IR to fly approaches and fly in crummy weather OR to go VFR on top

[Flyhound]

Use of the rating also depends on where you live. I got my IR when I lived in Seattle, and I used it a lot! Many of my flights were in the muck all the way, and I was able to fly a lot more often with the rating than would have been possible without it.

Then I moved to New Mexico. I never used my IR there. If conditions were IFR it was due to violent thunderstorms and no rating makes flying a small plane viable under those conditions.

Now I live in the DC area and the SFRA surrounding DC means filling IFR makes life a lot easier when operating to, or from airports within the SFRA area.

So, there are many advantages to having the rating, but how you use it can change a lot depending on where you live and where you fly.

For what it is worth, I don't like flying IFR in my current plane. I fly a Maule with steam gauges and no autopilot. Flying IFR requires a lot of concentration with the plane and panel I currently have and that can be exhausting on a long flight. I still keep up on my skills though be sure they make me a more precise pilot. The same can be said for flying a taildragger.

 

[jordane93]

Whats a cruise clearance?

It basically gives a chunk of altitude for the pilot to fly in. You can climb, descend, and level off in your "block altitude." But if you descend from the altitude in the block airspace, you have to notify ATC before you return to that altitude

 

[ChrisK]

It basically gives a chunk of altitude for the pilot to fly in. You can climb, descend, and level off in your "block altitude." But if you descend from the altitude in the block airspace, you have to notify ATC before you return to that altitude

And I understand it is given often to allow vmc decent to and landing at an uncontrolled airport. What I always found confusing is that once given a cruise clearance (ex cruise 6000) you can fly anywhere from your minimum altitude to the cruise limit up and down unless you report a descent (leaving 6000 for 4000) at which point it is though your cruise clearance was changed to 4000.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

Whats a cruise clearance?

In practical terms it's essentially a descent clearance. It allows you to fly in IMC at any altitude from the altitude specified in the cruise clearance down to the minimum IFR altitude as per 91.177 which will usually be lower sometimes significantly lower than the lowest altitude ATC can assign. Understand that ATCs minimum assignable altitude is based on the highest obstacle in what may be a fairly large area out in remote (less traveled) country and that obstacle may be such a distance away from your route as to present no danger, OTOH a cruise clearance allows descent to an altitude based on the highest obstacle within 4 nm of your specific route, a much smaller area so that high terrain that's maybe way over on the other side of the area that ATCs MIA is based on doesn't effect your MIA.
When you're issued one of these clearances it'll come with a specified altitude and will sound something like "cleared cruise six thousand". As noted if you report leaving an altitude you can't return there without obtaining further clearance so if you're smart unless ATC asks you to "report leaving six thousand" you DON'T report leaving, you just acknowledge the clearance and now you own everything from 6000' down to your minimum instrument altitude.
As you might imagine ATC won't be too eager to issue one of these clearances in busy airspace 'cause he's giving you exclusive use of a pretty big chunk but out in areas of "roads less traveled" they can be quite useful and can mean the difference between getting safely in at your destination or not.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

Most of my airspace is dominated by the Bravo. If I can provide an advantage to the pilot, and not adversely impact my neighboring sectors, I'll issue bravo clearances. OTP doesn't give any help, since I still need to use IFR separation.

In the center environment, sure. But heck, after eleven years take a guess how many OTP clearances I issued...

Now take a guess how many cruise or through clearances I issued.

In your airspace I'd assume a safe guess to all three would be ZERO.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

Lol, well, I did say I've never done it.

Okay, so that's the point...you keep you're clearance for later?

Yeah, that's pretty much it. You could do pretty much the same thing and more just by canceling IFR but then if you need the clearance down the line it's easier to just get back on a hard altitude than to pop-up for a whole new clearance.

 

[MarkZ]

In your airspace I'd assume a safe guess to all three would be ZERO.

A cruise clearance not only let's you descend at PD to your clearance limit, it clears you to conduct an instrument approach of your choice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[peerlesscowboy]

A cruise clearance not only let's you descend at PD to your clearance limit, it clears you to conduct an instrument approach of your choice.

