the Bahamas (or Caribbean) where you have some of the best sandbars and beaches anywhere on the planet!

Other than that, a plane makes much more sense.

Well, millions of fishermen and watersports enthusiasts would disagree with you. My boat doesn't require an annual inspection, and I can work on it myself. We paid $7K for it back in the early 90's and it's value hasn't really dropped too much from today. We run from May to October, generally, but have no problems taking it out later than that if we just wanted to cruise around. The fishing rig gets used all year round because it doesn't really require any winterization. Both boats acquisition costs combined are cheaper than any single operable certified aircraft outside of an ultralight. I can go from lake to lake, or put in at the local port and travel all the way to the GoM from Tulsa, OK.

Storage/slip rental is considerably cheaper for the boat as well, since I can keep them at home.

 

[Henning]

I have lived on boats for more years of my life than not. Boats provide not only a means to a destination, but accommodation when you get there, same for RVs. Just because you think a plane is a better use of your money does not mean that others should, or will feel the same about it. A plane provides only transportation to the place where the family has fun, the boat provides the platform from which they have fun as well. Tens of millions of people disagree with your analysis, does that make all of them wrong?

 

[FormerHangie]

The only place that I could see where it would make more sense to own a boat vs an airplane would be in the Bahamas (or Caribbean) where you have some of the best sandbars and beaches anywhere on the planet!

Other than that, a plane makes much more sense.

Again, why would it make sense to own a toy that is just as expensive (if not more) than a lot of planes, that you can only use comfortably 4 or 5 months of the year in most of the USA??

Nothing at all against boats..........heck I had a FANTASTIC time on them in the Bahamas last summer, but anywhere other than there (or similar tropical climate) it makes no sense.

I suppose the cost comparison depends on what kind of boat you are looking at. I've been considering getting us a boat, and I've seen some very nice late model (2012-2013) 21 foot bowriders available in the upper 20's. Airplane wise, I an finding that will buy a 40 year old Cherokee 140 in so-so condition. The boat seats six in comfort, can take nine in a pinch. The airplane seats two in comfort, four in a pinch. I have nowhere to keep the boat at my house, and since my wife will occasionally be using it without me, we'll be putting it in indoor dry stack storage, which is essentially valet boating, and that costs about $2700 per year for that boat. Hangarage of the airplane would run about $4800 per year. Because of the nature of the boating we do, we've found that when renting, a similar boat uses about 3 gallons an hour, since most of the time when we're moving we're going 18-22 mph, and some of the time is spent stopped, so even buying expensive marina gas, we're looking at $14 per hour. The airplane will be needing avgas since I have no way of transporting mogas, so that will be $35 - 40 per hour. The boat will require an annual oil change, and an occasional repair, say $500 per year. The airplane will require an annual inspection, plus whatever's needed to pass that annual, plus oil changes, tires, etc, so shall we allow a minimum of $2000 per year, assuming nothing significant goes wrong. On the capital cost side of things, the boat will depreciate, but will probably not require any major engine work during the period of time that I'll own it. The airplane may not depreciate, but I'll need to allow for engine and prop overhaul, and eventual paint and interior refurbishment, let's call that a wash. Insurance on the boat is $300 per year, I'd assume the airplane will be at least $1000. I'd have to pay personal property tax on either, their values are about same, taxes would be similar amounts.

One last expense: the boat is the entertainment. As other have mentioned, everyone likes to go out on the boat, the only way to get the rest of the family on the airplane is to go somewhere. There aren't any meaningful day trips for us around here, we'd have to go away for the weekend, so each time we did that, that's two nights in a hotel, plus ground transportation, meals, and things to do while we're at the destination. Say we did that five times a year at $800 each, there's another $4000.

I've run the figures on both airplane ownership and boat ownership, the airplane is at least twice as expensive for the same level of use, excluding any travel expenses, and excluding any unexpected major repairs, which are much more likely on a 40 year old plane that would cost $300,000 if it were new versus a three year old boat that was $40,000 when it was new.

 

[Henning]

No, the engine overhaul on your 21' bow rider will be under $4000, nowhere close to a wash.

 

[WhiskeyPapa]

Owning a plane is not any kind of economy, IMO. The only rational justification I can see is the freedom it provides to go where you want, when you want, without having to worry about club/FBO rules, daily minimums, or whether someone else has the plane scheduled when you want to use it.

