iPad vs. Nexus 7

[Jay Honeck]

The guys at RAM responded really fast, and gave me these part numbers. I am excited to use my new GPS next weekend!

Product Numbers:
RAM-HOL-UN8BU
RAM-B-201U
RAM-B-121BU

Download the trial version of Naviator. Until Garmin releases an update to Pilot, making it recognize the Nexus 7 as a tablet (not a phone), Naviator is the app of choice for aviation.

They say they are "working on it".

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[denverpilot]

GPSCity.com has a better website, they're a small Las Vegas based company, shipping is screaming fast, and they carry all this stuff. Just a plug for 'em... haven't had a bad experience with them yet, and have ordered stuff through them three times.

 

[loudbagel]

So I have had my Nexus for almost a week now, and I am still not really sure how I like it.

A little background, I am what you would call an Apple "Fanboy" I have an iPhone, iPad, Macbook Pro. I love my Apple products and I swear by them both at home and in the cockpit. The reason I bought my Nexus was I needed something small and cheap to take to school($700 iPad just too expensive to risk everyday exposure in a drug ridden public HS)

First impressions:

Boy this Nexus is small, I know its 7 inches but it is really small and light, even with its size and wieght the build quality seems good, fine for everyday use. The back is a dimpled texture which I am not a fan of at all, to me the only reason they did this style was to make it look different from an iPad like device. It has no rear facing camera and the front facing camera is very poor quality. The OS on the Nexus 4.1.1 Jellybean seems quite good and very stable ( the last android device I had ran 2.1) The screen seems fine when on the homepage but once you get into apps (even the ones that are optimized for this device) it seems sub-par. Web browsing is wonderful with the built in Chrome browser, it is very fast and displays web pages nicely. The google voice features are much improved and will kick siri's a$$ all day (in terms of speed to initialize and respond to voice, not in features)


I tried to come up with an objective comparison between my iPad (new iPad 16gb w/LTE) and the Nexus but it was not possible. It is like putting a skyhawk in a race with a Cessna 400 TTx. The price point is completely different between the devices and any comparison is unfair.

Screen- iPad
Speed- iPad
Camera- iPad
Size- Nexus
Build Q- iPad
General usage- iPad

In the Cockpit:

Im going to hold off my comparison until Garmin releases some updates to bring Pilot up to tablet mode on the Nexus. As of right now running Garmin Pilot on the nexus is terrible because it is just the blown up version of the phone app. I was very disappointed that my new Garmin Glo would not hook up to the ipad without downloading a separate app to sync them up, even then I had no idea if the Nexus was drawing it's location data from the internal or the BT GPS...

Anyways any questions feel free to ask.

 

[Jay Honeck]

I agree with your assessment, with a few caveats:

- Dimpled back. I really like it. I wear shorts daily on the island, and the Nexus spends a fair amount of time on my knee. Those dimples make it non-skid.

- No back facing camera. When I first got the N7 I agreed with you, but the more I used it, the more I realized that I would never take candid, snapshot pictures with a tablet anyway, so I'm glad they saved the expense, enabling such a low price point. As for the forward facing camera, it rocks for video conferencing, and is much higher quality than the web cams built into our laptops.

- Build quality. I'm not sure how you rated the iPad higher. They are both well built, well designed tablets. Short of drop testing them, I can determine no difference between the two.

- Finally, your speed assessment is puzzling. The N7 is measurably faster than iPad in every parameter. More to the point, to get a quad-core processor in a tablet for a smidge over 0.2 AMUs is simply amazing. The Nexus 7 is just incredibly fast, making the entire tablet experience more enjoyable.

I agree with you on Garmin's Pilot software. Until they release the tablet version for us, it's pretty sub-par. Try Naviator in the meantime. (If Naviator gets ADS-B weather display capability -- something they call a "top priority" -- I will stick with them.)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[tinerj]

One of the things I did not like about the iPad was that I could not prop it up on a book or other raised surface without it sliding off. The Nexus seems to grip the table so I don't have to keep it there with my thumb.

The iPad solution would be to put it in some kind of case or cover, a 'never ready' case, and in my mind that seems to negate the idea of making a tablet thin/ I prefer to have a bare, naked iPad or or other tablet so it is instantly available.

The Nexus 7 with the seven inch screen slips easily in my regular size pants pocket -- cargo pants not required. Which would also be true of the iPad 7 should it become available.

 

[Jay Honeck]

The iPad solution would be to put it in some kind of case or cover, a 'never ready' case, and in my mind that seems to negate the idea of making a tablet thin/ I prefer to have a bare, naked iPad or or other tablet so it is instantly available.

This is something that just kills me about tablets and phones. The manufacturers spend untold amounts of money making these products as sleek and thin as possible -- and then, invariably, everyone puts them in big, clunky "otter boxes" to protect them!

