Is AOPA doing a good job?

docmirror said:
Joplin MO. Heart of the US.

Central TX. Most GA active state.

KC MO. Historical home of many GA planes.

Jeaneu AK. Greatest need for GA services and support.

Orlando FL. Mickey and Universal.

Vegas NV. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

Really, if you think they are where they are for their advocacy on the hill, or in the beltway, I already showed you how wrong/ineffective they are. No one listens to, or cares about what AOPA thinks before legislating. If anything, they will listen to AOPA to get the slant and then tailor the legislation the opposite to appeal to fellow congressmen/senators or to the gen pop which has a decidedly different set of political goals(restrict GA to the greatest extent).

If you disagree, I'd like you to reconcile why I have to register with the feds when I LEAVE this country by aircraft, and not when I leave by car, rail, boat, or feet. Yep - the only ones who need to be authorized to LEAVE the US, are those who fly. AOPA at it's finest...

<edited for grammar>
Click to expand...

Why not the Hudson River since that is where Sully saved aviation? :rolleyes:

Come on -- Say it was in central texas or joplin, you would then pay for staff to fly to DC to work with legislators and regulators?

Second, did you read the few links I found above?

Third, just for giggles, has the NRA done anything on the hill? Can you count 'things not happening' as 'things that have happened'?
 
MichiPilot said:
Why not the Hudson River since that is where Sully saved aviation? :rolleyes:

Come on -- Say it was in central texas or joplin, you would then pay for staff to fly to DC to work with legislators and regulators?

Second, did you read the few links I found above?

Third, just for giggles, has the NRA done anything on the hill? Can you count 'things not happening' as 'things that have happened'?
Click to expand...

OK by me. Hudson river it is.

Aren't you reading? AOPA does nothing on the hill anyway. Whatever AOPA thinks about legislation, the feds do the opposite. At this point, AOPA should do a double reverse, and tell legislators the opposite of what they are trying to do: AOPA advocate; "Sure - we really love the new legislation that all planes under 12,000# be on an active flight plan at all times, and pay for each landing! I think that's a cracker idea, and we should also add that the pilots need to get permission from each state they travel across before taking off. Yeah! Let's do that - right on congressman, you really are a friend to gen aviation".

Despite all the attempts to the contrary, everyone can still keep and bear arms. If AOPA suddenly vanished(my fervent hope) I would instantly start the PRA(Pilots Rights Association), and my millions in the bank would not be spent on fancy offices in Frederick, or a big fine jet, or any of the other BS stuff AOPA wastes money on, I would have a team of crack lawyers, some of them young guns looking to make a name attacking everything and everyone who raises their voice against the peoples right to travel by air(Ron may tell you otherwise, but it is a right, and not a privilege).
 
docmirror said:
OK by me. Hudson river it is.

Aren't you reading? AOPA does nothing on the hill anyway. Whatever AOPA thinks about legislation, the feds do the opposite. At this point, AOPA should do a double reverse, and tell legislators the opposite of what they are trying to do: AOPA advocate; "Sure - we really love the new legislation that all planes under 12,000# be on an active flight plan at all times, and pay for each landing! I think that's a cracker idea, and we should also add that the pilots need to get permission from each state they travel across before taking off. Yeah! Let's do that - right on congressman, you really are a friend to gen aviation".

Despite all the attempts to the contrary, everyone can still keep and bear arms. If AOPA suddenly vanished(my fervent hope) I would instantly start the PRA(Pilots Rights Association), and my millions in the bank would not be spent on fancy offices in Frederick, or a big fine jet, or any of the other BS stuff AOPA wastes money on, I would have a team of crack lawyers, some of them young guns looking to make a name attacking everything and everyone who raises their voice against the peoples right to travel by air(Ron may tell you otherwise, but it is a right, and not a privilege).
Click to expand...

so you just hate rather than look at things objectively? did you get turned down for a job or something?
 