+1 Freedom & love of travel.

 

[jesse]

The only place that I could see where it would make more sense to own a boat vs an airplane would be in the Bahamas (or Caribbean) where you have some of the best sandbars and beaches anywhere on the planet!

Other than that, a plane makes much more sense.

Again, why would it make sense to own a toy that is just as expensive (if not more) than a lot of planes, that you can only use comfortably 4 or 5 months of the year in most of the USA??

Nothing at all against boats..........heck I had a FANTASTIC time on them in the Bahamas last summer, but anywhere other than there (or similar tropical climate) it makes no sense.

I paid less than a thousand dollars for my boat, and 5 people can have a hell of a good time on it on a nice day.

In my area, boats are somewhat popular, with a large selection of them at the lake every day. Of those boats, I'd estimate less than 10% of them are worth more than $5,000.

Probably less than 1% of the boats I see are worth what a 30 year old Cessna 172 is worth.

So, at least in my area, I don't think boats are stealing pilots from aviation. Mostly pilots are limited because flight schools don't market right and a large portion of the population can't afford it.

 

[FormerHangie]

I paid less than a thousand dollars for my boat, and 5 people can have a hell of a good time on it on a nice day.

In my area, boats are somewhat popular, with a large selection of them at the lake every day. Of those boats, I'd estimate less than 10% of them are worth more than $5,000.

Probably less than 1% of the boats I see are worth what a 30 year old Cessna 172 is worth.

So, at least in my area, I don't think boats are stealing pilots from aviation. Mostly pilots are limited because flight schools don't market right and a large portion of the population can't afford it.

I will add one more condition: Most people aren't interested. I do believe that if you invited 100 random people to a presentation on what it took to learn to fly, you'd be lucky if three took you up on it. There are typically two groups of people who will learn to fly: those that get a great amount of enjoyment out of being aloft, and those who have an interest in aviation and also have the need or wart to travel regionally on a regular basis. I'm sure you've noticed that only about a third of those who earn a student pilot's license go on to get their private ticket, and many of those who get the private drop out before logging 100 hours. Of all the students who come to you, what percent ultimately wind up flying 100 hours? Even among those who have demonstrated enough interest by taking a lesson, most drop out and don't become lifelong pilots.

 

[jesse]

I will add one more condition: Most people aren't interested. I do believe that if you invited 100 random people to a presentation on what it took to learn to fly, you'd be lucky if three took you up on it. There are typically two groups of people who will learn to fly: those that get a great amount of enjoyment out of being aloft, and those who have an interest in aviation and also have the need or wart to travel regionally on a regular basis. I'm sure you've noticed that only about a third of those who earn a student pilot's license go on to get their private ticket, and many of those who get the private drop out before logging 100 hours. Of all the students who come to you, what percent ultimately wind up flying 100 hours? Even among those who have demonstrated enough interest by taking a lesson, most drop out and don't become lifelong pilots.

I would probably say 35% of the people I do discovery flights with make it to 100 hours. About 80% of the people that make it to 5 hours of training with me will make it to 100 hours total time.

 

[JCranford]

Of course, for the well-heeled, GA will probably never 'die' - but for the average middle class aspirant, it's much less attainable than not so long ago.

Bingo! The problem with GA and the 'average' American is that it is not a realistic goal. Cost investment in time and money is too high for those with 2.3 kids, two car payments, mortgage, student loans, boat payment, et al.

Then factor in that most of GA is dominated by know-it-all people with a lot of spare cash and the allure fades quickly for the masses. The guy who first introduced me to aviation in any meaningful way was an MD with two T-6's. Not exactly your average Joe, pinching pennies to afford a 150.

Were it not for the fact that I DONT have the things in the first paragraph I'm not sure I would have started flying again.

 

[Silvaire]

I'm going with the general lack of interest. People do all kinds of expensive and totally impractical things so it's not the money nor the impracticality that keeps people out of GA. I've been flying for over 45 years and I've seen ups and downs, what I see today really isn't as bad as say 1980 - 85 in my view. Furthermore I don't pine for crowded sky's or patterns, there are still plenty of old codger enthusiasts like me to fill up the spots at local fly-ins.