IMHO, this completely negates the designer's efforts, and makes them, well, big and clunky.

I admit I put a case and screen protector on my iPad -- that thing was so expensive, I just couldn't bear the thought of wrecking it. With the Nexus 7, however, at just over $200, I leave it gorgeously naked, with no screen protector to make swiping sticky, and no case to make it big and clunky. It's much nicer this way!

 

[LDJones]

I stumbled across this thread the same day I stumbled across the Nexus 7 at Office Max. The more I read the more intriqued I became by this little box....but let me back up....

By way of background, I am NOT an Apple Fanboy...far from it. But the day I used ForeFlight on an iPad was the day it was all over for me. I went immediately to Best Buy and plunked down $700+ for an iPad 2 and accessories and have been flying happily with ForeFlight ever since. In the past 13 months I have come to LOVE my iPad. I use it ALL the time, whether in the cockpit, or casual web browsing at home, or reading a book before bed. I track my flight time, instructing time and even bill my flight students via the iPad. It's the single more useful piece of computing technology I've purchased in the last 35 years of buying PCs.

Only complaint really is having to use an external GPS (I have the WiFi-only version) and sometimes it is a tad too big for the cockpit.

So after reading this thread I called to make sure OfficeMax still had one. I was going to buy it if they did. They said they did. I drove over a bit later and they really didn't. None of my normal technology sources had one....some were out of stock, and others didn't carry it (Best Buy).

Then I saw Jay's post about Wal-Mart having them....saw that at 7 am this morning! Called Wal-Mart and they did! I stopped there on my way to the airport.

I raced to the airport and started configuring it. Within five minutes it was up and running and all my e-mail and calendar appointments and most of my apps were up and running on it. I downloaded the Garmin Pilot app, then started downloading charts. I ended up holding my IFR x-c student up a bit while the charts slowly downloaded, but soon we were off.

So I flew a three-leg IFR x-c (beautiful VFR day) with my student using the iPad on one knee and the Nexus on the other.

My impressions: This thing is a keeper....along with my iPad. The Nexus will go on the yoke and the iPad will be a backup doing all the other things it does so well for me.

Screen brightness is virtually identical, at least at the level I typically run my iPad. The Nexus is definitely the closest to the iPad in the "buttery smoothness" department of all the Android tablets I've seen.

After the x-c flight I slipped it in my cargo shorts pilot and headed to my next primary student and used it there. Then back in my pocket for the next three flight lessons.

I love the light weight, the "feel" and the ergonomics. I still need to get used to Garmin Pilot. There are things I absolutely love about that app, and other things I dearly miss from ForeFlight. But time will tell. For now, I'll be licensing both.

So, thanks to Jay for spawning this thread AND for the Wal-Mart tip! I would have never looked there, and they didn't even have one on display had I wandered in. You had to look in the locked glass door cabinet and read the edges of boxes to realize they had them! I guess that's why they still have stock.

-Loren

 

[Mafoo]

I stumbled across this thread the same day I stumbled across the Nexus 7 at Office Max. The more I read the more intriqued I became by this little box....but let me back up....

By way of background, I am NOT an Apple Fanboy...far from it. But the day I used ForeFlight on an iPad was the day it was all over for me. I went immediately to Best Buy and plunked down $700+ for an iPad 2 and accessories and have been flying happily with ForeFlight ever since. In the past 13 months I have come to LOVE my iPad. I use it ALL the time, whether in the cockpit, or casual web browsing at home, or reading a book before bed. I track my flight time, instructing time and even bill my flight students via the iPad. It's the single more useful piece of computing technology I've purchased in the last 35 years of buying PCs.

Only complaint really is having to use an external GPS (I have the WiFi-only version) and sometimes it is a tad too big for the cockpit.

So after reading this thread I called to make sure OfficeMax still had one. I was going to buy it if they did. They said they did. I drove over a bit later and they really didn't. None of my normal technology sources had one....some were out of stock, and others didn't carry it (Best Buy).

Then I saw Jay's post about Wal-Mart having them....saw that at 7 am this morning! Called Wal-Mart and they did! I stopped there on my way to the airport.

I raced to the airport and started configuring it. Within five minutes it was up and running and all my e-mail and calendar appointments and most of my apps were up and running on it. I downloaded the Garmin Pilot app, then started downloading charts. I ended up holding my IFR x-c student up a bit while the charts slowly downloaded, but soon we were off.

So I flew a three-leg IFR x-c (beautiful VFR day) with my student using the iPad on one knee and the Nexus on the other.

My impressions: This thing is a keeper....along with my iPad. The Nexus will go on the yoke and the iPad will be a backup doing all the other things it does so well for me.

Screen brightness is virtually identical, at least at the level I typically run my iPad. The Nexus is definitely the closest to the iPad in the "buttery smoothness" department of all the Android tablets I've seen.