MichiPilot said:
so you just hate rather than look at things objectively? did you get turned down for a job or something?
Click to expand...

Hate? I don't hate anything or any one. Find anywhere I said I hate AOPA. Projecting, cause you have no answers I see. Another strawman built - and demolished. Well done I say, well done.

I'm self-employed. I guess - I could fire myself. That's it, I'm fired. Collect my final check and get my personal stuff. :rofl:

buh-bye
 
docmirror said:
Hate? I don't hate anything or any one. Find anywhere I said I hate AOPA. Projecting, cause you have no answers I see. Another strawman built - and demolished. Well done I say, well done.

I'm self-employed. I guess - I could fire myself. That's it, I'm fired. Collect my final check and get my personal stuff. :rofl:

buh-bye
Click to expand...

ohh...ok

what about these?
https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/...reak-permanent

https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/...-tax-exemption

https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/...tion-in-Kansas

https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/...w-in-Wisconsin

https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/...exemption-bill

https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/...Texas-advocacy

https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/...ches-milestone

https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/...liability-bill
 
I dropped my membership a couple of years ago out of disgust at their rotten financial stewardship and their elitist and secretive governance.

In the maybe 8-10 years I did belong I came to the conclusion that there were people there who were genuinely trying to advance GA as they thought it should be advanced. I think that is still the case. I never saw, however, any independent evidence that they were effective. Lots of self-promotional puffery in the magazine of course, but what else would you expect?

Maybe they are effective. Maybe not. I don't think we have any way to know right now.

Maybe AOPA could spend some of its huge cash hoard to hire an independent company (one of the big accounting/consulting firrms, for example) to evaluate their effectiveness by actually studying the issues and interviewing the people that AOPA claims to have influenced. One or two million bucks should get us a pretty good evaluation and in the context of AOPA's revenues and cash hoard that is a pittance.
 
Last edited:
FloridaPilot said:
I got my bill in the mail from AOPA for $60.00 bucks! It's really not the price that is important, (Because it's cheap)
Click to expand...

It may only be "cheap" by GenAv standards. Median houshold income in the US is roughly $50k/yr. Call it $1,000/wk gross, or $25/hr. That puts this media income person in the 25% tax bracket, and after SS & Medicare comes out (~9%), they'd have to work an additional 3.5 hrs. just to pay dues -- before they even spin the prop. The idea that it's "cheap" because everything else in aviation is expensive is flawed.

FloridaPilot said:
How do you get the people who might have an interest in GA to interested?
Click to expand...

Lower the costs (see above). How to do that? Start by getting government the hell out of the way. Most planes flying are 40 years old and the technology in them is decades older -- all attributable to the costs of certifying new technology. Remove certification both as a real obstacle such that it is, and as cover/excuse for companies like GARMIN permitting them to sell a $200 motocycle/marine GPS unit repurposed as "Aviation" for $20,000.

Why should anyone have to pay for a subscription fee to Jeppesen to get required current GPS approach data that in turn is freely handed to Jepp by a government office (AreoNav)? Define a GPS data protocol standard, and let any source fitting the standard (including AeroNav) be sufficient (just like paper charts - NACO v. Jepp). Anyone who wants to pay a subscription to Jepp or whoever for their hand-holding or pretty formatting can remain free to do so.

Once we knock out the mindset that "well, flying is expensive; so this cost is acceptable" all sorts of costs will come down. Then you know what might happen? Flying won't be so damn expensive any more, and the pilot numbers might go up instead of down.
 
I think they need to infiltrate the FAA, honestly. A lot of the lack of movement on GA-friendly legislation comes down to PFAs inside the FAA.

I mean, look at part 23 re-write. Why is it such blasphemy? What's the problem? That should be reality already. You can't undo bureaucracy though and I don't think that's AOPAs fault... unless they're contributing to that bureaucracy because they're truly only interested in advocating for the money makers aka biz GA?

