IRS Building Hit By Small Plane

Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Black eye for the rest of us. Enjoy your freedom for the little while longer it lasts.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

mantakos said:
For a Cherokee 140, it sure seems to have done a good job of setting an entire floor of an office building on fire. This looks way bigger than what resulted from the Cory Lidle crash of a Cirrus in New York.
-harry
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or the kid who slammed a 172 into a Tampa office building. That is why I am reluctant to think that the 'small plane' is a bug smasher of the trainer variety. Until real proof is submitted I remain skeptical.

or maybe, just maybe there was a load of micro-thermite built into the building by the feds...;)
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

For a Cherokee 140, it sure seems to have done a good job of setting an entire floor of an office building on fire. This looks way bigger than what resulted from the Cory Lidle crash of a Cirrus in New York.
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Different floor plan probably explains it. The aerosolized fuel would spread much easier through the open floor plan of an office building (hence why flaming fuel shot out the other side of the WTC when that occurred) vs. the divided up layout of the apartment building Lidle smacked into. It doesn't take much fuel to start a hell of a fire in there, even when the "fuel" isn't 100LL. Plenty of airflow, plenty of fuel, no easy access to put water on it...it pretty much hits all the major points of the fire tetrahedron (oxygen, heat, chemical reaction, fuel).

Just my two cents as a former volunteer fire officer...
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

At 23:05 you can hear ATC call the traffic, altitude unknown, to the Fedex Caravan 928FE that was previously discussed. Audio from 23:05-26:00 occasionally discusses the unknown target. News reports impact in the 10:26 minute.
 

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Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

SteveinMichigan said:
Different floor plan probably explains it. The aerosolized fuel would spread much easier through the open floor plan of an office building (hence why flaming fuel shot out the other side of the WTC when that occurred) vs. the divided up layout of the apartment building Lidle smacked into. It doesn't take much fuel to start a hell of a fire in there, even when the "fuel" isn't 100LL. Plenty of airflow, plenty of fuel, no easy access to put water on it...it pretty much hits all the major points of the fire tetrahedron (oxygen, heat, chemical reaction, fuel).

Just my two cents as a former volunteer fire officer...
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What's usable in a Cirrus SR-22 (now being reported as the accident airplane by CNN)? 80 gallons?

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Makes some sense. A Cirrus carried more gas and can impact with much higher kinetic energy than a 150 or a Cherokee. Still, ifni only knows where any of this is coming from.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

astanley said:
What's usable in a Cirrus SR-22 (now being reported as the accident airplane by CNN)? 80 gallons?

Cheers,

-Andrew
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I'm not sure since I won't fly them. It doesn't take much though. I've seen similar fire conditions in an office building where the accelerant used to start the fire was carried into the building in a five or ten gallon gas can.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

The media is saying its a Cherokee 140.

They already brought up that no Flightplan was filed. :rolleyes:
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

mantakos said:
For a Cherokee 140, it sure seems to have done a good job of setting an entire floor of an office building on fire. This looks way bigger than what resulted from the Cory Lidle crash of a Cirrus in New York.
-harry
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A commentator made a comparision with the Liddle crash. He noted that Liddle crashed into a solid brick building, where as the other was a glass and metal frame building.

I would also add that office buildings tend to have large amounts of paper to fuel the fire.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Fox reported a name, Joseph Andrew Stack, I don't see that name in the FAA airman DB, which might lead to a "stolen" conclusion...
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

How long before there is a "Stadium TFR" around all federal buildings???
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N2889D

1:19 p.m.: FAA officials tell CNN the plane was a Piper Cherokee PA-28.
1:18 p.m.: A federal law enforcement official tells CNN that they believe the plane belonged to Joseph Andrew Stack.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Fox is calling it a Cherokee 140. 40 or 50 gallons.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

AdamB said:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N2889D

1:19 p.m.: FAA officials tell CNN the plane was a Piper Cherokee PA-28.
1:18 p.m.: A federal law enforcement official tells CNN that they believe the plane belonged to Joseph Andrew Stack.
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Yeah, was gonna say I found an Andrew Joseph Stack, III in the FAA records. No address listed. PP-ASEL/MEL-IA
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Great! Just the kind of ammunition the TSA and general public needs to put further clamps on general aviation. This is going to hurt!
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

JeffDG said:
Fox reported a name, Joseph Andrew Stack, I don't see that name in the FAA airman DB, which might lead to a "stolen" conclusion...
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I did, however, find that there was a Joseph A Stack that had a Piper PA-28-236 with a last action date in 2007. Tail number shows to have been flown from Portales to KGTU last August (no activity on FlightAware more recent than that using the tail number).