After the x-c flight I slipped it in my cargo shorts pilot and headed to my next primary student and used it there. Then back in my pocket for the next three flight lessons.

I love the light weight, the "feel" and the ergonomics. I still need to get used to Garmin Pilot. There are things I absolutely love about that app, and other things I dearly miss from ForeFlight. But time will tell. For now, I'll be licensing both.

So, thanks to Jay for spawning this thread AND for the Wal-Mart tip! I would have never looked there, and they didn't even have one on display had I wandered in. You had to look in the locked glass door cabinet and read the edges of boxes to realize they had them! I guess that's why they still have stock.

-Loren

Glad you're loving it. Just an FYI (if you didn't already catch it). Apple is most likely coming out with a smaller iPad in a few weeks. If all you disliked about the iPad is the size, and over time you end up missing foreflight more and more, that might be an option for you.

I am very much looking forward to a smaller iPad option, for both in and out of the cockpit.

 

[Henning]

Don't get me wrong, the screen is great, just not as bright as the iPad, which is really insanely bright when cranked up.

Your concept of insanely bright in a sunlight environment and mine are leagues apart.

 

[Mafoo]

Your concept of insanely bright in a sunlight environment and mine are leagues apart.

Bright and readable are not the same thing.

If I wrote a number with a sharpie on the side of a 100 watt clear lightbulb, turned it on an asked you to read me the number, I am sure you would find it difficult. However I don't expect you to describe the lightbulb as not bright.

The iPad is like a mirror and sucks in direct sunlight. It's because of materials, and not so much the brightness of the screen.

 

[Henning]

Bright and readable are not the same thing.

If I wrote a number with a sharpie on the side of a 100 watt clear lightbulb, turned it on an asked you to read me the number, I am sure you would find it difficult. However I don't expect you to describe the lightbulb as not bright.

The iPad is like a mirror and sucks in direct sunlight. It's because of materials, and not so much the brightness of the screen.

Readability in sunlight is my very issue, and don't tell me it's as good as it gets because I have multiple other devices, and have had for years, with perfectly legible LCD screens in direct sunlight from any angle. An iPad next to a G-500 or even a 696 will demonstrate my issue.

 

[Mafoo]

Readability in sunlight is my very issue, and don't tell me it's as good as it gets because I have multiple other devices, and have had for years, with perfectly legible LCD screens in direct sunlight from any angle. An iPad next to a G-500 or even a 696 will demonstrate my issue.

Not quite sure how me saying the iPad sucks in direct sunlight is telling you it's as good as it gets.

I am telling you if the iPad was twice as bright as it is now, it would still suck. It sucking has nothing to do with how bright the screen is, and everything to do with the reflective properties of the sheet of glass the screen is under.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Not quite sure how me saying the iPad sucks in direct sunlight is telling you it's as good as it gets.

I am telling you if the iPad was twice as bright as it is now, it would still suck. It sucking has nothing to do with how bright the screen is, and everything to do with the reflective properties of the sheet of glass the screen is under.

Very true. The very properties that make touch screens excellent make them horribly reflective and more difficult to read in direct sun.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Jay Honeck]

So, thanks to Jay for spawning this thread AND for the Wal-Mart tip! I would have never looked there, and they didn't even have one on display had I wandered in. You had to look in the locked glass door cabinet and read the edges of boxes to realize they had them! I guess that's why they still have stock.

-Loren

You're welcome! I love this tablet -- it has quickly become my "everything tool", which is what I always wanted my iPad to be. Newspapers, magazines, music, Facebook, PofA, car GPS, gmail, video conferencing, controlling my BluRay DVD player, TV guide, Netflix, weather, ALL fit in my pocket, but are large enough for old eyes.

And I never have to use iTunes again. That, alone, is worth the $240 bucks. Lol!

When Garmin releases their promised update for the Pilot software...OR, if Naviator adds the ability to see ADS-B weather...the Nexus will be perfect.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[X3 Skier]

For some reason, I can read my iPhone fairly well in the sun but the iPad is a different story. I have Zagg screen protectors on both. Probably the auto reflex to tilt the screen is easier for the phone.

In either case, they work fine for me. I use both in the cockpit as a primary and backup EFB, just like the Big Boys at American. And if the sun problem gets intolerable, I use paper backup charts.

The last Adroid device I had was OK but I like iOS better, primarily for the auto sync between the touch, phone and iPad.

I really don't understand the complaints I read in here and in several other places about iTunes since all I use it for is backing up the devices and even then, I could use the iCloud but choose not to do so.

Not trying to be argumentative but I would like to understand problems with iTunes.