I don't follow the machinations of AOPA enough to know if that's true or not, they're just my insurance broker, but something tells me the FAA is a bigger enemy of GA than AOPA.
 
DJTorrente said:
It may only be "cheap" by GenAv standards. Median houshold income in the US is roughly $50k/yr. Call it $1,000/wk gross, or $25/hr. That puts this media income person in the 25% tax bracket, and after SS & Medicare comes out (~9%), they'd have to work an additional 3.5 hrs. just to pay dues -- before they even spin the prop. The idea that it's "cheap" because everything else in aviation is expensive is flawed.



Lower the costs (see above). How to do that? Start by getting government the hell out of the way. Most planes flying are 40 years old and the technology in them is decades older -- all attributable to the costs of certifying new technology. Remove certification both as a real obstacle such that it is, and as cover/excuse for companies like GARMIN permitting them to sell a $200 motocycle/marine GPS unit repurposed as "Aviation" for $20,000.

Why should anyone have to pay for a subscription fee to Jeppesen to get required current GPS approach data that in turn is freely handed to Jepp by a government office (AreoNav)? Define a GPS data protocol standard, and let any source fitting the standard (including AeroNav) be sufficient (just like paper charts - NACO v. Jepp). Anyone who wants to pay a subscription to Jepp or whoever for their hand-holding or pretty formatting can remain free to do so.

Once we knock out the mindset that "well, flying is expensive; so this cost is acceptable" all sorts of costs will come down. Then you know what might happen? Flying won't be so damn expensive any more, and the pilot numbers might go up instead of down.
Click to expand...

BINGO! :yes:
 
I think AOPA is doing a great job representing people with a commercial business interest in GA. Representing pilots and owners, not so much.
 
I'm in AOPA and EAA. EAA has a pancake breakfast once a month, and my nephews participated in the EAA Young Eagles. Have no idea where an AOPA chapter is or meets in ATL.
 
brianwrites said:
I'm in AOPA and EAA. EAA has a pancake breakfast once a month, and my nephews participated in the EAA Young Eagles. Have no idea where an AOPA chapter is or meets in ATL.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately unlike EAA, AOPA does not have any local chapters at all. I think having local AOPA chapters just like EAA does may be a good idea.
 
N918KT said:
Unfortunately unlike EAA, AOPA does not have any local chapters at all. I think having local AOPA chapters just like EAA does may be a good idea.
Click to expand...

Does the EAA have a chapter in Florida? I would go!
 
docmirror said:
...I would have a team of crack lawyers, some of them young guns looking to make a name attacking everything and everyone who raises their voice against the peoples right to travel by air(Ron may tell you otherwise, but it is a right, and not a privilege).
Click to expand...

The ability to travel unemcumbered by the requirements of papers, permits, permission is, in my estimation, a basic tenet of freedom. A right, if you will.

The ability to be in charge of a conveyance, be it a ground vehicle, sea vehicle, air vehicle, Star Ship or time-travel machine, is not a basic right. It is a privilege that may be licensed, regulated and controlled.

So, I agree, travel is a right. Flying your own aircraft is not.
 
Mason said:
The ability to travel unemcumbered by the requirements of papers, permits, permission is, in my estimation, a basic tenet of freedom. A right, if you will.

The ability to be in charge of a conveyance, be it a ground vehicle, sea vehicle, air vehicle, Star Ship or time-travel machine, is not a basic right. It is a privilege that may be licensed, regulated and controlled.

So, I agree, travel is a right. Flying your own aircraft is not.
Click to expand...
Were the founders pro horse and buggy licenses or not? Methinks you fell down the friendly fascism rabbit hole.
 
They did a good job with getting me the Hertz Gold status. That was pretty sweet. I think that is the only benefit of AOPA that I have used.
 
Fearless Tower said:
They did a good job with getting me the Hertz Gold status. That was pretty sweet. I think that is the only benefit of AOPA that I have used.
Click to expand...

Is that why people believe that AOPA isn't doing a good job? Because people don't use the benefits?