Yes, it's all about 91.177 and what is or is not available in that regard at your destination.

 

[PPC1052]

Whats a cruise clearance?

It gives you discretion for any altitude between minimum IFR altitude (typically the MEA) and the altitude in the clearance. Also, it implies a clearance for the approach to the airport.

From the Pilot Controller Glossary:

CRUISE- Used in an ATC clearance to authorize a pilot to conduct flight at any altitude from the minimum IFR altitude up to and including the altitude specified in the clearance. The pilot may level off at any intermediate altitude within this block of airspace. Climb/descent within the block is to be made at the discretion of the pilot. However, once the pilot starts descent and verbally reports leaving an altitude in the block, he/she may not return to that altitude without additional ATC clearance. Further, it is approval for the pilot to proceed to and make an approach at destination airport and can be used in conjunction with:

a. An airport clearance limit at locations with a standard/special instrument approach procedure. The CFRs require that if an instrument letdown to an airport is necessary, the pilot shall make the letdown in accordance with a standard/special instrument approach procedure for that airport, or

b. An airport clearance limit at locations that are within/below/outside controlled airspace and without a standard/special instrument approach procedure. Such a clearance is NOT AUTHORIZATION for the pilot to descend under IFR conditions below the applicable minimum IFR altitude nor does it imply that ATC is exercising control over aircraft in Class G airspace; however, it provides a means for the aircraft to proceed to destination airport, descend, and land in accordance with applicable CFRs governing VFR flight operations. Also, this provides search and rescue protection until such time as the IFR flight plan is closed.
​

 

[coma24]

I used VFR on top once.

I departed VFR on a fairly long flight. There were some broken clouds up ahead, maybe 2000ft from bases to tops. I wanted to climb through them to get to my final cruise altitude. I told the controller I wanted a "climb to VFR on top"

He issued me a short range clearance, "cleared to the CAE xxxx radial, yy DME fix, climb to and maintain VFR on top, if not on top by [ifr altitude], maintain [ifr altitude] and advise, no tops reports available."

That was from memory, so if there are errors, I apologize.

I read it back, blasted through the clouds, got more than 1000ft above them, then cancelled well before reaching the clearance limit.

 

[JHW]

I haven't heard of a cruise clearance in a long time but back when i was in college flying checks at night I'd get them all the time on the last leg to home. Leaving indianapolis it was cleared direct vichy (missouri) cruise 13K and I wouldn't hear another word until i cancelled IFR on the payphone after landing.

 

[PPC1052]

I used VFR on top once.

I departed VFR on a fairly long flight. There were some broken clouds up ahead, maybe 2000ft from bases to tops. I wanted to climb through them to get to my final cruise altitude. I told the controller I wanted a "climb to VFR on top"

He issued me a short range clearance, "cleared to the CAE xxxx radial, yy DME fix, climb to and maintain VFR on top, if not on top by [ifr altitude], maintain [ifr altitude] and advise, no tops reports available."

That was from memory, so if there are errors, I apologize.

I read it back, blasted through the clouds, got more than 1000ft above them, then cancelled well before reaching the clearance limit.

That's actually not "VFR on top." That was cleared "to VFR on top." In otherwords, as you described, you canceled IFR once you were in VFR conditions, and continued under VFR flight rules. VFR on top is actually still an IFR clearance-- you are flying under IFR rules-- but you follow VFR rules, too. What you did was get an IFR clearance to climb through IMC, cancelled, and then flew "VFR over the top", not "VFR on top."

http://www.flyingmag.com/training/instrument-flight-rules/ifr-vfr-top

I know this sounds pedantic. (I'm sorry.) But since some will be taking IFR written and oral exams, I didn't want anyone confused.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

............, there's a subtle difference between the clearance "VFR on Top" and "climb to VFR on Top". I've never used the latter so I hesitate to expand much but it's my understanding "Climb to VFR on top" is used a lot in heavily traveled area along the west coast that experience regular low stratus marine layers by pilots wanting to depart from a coastal airport, climb up thru' the shallow marine layer and then proceed under VFR to airports farther inland that tend to be clear while avoiding the usual circutous routing associated with IFR flight in these areas. They'll pick up a short range IFR "climb to VFR on Top, if not on top by 4000 maintain 4000 and advise" with the assumption by all parties that they plan to cancel IFR once they're in VFR conditions above the marine layer. Keep in mind once on top their clearance is just like any other VFR on top IFR clearance until they cancel.