What is the major objection? If I want apps, I go to the App Store just like I did with the Android Store / Google Play. If I want music, I get it wherever I want including those ancient thingys called CD's. I can put stuff on my Apple gizmos from many sources. If there's some problem I have not run across, let me know so I can continue to avoid it

Cheers

 

[LDJones]

Glad you're loving it. Just an FYI (if you didn't already catch it). Apple is most likely coming out with a smaller iPad in a few weeks. If all you disliked about the iPad is the size, and over time you end up missing foreflight more and more, that might be an option for you.

I am very much looking forward to a smaller iPad option, for both in and out of the cockpit.

Yes, I saw that...but unless they significantly drop the price and increase the feature set (built-in GPS), I think I will remain quite happy with my Nexus. Since I am an Android phone user, there are some advantages having additional capabilities in that camp, although the iPhone 5 may get some consideration.

-Loren

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm not sure I see the relevance. Does the comic imply that apple was the first company to assemble technologies to create a smart phone?

Is anyone here even claiming that they did? Again, relevance?

It's kind of a poke on the ol' fanboy vs. hater thing, which is going on in this thread and many others.

FWIW, Apple didn't invent the computer - They made it accessible for regular people. Apple didn't invent the smartphone - But they did make it MUCH better, and were the first ones to use a touchscreen and multi-touch gestures which are now at the heart of most smartphones, including Androids.

 

[wsuffa]

It's kind of a poke on the ol' fanboy vs. hater thing, which is going on in this thread and many others.

FWIW, Apple didn't invent the computer - They made it accessible for regular people. Apple didn't invent the smartphone - But they did make it MUCH better, and were the first ones to use a touchscreen and multi-touch gestures which are now at the heart of most smartphones, including Androids.

Not to be picky, but I think that Apple evolved technology that was already in the market. Palm, for example, had stylus-based touch-screen technology, Blackberry had integrated "smart" functions into phones, etc. If anything, Apple evolved those technologies into their devices. There's probably some other stuff from the market that I've forgotten. IIRC, the graphical interface came from PARC.

MS took some stuff from Apple, and Apple took some stuff from MS. Unix is in the game, too, despite the best efforts of SCO to stop it. Tablets themselves predate the iPad - both the MS/Toshiba tablets and the Newton.

Both companies have their successes and their failures. Both have taken ideas from others and improved them.

 

[Mafoo]

Not to be picky, but I think that Apple evolved technology that was already in the market. Palm, for example, had stylus-based touch-screen technology, Blackberry had integrated "smart" functions into phones, etc. If anything, Apple evolved those technologies into their devices. There's probably some other stuff from the market that I've forgotten. IIRC, the graphical interface came from PARC.

MS took some stuff from Apple, and Apple took some stuff from MS. Unix is in the game, too, despite the best efforts of SCO to stop it. Tablets themselves predate the iPad - both the MS/Toshiba tablets and the Newton.

Both companies have their successes and their failures. Both have taken ideas from others and improved them.

While I somewhat agree with this, it's worth noting that Apple is an inovation company, where MS is a reactionary company. Both are good, but they are not the same thing.

If Steve Jobs never lived, what you would be calling a computer or phone today would be very different. If Bill Gates had never lived, not much would be different. Gates had an impact in the computing world, but far less of one then Steve Jobs did.

 

[wsuffa]

While I somewhat agree with this, it's worth noting that Apple is an inovation company, where MS is a reactionary company. Both are good, but they are not the same thing.

I'd beg to differ - both innovated in their own way, but Apple copied an awful lot of what made it into their products (yes, they evolved it & combined it, but a lot of the "innovation" came from stuff others originally invented). I get the IP issues involved and the desire to "protect" market, but we are nowhere near done with patent litigation yet.

In a lot of ways, Apple has become like IBM was in the mainframe world.

If Steve Jobs never lived, what you would be calling a computer or phone today would be very different. If Bill Gates had never lived, not much would be different. Gates had an impact in the computing world, but far less of one then Steve Jobs did.

Well, seeing as how the original MS-DOS was invented by Gates, and that it out-marketed CP/M, I'd say it would be a lot different. Could CP/M evolved? Yep.

A lot of Apple's computer products are *nix based (as are a lot of Google's Android products). Did Apple integrate some of them? Yep. The iPhone was a phone device integrated with the iPod. Did they integrate them better than others? That's debatable. They certainly marketed them well, and they made them easier for a computer novice to use, at the same time they very much limited what you can do with them. MS developed a much more open system, allowing more applications while Apple was more closed and controlling. While that allowed Apple to maintain compatibility over a more limited number of devices, it limited the flexibility for others to innovate. That kept the lid on Apple for many years. It also meant that Apple could "force" end-of-life to their products (much like the planned obsolescence of the domestic automakers over the years).

Had Gates not lived, we'd be in a world where computing ability & workflow is defined solely by what Jobs thought you ought to do (as opposed to what you want or need to do. Both Apple and MS have their place - where Apple won the consumer battle was Gates' public persona. Take away the deification & worshiping of Jobs, and you end up in a similar place.