 

[EdFred]

Biggest problem. People today are all about the now. You can do a weekend motorcycle course and have an endorsement on Monday. You can run a boat with nothing more than drivers license. Training? Study? Why would I want to subject myself to that.

I bet if it were half the cost, or even 1/3 the cost, millenials and the next generation would still be uninterested as a whole.

 

[ralarcon]

Biggest problem. People today are all about the now. You can do a weekend motorcycle course and have an endorsement on Monday. You can run a boat with nothing more than drivers license. Training? Study? Why would I want to subject myself to that.

I bet if it were half the cost, or even 1/3 the cost, millenials and the next generation would still be uninterested as a whole.

, Dying is perhaps a strong word, in progressive "Decline", most certainly. User fees , would certainly all but kill it.

Cheers

 

[Henning]

Look, there has never been more than a small fraction of people who want to fly regardless cost, and regardless cost, that small fraction finds a way to fly. If there were a social aspect to aviation it would be more popular, but even that would end up as a sausage fest and decline quickly as the male/female ratio of people interested is about 100:1 or better.

 

[mtuomi]

I got my license 2 years and 200 hours ago, and so far I've used my privileges in 14 countries and 14 US states. GA has given me utility nothing else can even get close to.
My longer trips have always been cheaper to do in GA than any other method of transportation.

Having aviation-positive wife and no kids helps too.

 

[jhausch]

Regarding the Boat v RV v Airplane discussion...

Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLKNPOSpMpY

 

[noobJohn]

When these discussions come up I'm always amazed at the number of folks who say cost isn't a factor. I guess that points on the income bracket most pilots are in. Cost is the #1 factor that limits my hours/year since getting my license.

 

[Bill]

Regarding the Boat v RV v Airplane discussion...

Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLKNPOSpMpY

Wow, that is one of the coolest airplanes I've ever seen! Oh to hit the lottery, have one build, grab a few close friends, and go to the islands in that thing! What a life that would be!

 

[Henning]

Regarding the Boat v RV v Airplane discussion...

Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLKNPOSpMpY

There's also a Mallard around that is set up as a nice RV.

 

[Henning]

When these discussions come up I'm always amazed at the number of folks who say cost isn't a factor. I guess that points on the income bracket most pilots are in. Cost is the #1 factor that limits my hours/year since getting my license.

If you want to really enjoy GA and not stress about the costs, you're likely making more than $70k, if you have a family, over $100k.

 

[narchee]

If you want to really enjoy GA and not stress about the costs, you're likely making more than $70k, if you have a family, over $100k.

If you have a family and making $100k? You're not going to enjoy GA and not stress about the costs. Good luck not getting divorced either!

 

[Henning]

If you have a family and making $100k? You're not going to enjoy GA and not stress about the costs. Good luck not getting divorced either!

Depends where you live and what level of flying, I'm giving minimums.

 

[rocketflyer84]

When these discussions come up I'm always amazed at the number of folks who say cost isn't a factor. I guess that points on the income bracket most pilots are in. Cost is the #1 factor that limits my hours/year since getting my license.

It can certainly be a big factor... I think what a lot of people mean though when they say this is that it's not like there aren't enough people out there with the means to fly. More often it seems what they lack is commitment and dedication towards a long term effort... something that's become a bit of a rarity in today's me me me now now now culture.

That said, I think the 'millennials' may end up surprising us a bit here. While a good chunk of this generation go screwed quite badly by the great recession and thus $$$ is a big factor at the moment, despite the stereotypes many in this generation are the high achiever types that can remain dedicated to things long term. Also, increasingly millennials have quite a big affinity for doing things old school... fancy technology and computers often don't impress them as much as older technology (mechanical watches for example have made a resurgence in part because of millennial thinking it was 'cool' to have something that's not electronic on their wrist). Similarly I could see general aviation getting a big lift from this generation. Time will tell.

 

[noobJohn]

Yup.... I was going to say Henning's numbers need to double but then we're just arguing details.

If you have a family and making $100k? You're not going to enjoy GA and not stress about the costs. Good luck not getting divorced either!

