Instrument Training Approach

azpilot

azpilot

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
823
Display Name
Display name:
azpilot
I've started instrument training. During my last lesson, we shot an ILS approach. I was able to keep the needles pretty well centered with the foggles on. I made my callouts at the various altitudes. When I got to minimums, I took the foggles off and the runway was right there in front of me. That was a pretty awesome feeling!

I've still got a long way to go, but so far, I'm really enjoying these instrument lessons. We're going to try and plan a cross country flight that will put us in actual IMC conditions as I get a little further along. I'm excited to fly through a cloud for the first time!
 
chartbundle said:
Ahh, kids these days, in my day you had an off-field NDB or VOR and sometimes you were in the same county as the airport when you took the foggles off.
Click to expand...
I am pretty lucky. There is a significant amount of flight training in the Phoenix Metro area. We shot the ILS at KCGZ for runway 05. There were four planes taking turns shooting approaches. While we were in the holding pattern over TFD there were times when there were 5 planes int he pattern at KCGZ. Very busy.
 
azpilot said:
I've started instrument training. During my last lesson, we shot an ILS approach. I was able to keep the needles pretty well centered with the foggles on. I made my callouts at the various altitudes. When I got to minimums, I took the foggles off and the runway was right there in front of me. That was a pretty awesome feeling!

I've still got a long way to go, but so far, I'm really enjoying these instrument lessons. We're going to try and plan a cross country flight that will put us in actual IMC conditions as I get a little further along. I'm excited to fly through a cloud for the first time!
Click to expand...

Wait until you do it in actual when you break out right at minimums (200' agl) and there's the runway! Glad you're enjoying the training. Let us know what your up to though out your training. Instrument rating a very worthwhile rating.
 
chartbundle said:
Ahh, kids these days, in my day you had an off-field NDB or VOR and sometimes you were in the same county as the airport when you took the foggles off.
Click to expand...
If it was a big county like in Wyoming...
 
mscard88 said:
Wait until you do it in actual when you break out right at minimums (200' agl) and there's the runway! Glad you're enjoying the training. Let us know what your up to though out your training. Instrument rating a very worthwhile rating.
Click to expand...
Better yet, wait till you spot the approach lights at 200 feet, but don't see the runway until 100 feet. :D
 
azpilot said:
I've started instrument training. During my last lesson, we shot an ILS approach. I was able to keep the needles pretty well centered with the foggles on. I made my callouts at the various altitudes. When I got to minimums, I took the foggles off and the runway was right there in front of me. That was a pretty awesome feeling!

I've still got a long way to go, but so far, I'm really enjoying these instrument lessons. We're going to try and plan a cross country flight that will put us in actual IMC conditions as I get a little further along. I'm excited to fly through a cloud for the first time!
Click to expand...

Good luck getting actual flyable IMC in AZ! I’ve had none :(. Best option is likely to go fly the marine layer over in California.
 
chartbundle said:
Ahh, kids these days, in my day you had an off-field NDB or VOR and sometimes you were in the same county as the airport when you took the foggles off.
Click to expand...

I must have been lucky with the off fields NDBs that I’ve flown because most were pretty accurate. Last NDB I flew (2011), we didn’t fully breakout but could see the runway directly below us. Now, some NDBs and ADFs that aren’t maintained well? Yeah you’ll be nowhere near the runway.
 
azpilot said:
I've started instrument training. During my last lesson, we shot an ILS approach. I was able to keep the needles pretty well centered with the foggles on. I made my callouts at the various altitudes. When I got to minimums, I took the foggles off and the runway was right there in front of me. That was a pretty awesome feeling!

I've still got a long way to go, but so far, I'm really enjoying these instrument lessons. We're going to try and plan a cross country flight that will put us in actual IMC conditions as I get a little further along. I'm excited to fly through a cloud for the first time!
Click to expand...
Thats what its about. Have fun. Well, not to much fun, its kinda serious stuff. But have fun
 
MauleSkinner said:
Better yet, wait till you spot the approach lights at 200 feet, but don't see the runway until 100 feet.
Click to expand...