Apple is not the holy grail of where we are computing-wise. We'd be close to here even without Jobs: a lot of folks have had input, ranging from Compuserve to AOL to Bell Labs to PARC to Yahoo to Google. Several companies had come close, what they lacked was the "aura" of Apple. From the marketing aspect, Apple won (which is parallel to how IBM became a big name: by marketing well).

What is certain is that we'd be in a much different place if the folks at Bell Labs had never invented Unix, or if Motorola/Bell had never invented the cellphone. Or if Vince Cerf had never existed. Or if Al Gore the founders of the internet had locked it down the way Apple locks down their systems.

Again, I'm not saying that either side is the "winner" - but rather that each company has contributed and has it's uses. The intellectual property battles are just beginning. This is why Google bought Motorola (for the patents - and they're now filing legal action against Apple), and why Apple is suing Samsung (and by proxy, Google): you control the future of computing if you use IP battles to snuff out innovation by others.

 

[Mafoo]

Again, I'm not saying that either side is the "winner"

Well the first problem is looking at it as if there are sides. It's the evolution of computing, and not a MS vs Apple world. That's left for fanboys. Both "sides" are winners.

It all started with the Alto at PARC. Technology they were going to throw away. If not for Jobs, it would have died right there. He then created the Lisa computer off of it, and everyone said he was stupid.

When he was fired, he started NeXT, and created the NeXT operating system, and everyone said he was stupid. This was a revolutionary operating system.

NeXT, and how it manipulated text was part of the inspiration that started the WWW at CERN. Fun Fact: the roots of HTML come from the text formatting API of that system. The NeXT operating system, after Steve Jobs came back to Apple, was purchased my Apple and became OSX. It has evolved much from that time, but at its core, the NeXT operating system now runs on every mac, and the 410 million iOS devices in the world.

Here is a good way to think about it.

When Apple released the iPod, everyone thought they were stupid.
When they released the iPhone, everyone thought they were stupid.
When they released the iPad, everyone thought they were stupid.

When you release products that become devices no one wants to live without, yet at the time you release them no one thinks they even matter, your a visionary. Steve Jobs and Apple have done this many times. Microsoft and Bill Gates have not. It's not an opinion, or a comment on what I think if each man or there companies. It's just the way it is.

And FYI: Bill Gates didn't invent MS-DOS, he bought it from Seattle Computer Products. He did however (along with Paul Allen) write Basic for the Altair, and that was a big accomplishment.

Oh, and I have met both men. As a person I would have wanted to befriend, Bill Gates definitely wins.

 

[denverpilot]

Tesla beat 'em all to most of this, and doesn't even have a museum... which shows its not just genius and innovation that counts, but Marketing and ruthless business practices at the expense of your competitor. Being ahead of your time just gets you a penniless death after long court battles. The guys not innovating have more time to market and run their businesses. Innovation takes lots of time.

About all that watching tech "leadership" has taught me since the 8-bit days is that you can make it "small" for a short time and survive on your product's merits, but to make it big requires smashing everything in sight when your product falls behind into mediocrity. You just need a bigger bank account than the next guy to hire piles of lawyers. See Apple vs Samsung right now, for one continuing example.

And if the current state of computing 30+ years in -- were as good as it should be, I wouldn't have a job.

Since my job is to fix all the broken ones so they go back to cranking out cash by the pound for their owners...

I'll be patching machines at 01:00 tomorrow night to meet some arbitrary "security" requirements and putting over 300 updates from the upstream vendor released in one QUARTER on them. Here haw. High quality code there... And it doesn't matter much which vendor, they're all patching the same dumb mistakes.

 

[wsuffa]

Well the first problem is looking at it as if there are sides. It's the evolution of computing, and not a MS vs Apple world. That's left for fanboys. Both "sides" are winners.

It all started with the Alto at PARC. Technology they were going to throw away. If not for Jobs, it would have died right there. He then created the Lisa computer off of it, and everyone said he was stupid.

When he was fired, he started NeXT, and created the NeXT operating system, and everyone said he was stupid. This was a revolutionary operating system.

NeXT, and how it manipulated text was part of the inspiration that started the WWW at CERN. Fun Fact: the roots of HTML come from the text formatting API of that system. The NeXT operating system, after Steve Jobs came back to Apple, was purchased my Apple and became OSX. It has evolved much from that time, but at its core, the NeXT operating system now runs on every mac, and the 410 million iOS devices in the world.

Here is a good way to think about it.

When Apple released the iPod, everyone thought they were stupid.
When they released the iPhone, everyone thought they were stupid.
When they released the iPad, everyone thought they were stupid.

