Interested in getting my PPL - help?

On finding an instructor, if the field has an FBO that caters to the business aircraft, go visit there and talk to their pilots. Tell them you're a new student seeking independent instructors that teach in their airplane. As you meet other pilots based in the field, ask the same question and build your network. If you start hearing the same names again and again in a positive light, these will be the instructors to reach out too.

And call the tower to arrange a tour. Not only will it be a fun and informative visit, but it gives you the chance to ask if they know of active independent instructors.
 
AggieMike88 said:
And call the tower to arrange a tour. Not only will it be a fun and informative visit, but it gives you the chance to ask if they know of active independent instructors.
Click to expand...

They will only know instructors if they are pilots themselves. Most controllers aren't.

They will, however, know all the regular tail numbers, including whether the pilots always have Korean accents, and where they park.
 
AggieMike88 said:
You can actually get all you need to pass the written knowledge test and the practical exams from the free books supplied on the FAA website. Just search for the Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/ and the Airplane Flying Handbook http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/airplane_handbook/

If you think you need/want something for the PPL written exam prep, then the Prepware series from www.ASA2FLY.com is a good product.

And get the ASA FAR/AIM app for your phone or tablet. Mucho better than the paper version. You need it anyhow, but not having to lug around 5lbs of paper and not needing to purchase replacements when new info is published makes having the app worth it.

Anyway, start with the free books and get to reading those. Then later you can decide if investing in a Gleim or King kit is worth the money.
Click to expand...

I have the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge...but I would prefer to learn visually (like the King course) than to read books. I get very distracted with reading (it takes me a while to read through things) and don't learn as well that way. Obviously I don't mind doing the reading, but would prefer other methods if they are available.

Also...I noticed most ground school classes don't include the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge - doesn't this book include a lot of info not needed for the written? Not that it is bad to have the extra knowledge I am just curious.

I took a graduate level Aero-System Dynamics class in my M.E. schooling and I thought it was pretty cool they touch on some of the stuff we covered in that book.
 
Last edited:
Sent OP a couple of PHX area CFI recommendations from friends who fly there. Hope it helps sir.
 
Also...I noticed most ground school classes don't include the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge - doesn't this book include a lot of info not needed for the written? Not that it is bad to have the extra knowledge I am just curious.
Click to expand...
Most of the primary training textbooks have the same info, just different words and sequence. And if you watched the videos, you would be shown the same info, just with more photos and a narrator. But the point is that the PHAK is one of the core books....and it's available for free.
 
Gotcha...I bought the book version as I didn't want to print off the PDF version or read it off my computer. I've been reading it a little at a time.
 
I have the print copies for the same reason. And you can highlight and add sticky notes to your heart's content.

Here is an initial quiz for you (and no fair for the PoA gang to answer before CC268 does)...

  1. What makes an airplane turn? (Hint: twisting the yoke is not the answer)
  2. Why is back pressure on the yoke or stick needed in a turn?
  3. What is a stall and what causes it?
  4. Once you are in flight, straight and level, and are trimmed properly so the airplane will fly "hands off the controls" and not climb or descend, what happens if you add more power? Reduce power? When in a descent, will your airspeed increase or decrease?
  5. The Cessna you are training in is held together by hundreds of rivets. What is type of drag are these rivets contributing to?
  6. Name the four parts of a standard traffic pattern.
  7. What purpose do the flaps serve?
 
CC268 said:
Hey guys! Sorry I haven't been on here recently.

I got my medical certificate today - I had no issues getting it. Unfortunately Westwind told me they have a 5-6 month wait time...however I am talking to Jon (the Chief Flight instructor over there) as he gave me his card and asked me to call him. I still haven't heard back from him, so we will see what happens.

I actually got a recommendation for an instructor through a friend of my dad's. Unfortunately he recently acquired a new job where he will be gone 2 weeks at a time. Awesome guy though and a GREAT pilot - I am really disappointed that his availability won't be good.

I actually went on an intro flight with the instructor mentioned above in his Decathlon (I will try to get a photo up later). It was a blast! I logged an hour and practiced coordinated turns, steep turns, touch and goes (of course he did the work, I just got a feeling for it with the landings), etc. He also did a demonstration of what you would do if the engine failed - he demonstrated a forward slip (I think that is what it is called)...that was very cool! I may do some flying in his plane here and there too as it is a tail dragger and a little more difficult to fly than a 172. Of course, I plan on doing my main instruction in a 172 once I find an instructor and an available plane.