 

[FastEddieB]

As a data point, I just composed the following for a thread on owning vs. renting:

In 2014, here's what I spent on my Sky Arrow:

Hangar: $3,000
Insurance: $961
Hangar electric: $287
Hangar improvements: $22.62
MOGAS: $344.55
AVGAS: $78.43
Maintenance: $2,454.24*
Charts/databases: $510.74
Supplies/other: $30.66

TOTAL: $7,689.24
Hours flown: 25.2
Cost per hour: $305 (OUCH!)

Again, if I flew more, the fixed costs would play a much smaller role. I've had years that were much lower, but still in excess of $100/hour.

And my plane is paid for, so no finance charges. And depreciation and opportunity cost is not in there - if they were it would be even more depressing.

Some of the "Charts/databases" would be present even if I rented, so not sure how much of that is valid as an ownership cost.

Still, even at 100 hours a year, just hangar and insurance would account for about $40 an hour** before a drop of fuel was burned nor any maintenance done - that's why that number sounds so low to me.


*Higher than normal, due to almost $1,000 for ignition modules - most years are less, but then again you can't forget the 5-year hose replacement.

**Someone on the forum stated he flew his Light Sport all in for about $40/hr - which I find very, very, - almost impossibly - low.

 

[Silvaire]

I started flying at the age of 15 in 1969 and cost has always been a limiting factor for me. It's probably the main reason I became an A&P. On my first job, where I started as an apprentice mechanic's helper, I averaged 100 hrs/yr and didn't have to pay for any of it. So, like anything else, if you have a passion for it you'll figure out a way.

But GA isn't ever going to be an everyman thing, there aren't going to be flying cars in every garage (thank god) and I'm fine with it being a niche hobby. If you've been to Oshkosh and to any other country (including even Canada) you're aware that what we have here remains special, it really does not exist in this capacity anywhere else. So in that sense we're blessed.

 

[Everskyward]

Obviously cost is a limiting factor for the majority. Isn't the median income in the country something like $50,000 per household? But for the people who have the money, they still need to have the interest, the inclination to put forth the effort, and the cost/benefit (including fun) ratio needs to work out in favor of having an airplane rather than doing something else with the money.

 

[JCranford]

But GA isn't ever going to be an everyman thing, there aren't going to be flying cars in every garage (thank god) and I'm fine with it being a RICH hobby. If you've been to Oshkosh and to any other country (including even Canada) you're aware that what we have here remains special, it really does not exist in this capacity anywhere else. So in that sense we're blessed.

FIFY!

 

[Jay Honeck]

FIFY!

See, now, that's just BS, and it's the kind of bad rep that kills student start ups.

A few years ago I owned a 1/3rd share of a 2-seat Ercoupe. Three of us bought it so our kids would have something affordable to fly. My TOTAL investment? $6000. What I paid for my Suzuki GSX-650F motorcycle.

Operating costs? 4 gallons of car gas per hour. We rented it to the kids for $15/hour, dry, and covered all of our expenses.

Fun factor? Off the charts. To fly with your arm on the open cockpit sill, like a '57 Chevy, was just fantastic.

This "rich pilot" stuff must STOP. It is easily possible to fly on the cheap, but you'd never know that from reading POA.

 

[SoonerAviator]

The acquisition cost is the big player for me, personally. I have my vehicles paid for, boat, jet ski: paid for. However, both of my vehicles and boats/jet ski have a value somewhere around $60K all-in, which is about what it would cost for a 1970's 4/5-seat XC machine in average condition.

I live in Okla, so not exactly a high cost of living area. We make over $100K as a family and live in a modestly priced home. So, with that being said, I can have 2 boats, a jet ski, and 2 vehicles and no storage costs -or- one 1970's aircraft that I have to pay hangar fees and annual inspections on even when it doesn't move. That's the middle-class conundrum for me, personally. The value on a somewhat basic aircraft (even used) is a substantial outlay for middle-class individuals. To be honest, a $60K aircraft is half of what I paid for my house! It's just hard to justify that much money for a hobby, of which I have many. I could go out and find a ratty 172 for $30K and buzz around, but it's not much of a hauler or XC aircraft. Plenty of 2-seaters out there as well, but I'd plan on having children in the near future, so that makes it a hard sell to the wife.

I suppose if you're used to buying BMW/Mercedes vehicles at $50-60K a pop, maybe the aircraft purchase doesn't seem like much of a stretch.

 

[pilot_dude]

See, now, that's just BS, and it's the kind of bad rep that kills student start ups.