If AOPA is so big why did they go up on the dues?
 
I've been a faithful AOPA member since 1999.

Is the AOPA perfect ? Certainly not...far from it.

I am convinced, however, that without this large lobbying organisation representing hundreds of thousands of pilots, the state of GA would be dramatically worse.

Is the U.S. Government doing a perfect job ? I don't think so...but you still pay federal taxes...( would you be in a better situation without a government ? )
 
RotorAndWing said:
As soon as that Haines guy pipes in or the AOPA girl post, this will go for another 100 post.......

I'll put some burgers on the grill!
Click to expand...

All of this talk about food has gotten me hungry!


I'm trying to lose weight though, so far I have lost 20 LBS. Flying can be used as motivation.
 
Armageddon Aviator said:
I've been a faithful AOPA member since 1999.

Is the AOPA perfect ? Certainly not...far from it.

I am convinced, however, that without this large lobbying organisation representing hundreds of thousands of pilots, the state of GA would be dramatically worse.

Is the U.S. Government doing a perfect job ? I don't think so...but you still pay federal taxes...( would you be in a better situation without a government ? )
Click to expand...

In previous posts there are some on here that said they are not doing anything at all. I just have to do my own research. For some reason, I thought everyone would support AOPA because ANY organization that is trying to keep GA alive should be a good one.

As a side note and this will be brief. No the US Government is NOT doing a good job and they don't have to. Too many of our residents are fighting against each other instead of coming together as Americans.
 
FloridaPilot said:
In previous posts there are some on here that said they are not doing anything at all. I just have to do my own research. For some reason, I thought everyone would support AOPA because ANY organization that is trying to keep GA alive should be a good one.

As a side note and this will be brief. No the US Government is NOT doing a good job and they don't have to. Too many of our residents are fighting against each other instead of coming together as Americans.
Click to expand...

I think a big part of AOPAs problem is that particularly during Craig Fuller's tenure, AOPA really started catering to the uber- rich business jet crowd and left much of the GA base feeling alienated. The problem within that is that rather than focus on fighting for GA, they were duplicating efforts of already existing organizations like the NBAA.

A TON of us simply got fed up and left during Fuller's reign. I'm back now and while I see some improvement. They simply gave a long way to go to repay the damage done.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I think a big part of AOPAs problem is that particularly during Craig Fuller's tenure, AOPA really started catering to the uber- rich business jet crowd and left much of the GA base feeling alienated. The problem within that is that rather than focus on fighting for GA, they were duplicating efforts of already existing organizations like the NBAA.

A TON of us simply got fed up and left during Fuller's reign. I'm back now and while I see some improvement. They simply gave a long way to go to repay the damage done.
Click to expand...

Thank you,

Do you have any more organizations I can do some more research on? So far I got EAA, AOPA and NBAA.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Thank you,

Do you have any more organizations I can do some more research on? So far I got EAA, AOPA and NBAA.
Click to expand...

Those are certainly the big ones. The CAF (Commemorative Air Force) has also started to fight for GA in general, but the CAF is still battling decades of bad rep as 'cowboys' who wreck airplanes.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Those are certainly the big ones. The CAF (Commemorative Air Force) has also started to fight for GA in general, but the CAF is still battling decades of bad rep as 'cowboys' who wreck airplanes.
Click to expand...

I guess I will become a member of all of them and then I can come up with my own perspective.


Thanks again!
 
FloridaPilot said:
I guess I will become a member of all of them and then I can come up with my own perspective.


Thanks again!
Click to expand...

I'd suggest EAA and AOPA and see how you feel about the two. NBAA is probably not very useful to the average GA pilot unless you have aspirations of corporate flying. I'd only join the CAF if you really like warbirds.
 
AOPA chapters? What would they do? EAA has chapters because the whole purpose of the organization is to mentor amateur builders, and much of that has to be done hands-on and in-person. The two organizations have very different focuses.