Anyways...still in search of an instructor and plane - I may have to go to Glendale or Scottsdale, which is a bit of a shame since they aren't the most convenient airports for me.

Cool plane Robert!
Click to expand...

There other options on DVT as well. There used to be a good number of high time very experienced pro pilots with a plane and a CFI ticket that instruct, I'm sure there are still a few.
 
CC268 said:
I have the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge...but I would prefer to learn visually (like the King course) than to read books. I get very distracted with reading (it takes me a while to read through things) and don't learn as well that way. Obviously I don't mind doing the reading, but would prefer other methods if they are available.

Also...I noticed most ground school classes don't include the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge - doesn't this book include a lot of info not needed for the written? Not that it is bad to have the extra knowledge I am just curious.

I took a graduate level Aero-System Dynamics class in my M.E. schooling and I thought it was pretty cool they touch on some of the stuff we covered in that book.
Click to expand...

There are two ways to study to pass the written. One is to study and learn the information, the other is to study and learn the test questions and their answers.
*CAUTION While the FAA publishes the test questions, they do not publish the test answers. The answers provided in study guides are provided by the author and may or may not be correct.*

If you look on the FAA's Pilot Resource's page, you will find alongside the PHAK several other texts free for download. Within these texts you will find the answer to every question on every test the FAA will give you, because those are the texts that the FAA hands the federal test making agency in Kansas and says, "Here, make us a pilot test from this information." The people who write the test may or may not know the first thing about aviation.

While not the most enthralling books to read, there is very little information in them superfluous to a pilot's needed knowledge base, if fact they constitute the bare minimum of what you should know by the end of the ratings process.

While it requires more effort in the beginning, in the long run, your best educational value is to just bite the bullet and learn the material rather than the test, that way you can always answer the question regardless.
 
Another good tip is to buy a copy of MS Flight Simulator X or X-Plane and a joystick rudder pedal setup. It is more useful later on for instruments but gives you idea of how to decipher the panel and very helpful.
 
Blueangel said:
Another good tip is to buy a copy of MS Flight Simulator X or X-Plane and a joystick rudder pedal setup. It is more useful later on for instruments but gives you idea of how to decipher the panel and very helpful.
Click to expand...
No sim captures the feeling of the controls in flight, not the sensations, though. It'll be a good instrument trainer, though.
 
Blueangel said:
Another good tip is to buy a copy of MS Flight Simulator X or X-Plane and a joystick rudder pedal setup. It is more useful later on for instruments but gives you idea of how to decipher the panel and very helpful.
Click to expand...

Disagree with this for primary training. Too easy to learn bad habits that become expensive to unwind in th aircraft. "How to decipher" the panel comes with regular flight experience and the books already discussed. Additionally, primary students need to be eyes outside for most of the flight.
 
Blueangel said:
Another good tip is to buy a copy of MS Flight Simulator X or X-Plane and a joystick rudder pedal setup. It is more useful later on for instruments but gives you idea of how to decipher the panel and very helpful.
Click to expand...

Actually already have X-Plane and a yoke and throttle quadrant. Waiting on rudder pedals - wouldn't expect this to be my primary training as of now obviously
 
Been a bit busy lately and haven't been looking around too much...going to get back at here soon.

Westwind is officially off the list as they aren't taking students until mid 2016
 
MID? wow!

But that's not unusual for an outfit focusing on "career" pilots or training foreign nationals.

Keep asking about the local area and you'll find someone.

--------------------

Another idea, sign up at www.faasafety.gov and attend some of the local WINGS seminars that are offered. These are a no cost educational opportunities where pilots of all experiences gather. Perhaps you might gain an instructor lead from those gatherings. And learn something useful as well :)
 
CC268 said:
Been a bit busy lately and haven't been looking around too much...going to get back at here soon.

Westwind is officially off the list as they aren't taking students until mid 2016
Click to expand...

Its so wild the disparity between cities. They seem to have a hard time keeping two planes booked where I live, and its the only game in town(that I know of).

I'll keep it to myself, I still have to finish. :yes:
 
CC268 said:
Been a bit busy lately and haven't been looking around too much...going to get back at here soon.

Westwind is officially off the list as they aren't taking students until mid 2016
Click to expand...