A few years ago I owned a 1/3rd share of a 2-seat Ercoupe. Three of us bought it so our kids would have something affordable to fly. My TOTAL investment? $6000. What I paid for my Suzuki GSX-650F motorcycle.

Operating costs? 4 gallons of car gas per hour. We rented it to the kids for $15/hour, dry, and covered all of our expenses.

Fun factor? Off the charts. To fly with your arm on the open cockpit sill, like a '57 Chevy, was just fantastic.

This "rich pilot" stuff must STOP. It is easily possible to fly on the cheap, but you'd never know that from reading POA.

How much for the ticket (money and time), recurrence training, maintenance, et al? You're looking at it much too simply.

 

[narchee]

This "rich pilot" stuff must STOP. It is easily possible to fly on the cheap, but you'd never know that from reading POA.

Sure, you can fly on the cheap. Buy a piece of crap with minimal or outdated avionics, don't maintain it, don't fly much or do additional training. Don't get insurance. It can be done.

You're not doing anybody any favors by sugarcoating what a commitment this is. It is far worse to trick someone into getting into flying for them to discover later they cannot really afford it. I personally wish more people were more honest about how expensive this hobby is.

 

[Jay Honeck]

How much for the ticket (money and time), recurrence training, maintenance, et al? You're looking at it much too simply.

I was presuming that the pilot already had the ticket, since we were talking about acquisition costs.

Maintenance on the ol' Coupe was minimal. We added some cool stuff, but that was optional. If we wanted, the cost of ownership would have been an oil change every 25 hours, and an annual inspection.

I've known enough boat owners (I swear, I'm the only guy on this island without a boat!) to know that their acquisition costs are higher, and their maintenance costs are, too.

Look, you can spend all of your money on flying. (God knows, I've tried.) But it IS possible to start small, and work your way up. Partnerships, older planes, and mogas are all methods of keeping costs in the reasonable range.

All this talk of going broke flying is harmful. It doesn't have to be that way.

 

[Henning]

See, now, that's just BS, and it's the kind of bad rep that kills student start ups.

A few years ago I owned a 1/3rd share of a 2-seat Ercoupe. Three of us bought it so our kids would have something affordable to fly. My TOTAL investment? $6000. What I paid for my Suzuki GSX-650F motorcycle.

Operating costs? 4 gallons of car gas per hour. We rented it to the kids for $15/hour, dry, and covered all of our expenses.

Fun factor? Off the charts. To fly with your arm on the open cockpit sill, like a '57 Chevy, was just fantastic.

This "rich pilot" stuff must STOP. It is easily possible to fly on the cheap, but you'd never know that from reading POA.

Open air ultralights an LSAs are even cheaper as well.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Open air ultralights an LSAs are even cheaper as well.

Well, that's like saying you can get into boating by buying a 2-man Scamp and a trolling motor. Yeah, it'll get you on the water, but you're not going very far with more than one person at a snail's pace, lol.

You CAN fly cheaply by doing the UL stuff, and maybe that's enough for some. However, it's hard to get others to want to go flying if it involves getting into a go-cart frame that is upheld by a parachute.

 

[Henning]

Again, that is reflective of "bang for buck". If you have the d sire and drive to fly, it can be done on nearly any budget. Utility is the cost multiplier. If there was a great desire, the infrastructure to travel in flocks of ultralights would develop. The interest and desire just isn't there.

 

[Bonchie]

Sure, you can fly on the cheap. Buy a piece of crap with minimal or outdated avionics, don't maintain it, don't fly much or do additional training. Don't get insurance. It can be done.

You're not doing anybody any favors by sugarcoating what a commitment this is. It is far worse to trick someone into getting into flying for them to discover later they cannot really afford it. I personally wish more people were more honest about how expensive this hobby is.

Or just don't buy your own plane.

I rent a Cherokee for $105/wet. On my very middle class income (and I live in DC where's it's freaking expensive), I have no problem spending the $300-400 a month to get to fly several times, have some fun, maybe take a trip to OC with my wife, or whatever.

At this point, I'm spending a lot more then that because I'm getting my IFR (and then heading toward my commercial), but you get the point.

Getting the ticket is expensive, but unless you are freaking dirt poor, it's not a big deal to stay airborne 3-4 hours a month if it gets your rocks off.