When you release products that become devices no one wants to live without, yet at the time you release them no one thinks they even matter, your a visionary. Steve Jobs and Apple have done this many times. Microsoft and Bill Gates have not. It's not an opinion, or a comment on what I think if each man or there companies. It's just the way it is.

And FYI: Bill Gates didn't invent MS-DOS, he bought it from Seattle Computer Products. He did however (along with Paul Allen) write Basic for the Altair, and that was a big accomplishment.

Oh, and I have met both men. As a person I would have wanted to befriend, Bill Gates definitely wins.

You are entitled to your view.

You are absolutely incorrect that they were considered "stupid" when they released devices. Or that they adopted "cast-off" technologies (Unix wasn't "cast-off" and it was the basis of NeXT....) There is no question that if it weren't for competing items - some they bought, some they copied - that Apple would not be what it is today. And there is also no question that if Apple would be more open and less controlling of what you are allowed to do and/or how you are allowed to program your device that computing would be in a much different place (I still remember when Apple went after the "clone" makers).

It's rarely so simple as "Jobs is the only reason computing is what it is". It took a lot more folks in a lot more places to make it happen. MS got distracted by the anti-trust lawsuits that Apple has largely been able to avoid. So far.

Apple needs Google/Android to be successful, as they needed MS to be successful. Google/Android needs Apple to be successful.

I'd posit that the computer landscape would look much more like the Bell System (before the breakup) if Apple/Jobs were the primary reason we are where we are today.

 

[rpadula]

Tesla beat 'em all to most of this, and doesn't even have a museum...

Funny you should mention that, Nate.

The Oatmeal is fundraising for a Tesla museum.

Given how successful he was with his last fundraiser, I bet this one is a winner too.

 

[Mafoo]

You are entitled to your view.

You are absolutely incorrect that they were considered "stupid" when they released devices. Or that they adopted "cast-off" technologies (Unix wasn't "cast-off" and it was the basis of NeXT....) There is no question that if it weren't for competing items - some they bought, some they copied - that Apple would not be what it is today. And there is also no question that if Apple would be more open and less controlling of what you are allowed to do and/or how you are allowed to program your device that computing would be in a much different place (I still remember when Apple went after the "clone" makers).

It's rarely so simple as "Jobs is the only reason computing is what it is". It took a lot more folks in a lot more places to make it happen. MS got distracted by the anti-trust lawsuits that Apple has largely been able to avoid. So far.

Apple needs Google/Android to be successful, as they needed MS to be successful. Google/Android needs Apple to be successful.

I'd posit that the computer landscape would look much more like the Bell System (before the breakup) if Apple/Jobs were the primary reason we are where we are today.

Steve Jobs is not a god, or the entire reason we have what we have. That's the realm of Alan Turing.

I would not even put Steve Jobs as the #1 most influential people in modern computing. That title belongs to Dan Bricklin. For those that don't know, he invented VisiCalc, the modern spreadsheet, in 1979 (ironically on an Apple II). This was the first tool that made personal computers more then a toy. Every business, for the first time, had a legitimate reason to want a computer.

I would also put Robert Metcalfe on that list above Jobs. But Jobs would be on the list. Gates wouldn't even make it.

Gates greatest contribution was to bring technology to the masses. To take what others have done, and package and sell it in a way that it was accessible to everyone. While this is a very valuable contribution to computing, if he didn't do it, someone else simply would have.

What the other names listed in this post did (including Jobs), was push computing forward.

 

[denverpilot]

Funny you should mention that, Nate.

The Oatmeal is fundraising for a Tesla museum.

Given how successful he was with his last fundraiser, I bet this one is a winner too.

Heh. It was a test to see if anyone had noticed. Go Oatmeal!

PoA geeks never disappoint.

Stories of how all of Colorado Springs shook when he conducted his electromagnetism experiments with the PLANET.... from many many miles outside of town, are well known around here.

Decades ahead of his time.

 

[Mafoo]

Tesla beat 'em all to most of this, and doesn't even have a museum...

Tesla was an incredibly brilliant man. But not really in the world of computers. Obviously power is required to use computers, but to credit him with what has been accomplished in the computer industry is a little to many leaps of invention for me.

 

[denverpilot]

Tesla was an incredibly brilliant man. But not really in the world of computers. Obviously power is required to use computers, but to credit him with what has been accomplished in the computer industry is a little to many leaps of invention for me.

It all builds from one knowledge pool. Nothing new under the Sun. These "leaders" all just rip off each other's ideas and enhance them.

Gates' "contribution" to computing at the start of his company was that he was the first guy ballsy enough to sell IBM vaporware that didn't even exist the day they signed the contract.

That set the business tactics for software, ever since. Demos are mockups that don't work, version 1.0 never does what the customer really wanted, and you might have something stable but not making any revenue off of it by version 3 or 4. Then it's time to pronounce it dead instead of fixing it, and start over with the version 0 demos in front of wowed execs. Haha.

