I'm nearing the end of my training and looking at possibly buying a plane in the next few months. Would really like to get a true 4 seat plane and was wondering if anyone had some ballpark estimates on what I could expect to pay as a low time pilot in a $40-60K plane. Leaning towards a 182 or possible Cherokee 180 or 235. Thanks for any help!
Insurance costs
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OkieAviator
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OkieAviator
My insurance is just under $1000 a year. Its on a 172 with a $70K hull value and at the time I got it I had 48 hours. Not sure if that helps you...
It largely depends on your hull value. I'm paying $2400 for the Navion but I've got a $140,000 hull value (big engine and very expensive avionics).
deyoung
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Mine is about $1000/year for a Cherokee-235, and wasn't much more than that when I first bought it at about 80 hours.
James331
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cgrab
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I pay about 650 for a 40k plane. I have about 200 hours.
MooneyDriver78
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Tom
You'll pay less for fixed gear, less for a cheaper plane, and less if you hangar it and less if you have your instrument rating.
kenjr
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we fly a cherokee 235 that's book valued at around $55k. Three of us are VFR guys with under 500 hours and one guy is a retired SWA captain with over 30k hours. I'm not sure how having him works into our insurance rate but we pay about $900/year.
180 hp buys you a true 4 seat plane with limitations on occupant weight, luggage weight, and fuel range. 235 hp buys you the same with less limitations. 260 buys you 4 seats with no limitations (if it fits, it flies with full fuel). 300 hp buys you the same with better runway/altitude performance. A turbo on any of them will buy you altitude performance comparable to the next step up in HP in the 10,000'-14,500' foot range, with benefits increasing in O2 altitudes.
To take best advantage of 300hp (and 260 in the case of a PA-32) you really want a 6 place airframe for the volume and door system, IF you intend to be hauling a family's worth of stuff. Even if you don't need the weight, the volume for luggage and supplies can come into effect. You should be able to find a Cherokee 6 in your budget category, so if you are buying a family plane, you might also want to consider this.
It all depends on what you want the plane to do for you.
denverpilot
Tied Down
$1200/year on the 182.
If you use 1.5% the insured value using the standard $1MM/$100,00 liability, you can accurately gauge your GA plane insurance costs after you have 100 hours in it. Multiple factors influence the 1st year/100hr price premium but for most planes will fall into the 4%-7% range.
Thanks for all the replies it definitely gave me a rough idea what it should cost. Trying to decide if I want to own a plane by myself or go in with 3 or 4 other guys. I really like the idea of having it to myself and being able to fly it whenever, but sharing the costs also makes sense.
HouTxPilot82
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If I may jump into this thread with an insurance question of my own regarding the typical liability renters insurance - I was required to get this when I first solo'd, and if I recall correctly it was around $250 for a year (AOPA). Does the rate change after getting PPL? Or hitting some other total hours milestone? Just curious. Thanks.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
It does not help me. It seems too cheap. What total coverage do you have? You have very few hours or experience so I fail to see that your covered very well. It's all in the small print. I consider 2-300 hours very low time.
OkieFlyer
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I'm in the process of buying a 1962 182E for $38k. I've been getting quotes for 40K hull value, and the best I've seen so far is $895/yr. I'm a very low time pilot with 96 hrs. I assume from what I've read, that the premium might go down after some flight time is accumulated and/or endorsements are added, but I don't know for sure.
Try these folks. They are super nice people.
http://kimmelinsurance.com/
Try these folks. They are super nice people.
http://kimmelinsurance.com/
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3-4 way partnerships seem to work out best for both the owners and the plane. Most individuals do not fly enough to optimize the cost of ownership not on on the fixed cost basis, but also the significant increase in per hour maintenance costs due to lack of use. Machines hate sitting around, they deteriorate quickly. What makes this worse is that the it costs more to repair deterioration than wear, and you get no return on investment from them.
The trick is to have 3-4 partners who have the same wants for the plane, and have the same concepts on what to spend money on and how to equip the plane. If everyone is on the same page as to what equipment they want and what condition they want to keep the plane in, along with the ability to pay their share. You have that, you have a great deal. I know several people in that position me they all enjoy the experience quite well. Some partnerships last a long time through multiple planes.
The best way I have seen to assure this result is also the riskies to you and requires you to capitalize the plane until the parners buy their shares. You get the plane and outfit it the way you want, then find the partners.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
Now call Avemco for a reality check. See what they quote. Do you have liability insurance, how much per person? Etc. there is a reason some agents are real cheap and it's more than likely in the fine print.