I can't really fault Craig Fuller for what happened to EAA. He guided things more toward turbines and rich guys, but I'm guessing that was his marching orders, because those folks will always fly regardless of the economy, carry clout in Washington, and they're better bait for advertisers. I left AOPA when I was told my emergency donations were needed by the PAC to prevent the defeat of some really awful incumbent lawmakers, just because they were members of the GA Caucus.

EAA has stayed truer to its mission, in part because experimentals can't be used in revenue service and because Oshkosh is a cash cow not to be messed with.

I think AOPA has finally taken note of the torches and pitchforks on the front lawn. It will take time to repair the damage to the brand done during the Fuller years. The wine club was taken down a couple years ago, and is still (deservedly) the frequent butt of jokes.
 
Last edited:
Fearless Tower said:
I'd suggest EAA and AOPA and see how you feel about the two. NBAA is probably not very useful to the average GA pilot unless you have aspirations of corporate flying. I'd only join the CAF if you really like warbirds.
Click to expand...

I love warbirds!

That is what started my interest in flying when I was a kid. Now I wasn't around when those beasts took to the air but when I was a kid they marketed it enough, (70's) through toys, cartoons....etc
 
AOPA will not be renewed by me this year.

I will be starting up EAA. They seem more grass roots and more in line with what I am looking for out of aviation.
 
RANDOM wrote....Despite all the attempts to the contrary, everyone can still keep and bear arms. If AOPA suddenly vanished(my fervent hope) I would instantly start the PRA(Pilots Rights Association), and my millions in the bank would not be spent on fancy offices in Frederick, or a big fine jet, or any of the other BS stuff AOPA wastes money on, I would have a team of crack lawyers, some of them young guns looking to make a name attacking everything and everyone who raises their voice against the peoples right to travel by air(Ron may tell you otherwise, but it is a right, and not a privilege).[/QUOTE]


I am a student pilot and an owner of a C150. I became a member of AOPA when I read all the benefits and everything they would do for me as a private pilot. I realized what kind of company they where when I called to insure my 150. I never received a quote, phone call or an email back from them. Si I do not believe from my own experience that they are doing a good job and I will not be renewing at the end of my 1 year membership.

I think you have a good idea and a good platform to start something new that will actually help PP. This forum has 15,000 members on it and if you could get just half to contribute the same kind of dues that AOPA charges you would be off to a good start. PRA has a nice ring to it also. What you said in another post about GA being the only ones to have to report leaving the US is right. I routinely shoot over to the Bahamas from Miami without any paperwork. The only thing we all have to do is clear customs on the way back. In bound we make a call to the CG and state where the boat will be docked. The usual response is to report to so and so customs office within 48hrs. It really sucks that GA pilots are treated differently but that what the US has become.
 
Last edited:
I am a student pilot and an owner of a C150. I became a member of AOPA when I read all the benefits and everything they would do for me as a private pilot. I realized what kind of company they where when I called to insure my 150. I never received a quote, phone call or an email back from them.
Click to expand...

I have had our C-150 insured through AOPA's service for the past 8+ years. There must have been some kind of mix-up in your case. The staff at AOPA is always very helpful and prompt when I call, and the rates are much less than AVEMCO, at least for me.

I said it earlier, but I have been a member of AOPA for a long time now and will continue to be. If AOPA were out of the picture, general aviation flying in the United States would be much different and much less free than it is now. Instead of sitting on the sidelines complaining, we all need to get involved. United we stand, divided we fall.
 
If you guys are starting up an organization for PP I would definitely help get it off the ground with time and money.


I'm in let me know how I can help!
 
I am quite surprised one of AOPA's staff hasn't chimed in. Did they all get scared off already?
 
Flymeariver said:
I am quite surprised one of AOPA's staff hasn't chimed in. Did they all get scared off already?
Click to expand...

They will be along once they figure out how they can generate revenue from the answer. If no money for them is involved, don't expect much.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top