 

[Mafoo]

That set the business tactics for software, ever since. Demos are mockups that don't work, version 1.0 never does what the customer really wanted, and you might have something stable but not making any revenue off of it by version 3 or 4. Then it's time to pronounce it dead instead of fixing it, and start over with the version 0 demos in front of wowed execs. Haha.

Not sure if Ironic is the right word...

But funny that you write that on a computer, that took hundreds of thousands of lines of code working property, from dozens of companies. This is just so you could type it. Form the firmware in your display, to the drivers in your mouse and your keyboard, to the operating system. Hell, the hundreds of lines of code that keeps your fan going so the whole thing doesn't melt needs to work.

This is all before you click the "Submit Reply". The dozens, if not hundreds, of computers that need to send those packets of data from your computer to the database they sit in is mind boggling in it's own right. The millions of lines of code that has to all just work, and keep working, for the internet to be what it is.

Your post, is proof in itself of its inaccuracies.

 

[tinerj]

Well, seeing as how the original MS-DOS was invented by Gates, and that it out-marketed CP/M, I'd say it would be a lot different. Could CP/M evolved? Yep.

Bill Gates paid $50,000 for Seattle DOS a.k.a 86-DOS and a bunch of other names. The first issue of MS-DOS was identical to Seattle DOS.

I had a machine that had Five Star DOS (another name for 86-DOS). People who knew MS DOS could use it without needing to make a single change.

 

[LDJones]

If Steve Jobs never lived, what you would be calling a computer or phone today would be very different. If Bill Gates had never lived, not much would be different. Gates had an impact in the computing world, but far less of one then Steve Jobs did.

Ok, now that's one of the dumber things I've ever heard. Gates made possible the commoditization of personal computers. When the CP/M boys ruled the roost and told IBM they wanted $60 per license, Gates had the vision to snap up a tiny semi-competitive product and license it for 60 cents a copy! The rest is history. We wouldn't have how many billion PCs but for his vision.

Jobs created the computers for the 8%. Gates put a computer on every business desktop and in the homes of the other 92%.

Jobs was creative genius. Gates was business genius. Both have significantly changed the world in which we live.

Loren

 

[jesse]

FYI tried to use a Nexus 7 running Naviator in my Flybaby today and gave up rather quickly -- mostly because I found the software extremely unintuitive. I very quickly switched to Foreflight on my iPhone.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'd beg to differ - both innovated in their own way, but Apple copied an awful lot of what made it into their products (yes, they evolved it & combined it, but a lot of the "innovation" came from stuff others originally invented).

Had Apple not "copied" the idea of the GUI from Xerox PARC, our computers today would probably have a VERY different look.

I put "copied" in quotes because while the idea of the GUI was invented at PARC, Apple did contribute significantly to the concept. For example, PARC's version didn't have files and folders on a desktop - That was Apple's doing.

They certainly marketed them well, and they made them easier for a computer novice to use,

And that right there is key: Accessibility to the masses. And it doesn't just benefit the masses.

Example: When the iPhone was announced, EdFred posted here on PoA that his phone could do everything the iPhone could do. When I thought about it for a bit, I realized that *mine could too!* And I'd even purchased the particular phone I had at the time because of some of those features, but I NEVER USED THEM because it was such a pain to actually use them that I didn't bother. I walked into an AT&T store the first day the iPhone came out and I've never looked back - And now, I actually use those features that I wanted my old Sony Ericsson phone for.

Apple was more closed and controlling. While that allowed Apple to maintain compatibility over a more limited number of devices, it limited the flexibility for others to innovate.

Are we still talking computers? What did Apple do that was so "closed and controlling" that "limited the flexibility for others to innovate?" If we're talking iOS I could agree, but I don't think Apple was nearly that bad when it came to computers...

From the marketing aspect, Apple won (which is parallel to how IBM became a big name: by marketing well).

Which is hilarious to us long-time Apple followers, because for the longest time, Apple couldn't market their way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

When he was fired, he started NeXT, and created the NeXT operating system, and everyone said he was stupid. This was a revolutionary operating system.

The NeXT operating system, after Steve Jobs came back to Apple, was purchased my Apple and became OSX. It has evolved much from that time, but at its core, the NeXT operating system now runs on every mac, and the 410 million iOS devices in the world.

Yup... And to this day, the function calls you make to OS X routines start with "NS" (ie "NSTextView") as in NeXTStep, the NeXT operating system.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Not sure if Ironic is the right word...

But funny that you write that on a computer, that took hundreds of thousands of lines of code working property, from dozens of companies. This is just so you could type it. Form the firmware in your display, to the drivers in your mouse and your keyboard, to the operating system. Hell, the hundreds of lines of code that keeps your fan going so the whole thing doesn't melt needs to work.

