Interesting Checkride Question #2

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
DPE: "So, what aircraft are we going to do our flight portion in today?"

Airman: "It's a Cessna 182P, 1975 model. And except for a few avionics upgrade, and a new interior, it's pretty much the way it was from the factory."

DPE: "Good. Can tell me about the anti-ice systems you have on your aircraft?"
 
Either alternate air source if FI, or carb heated intake air if carbed. Presumably, also has heated pitot to maintain clear air path to the airspeed sensing pitot tube.
 
Intentionally a bad question. I hate those. It's one that you'll know the answer(s) to, but is asked in such a way as to "make you think" (which, on a check ride, just serves to rattle you even more than you are without adding anything to the teaching experience).

Why? Because, imho, an "anti-ice" system is only found on aircraft I'll never be able to afford. I do NOT have "anti ice systems". I do not think of what little I have that way at all. I do have a heated pitot tube and an alternate static source (but that's not specific to ice). What about the window defroster? Is that anti-ice? Or just anti-condensing-water-vapor?My POH says to turn OFF cabin heat until engine operation is normal, says nothing about the defroster but I'll assume same deal so an anti ice system you can't turn on isn't much of an anti ice system.

Fine. Disagree. Why wasn't the question asked as "What would you do if pireps along your route were indicating icing?" "What would you do if you noticed ice build up on your aircraft?"

Why, gee, gosh. I guess I'd turn on my anti icing systems.

No. I'd start looking for a way out. Getting out of the ice, or not getting in the ice in the first place is the only anti ice "system" I'm aware I possess.
 
You're not the first to get that oddly stated question. The answer depends on your plane but typically consists of one or all of the following; heated pitot tube, heated stall warning tab, carb heat, and windshield defrost (which I think is a stretch). Typical cessnas and Cherokees are not designed for icing conditions. Those heated systems are for temporary and unknown situations. I have a hard time calling them anti ice systems rather than a precautionary system to keep things working properly while you figure out a back up plan. That being said, even in larger airplanes, we don't stay in the ice.
 
Tristar said:
You're not the first to get that oddly stated question. The answer depends on your plane but typically consists of one or all of the following; heated pitot tube, heated stall warning tab, carb heat, and windshield defrost (which I think is a stretch). Typical cessnas and Cherokees are not designed for icing conditions. Those heated systems are for temporary and unknown situations. I have a hard time calling them anti ice systems rather than a precautionary system to keep things working properly while you figure out a back up plan. That being said, even in larger airplanes, we don't stay in the ice.
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I got the same question back in the 80s when I got my private. I answered carb heat, heated pitot tube and defroster for the 172 I took the test in. The examiner was happy with that answer.
 
In many of the pipers, heater and defroster are one and the same, a shroud around the muffler. Warm/hot air is routed thru hoses from the shroud. It's also one of the first places to check for CO leaks into the cabin.
 
ANTI-ice, heated pitot

Unless you have some fancy other stuff onboard
 
This question can't be omitted. It's both a Special Emphasis item and part of Area II, Task A -- even if the answer is "none" (although as noted above, even your mostly-stock 182 has some things you can use to help if you inadvertently stumble into icing).
 
I had the same question on my checkride.
Jordon has it right.
 
Answer:

Pitot Heat
Carb Heat
Defroster

(Question was passed on by a pilot buddy who just did his IA check ride Friday. His examiner asked it. Took me a sec thinking, "The 182 isn't FIKI equipped...oh... wait a tic...we do have equipment that can melt ice when it accumulates at those systems.")
 
James331 said:
ANTI-ice, heated pitot

Unless you have some fancy other stuff onboard
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Carb heat will either remove existing ice in the throat or stop ice from forming. I vote anti-ice.
 
docmirror said:
Carb heat will either remove existing ice in the throat or stop ice from forming. I vote anti-ice.
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The question is structural icing, and that's not what the carb ice is about. However, carb heat bypasses the possibly ice-choked front-mounted air filter on something like a carbureted 172/182, allowing the engine to breathe again - and that's more de-ice since it counters the effect but doesn't prevent formation.
 
Ron Levy said:
The question is structural icing, and that's not what the carb ice is about. However, carb heat bypasses the possibly ice-choked front-mounted air filter on something like a carbureted 172/182, allowing the engine to breathe again - and that's more de-ice since it counters the effect but doesn't prevent formation.
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No it isn't: "Good. Can tell me about the anti-ice systems you have on your aircraft?"