 

[Sac Arrow]

In those instances where I just need to climb through a low cloud layer to VMC conditions, I just ask for an "IFR climb to VFR." Sometimes approach will give me a clearance limit like a nearby VOR, or sometimes they will just give me a climb to above the MVA with instructions to let them know if I haven't reached VFR conditions at that point.

 

[the400kid]

Since I passed my instrument check ride a few months ago I've been looking for crummy weather to fly in but it's been eluding me. I flew recently in some broken clouds and it felt really great.

But to answer the question, one of the reasons I got my rating is so that I can get out of my home airport, which is located near the shore and always seems to have a low overcast in the morning. Another reason is planning a trip and having a great deal of confidence that I'll be able to make it. Before the rating I found myself cancelling at least 50% of my flights due to overcast.

 

[j1b3h0]

Yes. As has been mentioned, clouds and limited visibility are merely an inconvenience to IR pilots. That said, I would never go IFR unless I had to. I want to takeoff, climb to 500ft., and turn to a heading that will take me DIRECT to my destination. Pigs will fly before that's ever possible when flying IFR. Plan on 30 to 45% more time and fuel IFR. Delay vectors, holding, inefficient routings make instrument flights a pain.

VFR on top is handy sometimes when say, you departed VFR, but you notice before long you may find it challenging to maintain VFR cloud separation limits, or you find the weather at your dest. airport may require an approach, so request a VFR on top clearance to some fix you know you'd be directed to if IFR. Ten minutes later, "Center, Bonanza such and such, request a hard altitude." Viola! you're IFR. Flew turboprops like that for years.

 

[the400kid]

Yes. As has been mentioned, clouds and limited visibility are merely an inconvenience to IR pilots. That said, I would never go IFR unless I had to. I want to takeoff, climb to 500ft., and turn to a heading that will take me DIRECT to my destination. Pigs will fly before that's ever possible when flying IFR. Plan on 30 to 45% more time and fuel IFR. Delay vectors, holding, inefficient routings make instrument flights a pain.

VFR on top is handy sometimes when say, you departed VFR, but you notice before long you may find it challenging to maintain VFR cloud separation limits, or you find the weather at your dest. airport may require an approach, so request a VFR on top clearance to some fix you know you'd be directed to if IFR. Ten minutes later, "Center, Bonanza such and such, request a hard altitude." Viola! you're IFR. Flew turboprops like that for years.

Interesting post. I spent so much time and effort on my rating that I feel totally at ease in IMC and (other than the boredom) don't mind spending an extended period of time flying through it.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Yes. As has been mentioned, clouds and limited visibility are merely an inconvenience to IR pilots. That said, I would never go IFR unless I had to. I want to takeoff, climb to 500ft., and turn to a heading that will take me DIRECT to my destination. Pigs will fly before that's ever possible when flying IFR. Plan on 30 to 45% more time and fuel IFR. Delay vectors, holding, inefficient routings make instrument flights a pain.

Ah, you poor coastal types - Here in the Midwest, as long as you stay the heck away from Chicago, turning direct destination at 400 AGL while IFR is not uncommon at all. It's been a LONG time since I haven't gotten "cleared as filed" here. My last trip, outbound I filed an airway so I could stay extra-low for winds/ice if needed (they offered me direct, and I turned it down). On the way home, I pointed straight at my home field, then had to go off course to shoot an approach when I outran the weather that was departing the area.