This is all before you click the "Submit Reply". The dozens, if not hundreds, of computers that need to send those packets of data from your computer to the database they sit in is mind boggling in it's own right. The millions of lines of code that has to all just work, and keep working, for the internet to be what it is.

Your post, is proof in itself of its inaccuracies.

The more you learn about how computers really work, the more mind-boggling it is that the darn things work at all.

For example, a hard drive is an amazing feat of physics and technology. So is an integrated circuit. These are things we mostly take for granted today, but it's taken us many decades of work on the part of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people to get to the point where we are today. The many standards and subsystems involved in making a computer have taken an insane amount of work to develop.

 

[Mafoo]

Ok, now that's one of the dumber things I've ever heard. Gates made possible the commoditization of personal computers. When the CP/M boys ruled the roost and told IBM they wanted $60 per license, Gates had the vision to snap up a tiny semi-competitive product and license it for 60 cents a copy! The rest is history. We wouldn't have how many billion PCs but for his vision.

Jobs created the computers for the 8%. Gates put a computer on every business desktop and in the homes of the other 92%.

Jobs was creative genius. Gates was business genius. Both have significantly changed the world in which we live.

Loren

My opinion was, and still is, that if Gates had not done what he did, someone else would have come along and done it. He effectively solved a math problem. A thousand people could have come along and solved the exact same problem the exact same way. Without Jobs, we would have computers, but they would be very different beasts.

What we think about a computer being today (bitmapped display, mouse, etc) is because of Jobs vision. Yes PARC invented it. But unlike most things "copied", if Jobs had not taken the technology and done something with it, it would have died. The only reason PARC let him have it, is because they had decided they were not going to do anything with it. It's not like so many other companies who take already successful ideas, and copy them.

If not for Jobs, a tablet computer would still be the wildly unsuccessful windows tablets that have been around for 10 years of so. Not what we think of today when we think tablet computer.

And your a lot smarter then me, if the first time you saw the iPhone, you didn't say to yourself "a phone with no buttons or stylus, and just a touch screen you use your finger with? What are the smoking over there at Apple?"

This is what made him what he was. He saw the future, and realized it, where no one else could.

Love or hate Apple, and love or hate Jobs, you can't take that away from him.

He was one of a kind (and not always in a good way)

P.S. To add some perspective, I am a Microsoft Software Engineer. I make my living developing software in the Microsoft echo system. I love Microsoft. I am not an Apple fanboy. I am a computer fanboy, so I am pro both companies, as both companies have made the world I work in so much better.


EDIT: I don't work for Microsoft, I make my living developing software using there tools. Not sure if it came across that I did.

 

[wsuffa]

FYI tried to use a Nexus 7 running Naviator in my Flybaby today and gave up rather quickly -- mostly because I found the software extremely unintuitive. I very quickly switched to Foreflight on my iPhone.

Yeah, I've been trying it on my Nexus & find parts of it maddening. (What number "L" chart do I need for West Virginia?... if you're going to do that, it's easy enough to put an index in the software).

Still, I like the idea of having a backup to Foreflight that runs different software/database on a different machine.

 

[LDJones]

My opinion was, and still is, that if Gates had not done what he did, someone else would have come along and done it. He effectively solved a math problem. A thousand people could have come along and solved the exact same problem the exact same way. Without Jobs, we would have computers, but they would be very different beasts.

What we think about a computer being today (bitmapped display, mouse, etc) is because of Jobs vision. Yes PARC invented it. But unlike most things "copied", if Jobs had not taken the technology and done something with it, it would have died. The only reason PARC let him have it, is because they had decided they were not going to do anything with it. It's not like so many other companies who take already successful ideas, and copy them.

You may not be an Apple Fanboy but that's a delusional Apple Fanboy position. There were many looking at graphical interfaces at the time, so it was ONLY a matter of time before any one of a number would have taken the next logical step in interface evolution. Jobs saw what others had envisioned at PARC and ran with it. If he hadn't, others would have.

To think we'd still be typing DOS commands but for Jobs is laughable.

 

[Mafoo]

To think we'd still be typing DOS commands but for Jobs is laughable.

I never said that. In fact what we have today might have been better without Jobs. but there is no question it would have been different.

Without Gates, it would look about the same.

 

[L.Adamson]

I finally got one, a few days ago..........at Staples. Size wise, I really like it. And as far as that "brightness" report...........perhaps they kept it on "automatic" brightness. I'm using mine, just slightly above the half setting, and it certainly seems as bright as my wifes Ipad2. As has been mentioned before, neither the Nexus7 or Ipad2 comes close to my Garmin 696 in readibility with varying cockpit sunslight conditions. Just tried that today. With the Garmin, you never even have to think about a glare problem, or the exact angle, or shade.

L.Adamson