Literal quote. The carb/throttle plate is on the aircraft.

Also, you need to learn something about how and where ice forms.

<edit; I just noticed I covered the alternate air source in post 2 anyway. pfft :rolleyes2: >
 
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I don't think the DPE was worried about justifying anti-ice vs. de-ice equipment. I think he was more looking for the big picture of where ice is going to form on the airplane(any part of the airplane), what you have to fight it, and what you are gonna do when a situation comes up that warrants using it. Who cares if you call it anti-ice, de-ice, or "stuff that heats **** up."
 
And this is why every good woman pilot brings an industrial strength hair dryer along. You thought it was just to make us look pretty. ;)
 
I got asked this during my IA oral. Forgot the defroster and he said only one person got his "extra credit" answer of adjustable pitch (constant speed) prop. Apparently, you can (sometimes) adjust the pitch back and forth to shed some ice. As I haven't flown a CS prop yet (but as soon as I can find a good option I start CPL training), I never gave that any consideration.
 
docmirror said:
No it isn't: "Good. Can tell me about the anti-ice systems you have on your aircraft?"

Literal quote. The carb/throttle plate is on the aircraft.

Also, you need to learn something about how and where ice forms.

<edit; I just noticed I covered the alternate air source in post 2 anyway. pfft :rolleyes2: >
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It's all about context, and the context of that question is structural icing, not carb ice. I've sat through enough IR orals to know for sure on that.
 
Henning said:
Is the heated stall switch only a FIKI requirement?
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I know of no requirement for a heated stall switch for a Part 23 aircraft other than FIKI certification. Not sure if it's a general requirement for Part 25 transport category or not.
 
Do not confuse anti-ice (prevention) from deice (removal after it happens).

Pitot heat and the defroster is the only anti-ice that exists on a stock 182.

I'd argue alternate air (and alternate static) isn't either one of those. Just ways to deal with icing but neither prevents nor removes it.

Carb heat deals with ice but not structural so usually it is not included in these either.
 
flyingron said:
I'd argue alternate air (and alternate static) isn't either one of those. Just ways to deal with icing but neither prevents nor removes it.
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Technically correct, but in the context of this part of the IR practical test, they want to make sure you know that if you're flying an aircraft with a forward-mounted air filter (such as a carbureted 172), pulling the carb heat knob or alternate air handle can revive an engine choking due to ice blockage of the air filter during flight in structural icing conditions. Might not prevent or remove the ice, but it will solve the particular problem caused by the ice, and that's the key to surviving the experience.

So if you take the IR practical test in such a plane, be ready to give that as part of your answer to that question unless you like really dragging out the oral as the examiner teases that answer from you before moving on.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Intentionally a bad question. I hate those. It's one that you'll know the answer(s) to, but is asked in such a way as to "make you think" (which, on a check ride, just serves to rattle you even more than you are without adding anything to the teaching experience).

Why? Because, imho, an "anti-ice" system is only found on aircraft I'll never be able to afford. I do NOT have "anti ice systems". I do not think of what little I have that way at all. I do have a heated pitot tube and an alternate static source (but that's not specific to ice). What about the window defroster? Is that anti-ice? Or just anti-condensing-water-vapor?My POH says to turn OFF cabin heat until engine operation is normal, says nothing about the defroster but I'll assume same deal so an anti ice system you can't turn on isn't much of an anti ice system.

Fine. Disagree. Why wasn't the question asked as "What would you do if pireps along your route were indicating icing?" "What would you do if you noticed ice build up on your aircraft?"

Why, gee, gosh. I guess I'd turn on my anti icing systems.

No. I'd start looking for a way out. Getting out of the ice, or not getting in the ice in the first place is the only anti ice "system" I'm aware I possess.
Click to expand...

Agree. I dislike questions that intentionally lead your mind in the wrong direction.

That said, I've heard that very same question asked a half-dozen times over the years. :rolleyes2:
 
petrolero said:
That said, I've heard that very same question asked a half-dozen times over the years. :rolleyes2:
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I hear that question at least that many times every year on IR tests, and the context is always made clear enough to understand what the examiner is looking for. ;)
 
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