OkieAviator
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No small print, it's pretty straight forward. The coverage is through PIM aviation insurance. In addition to the hull there is $1M Liability and some medical payment coverage associated with it.
OkieFlyer
En-Route
Here's the quote:
U.S. Specialty
N3323Y - Hull @ $40,000 = $630
Deductible - $0 Not in Motion / $0 In Motion
Liability - $1,000,000 Each Occurrence / $100,000 Each Passenger = $265
Med Pay - $5,000 = included
Total Premium = $895
Seems to be in line with what other guys I've spoken to in the area are paying.
OkieAviator
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Maybe insurance is just cheaper in Oklahoma.
Theboys
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Just buy plane you want. Insurance cost isn't enough difference in cost to buy something you won't be happy with. I have a 172n I was quoted 430$ for 40$ coverage. I also have a few others I pay more on. My first year cessna 172 I learned on cost around 1000 first year and 500 or so few years later. I also had a commanche while ppl training and insurance was around 2200 for that.
denverpilot
Tied Down
This. Our total insurance bill is two full tanks of fuel at last year's prices. Not much of the percentage of total operating cost at all.
If you're sweating the insurance, the first "ugly" find during an inspection and subsequent repair will be a total budget buster. Just the annual inspection with no significant squawks or repairs will run the same price annually as the insurance does.
Add parts at today's prices (Cessna's new owners have announced that they will make sure the full cost of the parts including liability insurance will now be included in the parts prices), you're way way above the insurance cost per year. The days of cheap subsidized Cessna parts where you only paid what it cost to make them, are no longer. Textron is run the "GE way" now with mostly ex-GE execs making those decisions. There's no motivation to build brand loyalty anymore. They know they aren't going to sell a 1970's 172 or 182 driver a new one.
And with the announcement they've guaranteed it. If I ever decided to go whole hog into a new aircraft at new aircraft prices, Cessna would be nearly dead last on my shopping list. Old tech, management that isn't interested or even all that effective at supporting GA (Skycatcher is/was a disaster in the only GA market ripe for picking), no innovation. Even the G1000 system is starting to show its age and no clear upgrade path for the ADS-B mandate yet. Unless I missed the announcement.
Nope. Cessna wouldn't get my dollars. No way. I love flying them but they're a non-starter for purchase of a new aircraft. There's a lot better options for $250,000 or more.
By the way, as Cessna parts prices climb, one of two things will naturally happen... Insurance will go up, or a lot more aircraft will be totaled on paper and sold for salvage instead of repaired, for what used to be considered very minor damage. The place where this is really going to show up are retracts. There are now parts in the gear retraction systems of all the Cessna retracts that cost a tenth of the entire airframe price. Add in a little sheet metal work and you'll go over the magic number and total the airplane really really easily.
Anyone leasing back a Cessna RG at this point to a flight school of kids beating the hell out of the gear for a Commerical rating, is setting themselves up for a $20K+ repair bill. The saving grace may be third party parts suppliers. Kent can tell ya how much his club saved on their RG repair by not using Cessna parts.
But insurance is likely to go up a bit, however you slice it.
Clark1961
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Shop around for insurance. Don't give the broker the "N" number. You should be somewhere between 1,000 & 1,400 the first year. The price should drop at least 20% the second year assuming you fly 100 hrs or so.
For example I'm paying about $750 on $70,000 declared value with a million liability, 100,000/passenger. I could have gotten a million smooth for about $300 more but frankly I don't carry that many passengers. I fly about 100 hrs/yr.
For example I'm paying about $750 on $70,000 declared value with a million liability, 100,000/passenger. I could have gotten a million smooth for about $300 more but frankly I don't carry that many passengers. I fly about 100 hrs/yr.
$140k Navion?!
Sweet planes, no doubt, but damn
B Model with all the desired mods
Factory Baggage Door
Factory Aux
Tip Tanks (makes 100 Gallons total).
IO-550-B (zero time since factory new when it was installed)
GNS480 WAAS IFR GPS
MX20 + CHARTVIEW + XM WEATHER + XM AUDIO
STEC 55X AUTOPILOT
KING HSI
JDI 830 engine analyzer
TANIS heater
There are a couple of nicer navions out there, but not many.
red4golf
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denverpilot
Tied Down
Hey I'll update my note. I was looking at the wrong entry on our spreadsheet.
After we adjusted our hull insurance value to match the engine time slowly ticking off, and requoted a few years ago, we're at $850/yr on the 182.
Just updating for posterity.
After we adjusted our hull insurance value to match the engine time slowly ticking off, and requoted a few years ago, we're at $850/yr on the 182.
Just updating for posterity.