Given the bits and pieces being put together, is it out of the realm to believe it might not have been a current pilot but still have been an owner of the single-engine used in this incident?

ETA: I see that someone beat me to the plane info...]
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

"Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Lynn Lunsford said the pilot didn't file a flight plan. He didn't identify the pilot. "

We are in for it now!
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

wbarnhill said:
Yeah, was gonna say I found an Andrew Joseph Stack, III in the FAA records. No address listed. PP-ASEL/MEL-IA
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There is an A Joseph Stack III in TxDPS Driver License records with a 1956 DOB (which matches the 'note' being attributed to Joe Stack on the Austin American Statesman website)...last renewal was in 2004 with an address on Parmer in North Austin. Also worth noting is that the webnote from Stack makes reference to a move from California, which would also be consistent with the registration information on 2889D
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Wow. Reporters are total idiots.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Greg Bockelman said:
Wow. Reporters are total idiots.
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I don't know that I would go that far. They are just uninformed in highly technical areas. In the rush to be the first to press, they unsurprisingly make numerous mistakes based on their fairly understandable ignorance.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Austin American Statesman is reporting that the pilot posted a manifesto to a web forum before launching...

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/cont...e_posted_by_man_li.html?cxntcid=breaking_news

(beginning portion deleted)
I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy **** up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution.

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of **** at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Joe Stack (1956-2010)
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Sounds like a suicide note to me.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Oh my!!! "In upwards of 50 gallons of highly flammable aviation fuel!!!!!"

You mean the same sh-tuff you put in your car? Oh yea.

Stupid reporters
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Also from the Statesman:
FAA confirms plane came from Georgetown

By Ben Wear | Thursday, February 18, 2010, 12:29 PM
The plane that hit a building today took off from a Georgetown airport at 9:40 a.m., before heading south and slamming into an office building in Northwest Austin, Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Laura Brown said just after noon.

The plane, Brown said, was a single-engine Piper Cherokee, PA28. The FAA has the plane’s tail number, Brown said, but is not releasing it yet.
​
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

I think we need to be making the argument that "see how little a GA plane actually does when used for something like this"

2 injured and not even critically, you could do more damage with a smart car.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

steingar said:
I don't know that I would go that far. They are just uninformed in highly technical areas. In the rush to be the first to press, they unsurprisingly make numerous mistakes based on their fairly understandable ignorance.
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Oh, I would. Listen to the questions they ask. They don't care.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

And of course there is no other news today. The rest of the world has come to a standstill.

The Dow's up 36 by the way!

;)
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

He couldn't have used a van or something?
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

steingar said:
He couldn't have used a van or something?
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My thoughts exactly. Then would the media asked if he had filed a "Drive Plan"?
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Greg Bockelman said:
Wow. Reporters are total idiots.
Click to expand...
steingar said:
I don't know that I would go that far. They are just uninformed in highly technical areas. In the rush to be the first to press, they unsurprisingly make numerous mistakes based on their fairly understandable ignorance.
Click to expand...

The rush to be first issue is evident but...

I got a good laugh a few weeks ago when a reporter made the following comment about one of Haiti's aftershocks:

and at 6.0 it was nearly as strong as the original 7.0 'quake
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I guess the richter scale is "a highly technical area" also. :rolleyes:

Nahh...most of them are idiots. Pretty idiots though.
 
Re: FBI Building Hit By Small Plane

Just realized that crazy pilot's house (that he also torched) is just down from a friend's house. No word on whether friend's house is damaged or just taped off to use the yard as a staging area...(yeah, it was THAT close)
 
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