There are plenty of other options around DVT, go walk the hangars on a weekend and talk to people, they'll get you squared away.
 
jimbilly said:
Its so wild the disparity between cities. They seem to have a hard time keeping two planes booked where I live, and its the only game in town(that I know of).

I'll keep it to myself, I still have to finish. :yes:
Click to expand...

Westwind is a major 141 school with big foreign training programs aimed at the children of wealthy Indian and Chinese parents. That's really the backbone of the US training industry. Pt. 61 schools are not doing quite so well.
 
Henning said:
Westwind is a major 141 school with big foreign training programs aimed at the children of wealthy Indian and Chinese parents. That's really the backbone of the US training industry. Pt. 61 schools are not doing quite so well.
Click to expand...

Actually Westwind here in AZ is all Korean and across the way is the Chinese at Transpac ;)

Anyways...I am sure I will find someone shortly. Funny...a lot of the guys I fly RC planes with are actual pilots as well so I have had a few references from them as well.
 
While you're looking, get a head start on the studying. If nothing else, start reading the PHAK - Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge. Not all the chapters are applicable to private, but most are.
 
Yeah I have slowly been getting through the Pilot Handbook
 
Not yet...a lot of the basic aerodynamics and even advanced aerodynamics I am very familiar with from my engineering schooling. Pretty cool to see it put in another "context".

A bit off topic...but my senior capstone project was called SAE Aero where we built and designed a remote control aircraft from the ground up. There were of course many constraints and requirements that we had to fulfill including carrying a payload. We competed against teams from universities all over the world (competition was in California). These were big remote control planes too (85" wing span). We literally design an entire airframe from the ground up (from CAD design to finished laser cut balsa parts).

Anyways...off topic but man did you learn a lot about aircraft...even though it was of course scaled down quite a bit the same concepts apply (for the most part).
 
Cool project! Thanks for sharing!

Oh, and offer open to wine/dine and/or take you up in the Skylane if you ever find yourself in my neck of the woods.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Cool project! Thanks for sharing!

Oh, and offer open to wine/dine and/or take you up in the Skylane if you ever find yourself in my neck of the woods.
Click to expand...

Haha that would be awesome...I love Texas. My brother lives in Burleson...I almost went to school at UT Austin.
 
CC268 said:
Yeah I have slowly been getting through the Pilot Handbook
Click to expand...

Good! And that is just a start. No instructor knows everything, and no instructor can impart everything that s/he does know to a student. You have to fill in the gaps by reading, which should suggest some questions to ask your instructor. Writers such as Rod Machado and myself try to break the FAA pubs down into manageable bites in non-government language, but never forget that the FAA pubs trump whatever you might read or hear from your instructor. Note my sig.

Bob Gardner
 
Well I think I am done searching for an instructor over at Deer Valley. I am contacting Scottsdale Executive Flight Training to see what they may have to offer.

Getting a bit frustrating trying to find someone. Seems like everyone I email or call doesn't answer back or it goes to voicemail :(
 
CC268 said:
Well I think I am done searching for an instructor over at Deer Valley. I am contacting Scottsdale Executive Flight Training to see what they may have to offer.

Getting a bit frustrating trying to find someone. Seems like everyone I email or call doesn't answer back or it goes to voicemail :(
Click to expand...

I truly hate that, but it's common in aviation. Keep looking. You'll eventually find someone worth your time.

These days, some people never read email, and virtually no one answers the phone. Not a good way to run a business, though....
 
AggieMike88 said:
  1. What makes an airplane turn? (Hint: twisting the yoke is not the answer)
  2. Why is back pressure on the yoke or stick needed in a turn?
  3. What is a stall and what causes it?
  4. Once you are in flight, straight and level, and are trimmed properly so the airplane will fly "hands off the controls" and not climb or descend, what happens if you add more power? Reduce power? When in a descent, will your airspeed increase or decrease?
  5. The Cessna you are training in is held together by hundreds of rivets. What is type of drag are these rivets contributing to?
  6. Name the four parts of a standard traffic pattern.
  7. What purpose do the flaps serve?
Click to expand...