 

[the400kid]

Ah, you poor coastal types - Here in the Midwest, as long as you stay the heck away from Chicago, turning direct destination at 400 AGL while IFR is not uncommon at all. It's been a LONG time since I haven't gotten "cleared as filed" here. My last trip, outbound I filed an airway so I could stay extra-low for winds/ice if needed (they offered me direct, and I turned it down). On the way home, I pointed straight at my home field, then had to go off course to shoot an approach when I outran the weather that was departing the area.

Thus far I haven't been cleared as filed yet.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Thus far I haven't been cleared as filed yet.

Where are you?

 

[the400kid]

Where are you?

Miami

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Miami

Yup. Coastal. Even worse, since your state is pretty much oriented in a single direction and everyone has to go north or deal with sharks when leaving.

The only time I'm not cleared as filed (which is usually direct to destination) is when I head east. Fine through Ohio, usually get rerouted somewhere in PA/MD/WV.

 

[JHW]

The only time I'm not cleared as filed (which is usually direct to destination) is when I head east. Fine through Ohio, usually get rerouted somewhere in PA/MD/WV.

yep the midwest is great isn't it ? Last spring going from Peoria to west point graduation, filed direct destination just north of NYC, our clearance leaving peoria was simply "cleared to stewart as-filed maintain 15 thousand". My friend from florida in the right seat was in shock.

 

[gismo]

Miami

You might have a better chance to get "as filed" if you plan your route based on what others headed in the same direction are given. Foreflight has a feature that attempts to make this easier to determine although I've found that you usually need to start with a more popular destination in the same general direction and then replace that with your actual destination. You can also glean similar information from Flightaware and sometimes a call to the TRACON or center that serves your immediate airspace can provide preferred routes.

A long time ago I learned from experience that if I filed at or below 7000 MSL from my home base near Minneapolis I'd usually get something close to what I filed but filing higher would always involve a SID that didn't really work very well. I confirmed this with the watch desk at the MSP TRACON and since then I always file at 7000 even though I usually want to go cruise at 8 to 11 thousand (baring mega headwinds). Once I'm handed off to center or Rochester approach I ask for and always get the altitude I flight planned for and avoid the extra distance of a SID going the wrong way.

 

[the400kid]

You might have a better chance to get "as filed" if you plan your route based on what others headed in the same direction are given. Foreflight has a feature that attempts to make this easier to determine although I've found that you usually need to start with a more popular destination in the same general direction and then replace that with your actual destination. You can also glean similar information from Flightaware and sometimes a call to the TRACON or center that serves your immediate airspace can provide preferred routes.

Actually, I've been doing this using this same feature that appear in DUATS and Garmin Pilot and is how I've been selecting my routes. But alas, when the clearance comes through over the headset it's not what I thought it was going to be.

 

[JHW]

...you usually need to start with a more popular destination in the same general direction

are you telling me that one of our most frequent flights over the years, greenville SC to mcpherson KS, is not a popular route ? I'm shocked, just shocked

 

[Martymccasland]

So was talking with some IR friends. Not many of them fly through the "muck" so if you're IR do you have it so you can pop in the clouds/shoot approaches or both. Yes it's a good out but do you (the reader) enjoy shooting approaches or was the IR to get you through a layer.

Both really - to maximize the utility of owning a plane.

Prior to having an IR, clouds may as well have been made of concrete. With the IR, the only "concrete" in the sky is icing and thunderstorms. With enough money, you can further remove icing and only be limited by thunderstorms. So, in a word, it's all about utility.

 

[the400kid]

Both really - to maximize the utility of owning a plane.

"clouds may as well have been made of concrete"

Two outstanding quotes. I knew when I got my plane two years ago that I needed an IR if I wanted to go anywhere with a high level of confidence that I could actually make it.

The concrete wall is right on because I found myself stranded recently (before I got the rating) because the forecast didn't turn out as planned and a concrete wall presented itself right in front of me, forcing me to land and stay the night. What was frustrating was knowing that if I had the IR, I would have plowed through it as if it weren't there.