- Coriolis force.
- Makes for a better massage.
- They make a blue pill for that.
- Too many questions. The only reason to trim for hands off flight is so you can pee in the Gatorade bottle. You'll know if it's not working.
- The drag is that they cost so much for such a simple technology anyone can use in a barn.
- 1. Where the hell is everyone? 2. ATITPPA 3. Line up for a straight in. 4. Get out and go behind the hangar to finish what you started with the Gatorade bottle.
- To scare the hell out of you on takeoff after a touch and go, if you don't notice they didn't retract.
 
Well some good news and bad news...I have found two instructors who would probably work for me (one is independent and one works for a school) - both over at Scottsdale. The bad news is it is A LOT more expensive then I thought it might be. I may have to re-evaluate what I can afford (real bummer). It sounds like it is gonna be $300-$350 a lesson and at twice a week that is $1400 every two weeks. I just can't support that.

I am thinking my best bet at this time is just suck it up and save over the next couple months. I have 3k saved already and I could certainly have over 10k saved in the next 6 months.

I hate to wait, but I think it probably makes the most sense to just have the cash saved and ready to go. This way I can fly 3-4 times a week and just really go after it.

In the meantime I will dream of flying and start being more consistent about reading my Pilot's Handbook every night - maybe start reading 20 pages a night or something. I am pretty bummed, but I guess that what you gotta do.

Maybe I should consider becoming a doctor or something ;p
 
Last edited:
Delayed gratification for an item that is more want than need is always a reasonable choice.

With the money saved up in advance, dollars won't be the reason training gets interrupted. Scheduling, weather, real life.... Maybe. But not lack of funds.

Applause to you for exercising that wisdom muscle.

And don't forget to make pilot friends who can take you up in the right seat from time to time. Exposure to how it happens and works will be both enjoyable and informative.
 
I guess one plus was I got to sit in a brand new Cirrus SR22T yesterday - ironically the doctor who gave me my medical certificate owned it ;p He leases it to the school for instruction. What a fricken sweet plane...would love to be an engineer for a company like Cirrus - that would be so fun.

Moral of the story: Guess I should have been a doctor.
 
It sounds like it is gonna be $300-$350 a lesson
Click to expand...


That is an awful lot for a lesson! For that price I sure hope you would not be flying in a beat-up 30 year old 172...IE: what I fly out of WestWind!
 
RobertSubnet said:
That is an awful lot for a lesson! For that price I sure hope you would not be flying in a beat-up 30 year old 172...IE: what I fly out of WestWind!
Click to expand...

I thought so too - BUT one of the guys does 1.5hrs in the air and 0.5 hrs on the ground..so it is a 2 hour lesson...

Scottsdale Exec would be about $250 a lesson (1 hour in the air and 0.5hr on the ground).

Westwind is by far the cheapest option I have found, but the wait list there seems a bit ridiculous and as soon as I told them I would be paying for the training myself they seemed to be uninterested.

Basically the prices I have found have been $140ish/hr (172 w/ fuel) and $60-$70/hr for the instructors time.

Westwind is 110/hr for the plane (w/fuel) and $65/hr for the instructor (or somewhere in that ball park).

Almost every instructor I have talked to says that Deer Valley has essentially been dried up by Westwind and Transpac in terms of training - there is very little in terms of aircraft availability there.

In the long run the price difference between Westwind and flying over at Scottsdale will be fairly minimal in terms of the grand scheme of things.
 
Oh one thing I haven't mentioned...I am planning on taking the King Ground School course and taking my written exam while I save up the money...that way when I am ready to fly in 4-5 months I will have only the flying and checkride to focus on.
 
Just for grins, giggles, and the data point, ask them what is the instructor rate if they do the training in your aircraft.

Decent C150's can be obtained in the neighborhood of $20k and operated for about $25-30 per hour dry ($60-ish wet). Many upsides exist when training in your aircraft. Plus once you have the PPL, you aren't competing with others for rental. Then when you are ready for something different, you likely can sell for close to the purchase price to another up and coming student.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Just for grins, giggles, and the data point, ask them what is the instructor rate if they do the training in your aircraft.

Decent C150's can be obtained in the neighborhood of $20k and operated for about $25-30 per hour dry ($60-ish wet). Many upsides exist when training in your aircraft. Plus once you have the PPL, you aren't competing with others for rental. Then when you are ready for something different, you likely can sell for close to the purchase price to another up and coming student.
Click to expand...

Yea...owning my own plane may come down the road if my dad is interested in getting current and flying again...otherwise it isn't something I could do right now unfortunately.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top