Dumb Q but if u can’t see the rny at minimums aren’t u supposed to go missed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
chartbundle said:
Ahh, kids these days, in my day you had an off-field NDB or VOR and sometimes you were in the same county as the airport when you took the foggles off.
Click to expand...
Old timer, when did you get your instrument rating? :)
 
I’m not as ancient as some here, but I have used the early rnav systems... tune VOR, enter radial then DME distance you wanted it moved to. You could line up several and make a straight in approach. It was a real breakthrough at the time.
 
Ok, I know you can continue down if you see the “runway environment”, which includes most runway lighting. My question is, can you continue on down if you pick up the rabbit?
 
Kritchlow said:
I’m not as ancient as some here, but I have used the early rnav systems... tune VOR, enter radial then DME distance you wanted it moved to. You could line up several and make a straight in approach. It was a real breakthrough at the time.
Click to expand...

Thought we were in heaven! ;)
 
Bill Jennings said:
Ok, I know you can continue down if you see the “runway environment”, which includes most runway lighting. My question is, can you continue on down if you pick up the rabbit?
Click to expand...
Yes. You can continue until 100ft above the TDZE.
 
jordane93 said:
Yes. You can continue until 100ft above the TDZE.
Click to expand...

Ok, I think I got it. Then at 100ft, you must then be able to pick up the “runway environment” or you have to go missed at that point, correct?
 
jordane93 said:
Yes. You can continue until 100ft above the TDZE.
Click to expand...
And Jordan’s wording is important. “Continue to 100’ above TDZE”, not continue another 100’. This also holds true on non precision approaches (or at least it did at one point in time).
 
Bill Jennings said:
Ok, I think I got it. Then at 100ft, you must then be able to pick up the “runway environment” or you have to go missed at that point, correct?
Click to expand...
Almost. Not just 100ft. 100ft above TDZE then you need at least one of the following

(i) The approach light system, except that the pilot may not descend below 100 feet above the touchdown zone elevation using the approach lights as a reference unless the red terminating bars or the red side row bars are also distinctly visible and identifiable.

(ii) The threshold.

(iii) The threshold markings.

(iv) The threshold lights.

(v) The runway end identifier lights.

(vi) The visual glideslope indicator.

(vii) The touchdown zone or touchdown zone markings.

(viii) The touchdown zone lights.

(ix) The runway or runway markings.

(x) The runway lights.
 
Kritchlow said:
And Jordan’s wording is important. “Continue to 100’ above TDZE”, not continue another 100’. This also holds true on non precision approaches (or at least it did at one point in time).
Click to expand...

Still does for Non Precision too.
 
Kritchlow said:
And Jordan’s wording is important. “Continue to 100’ above TDZE”, not continue another 100’. This also holds true on non precision approaches (or at least it did at one point in time).
Click to expand...
Yea the reg is good for DA, DH or MDA. My FO had to do a hand flown LOC down to mins on the checkride. I was just able to get the rabbits in sight for him to continue.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Ok, I know you can continue down if you see the “runway environment”, which includes most runway lighting. My question is, can you continue on down if you pick up the rabbit?
Click to expand...
Yes, but no lower than 100 feet above TDZE unless the red terminating bars or the red side row bars are also distinctly visible and identifiable.

EDIT: see post #23 above for the FAR on this
 
Last edited:
jordane93 said:
Yea the reg is good for DA, DH or MDA. My FO had to do a hand flown LOC down to mins on the checkride. I was just able to get the rabbits in sight for him to continue.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but that’s why I find it a bit scary. At times there is no vertical guidance down several hundred feet.
 
Kritchlow said:
Agreed, but that’s why I find it a bit scary. At times there is no vertical guidance down several hundred feet.
Click to expand...
Autopilot off, remove the FD, keep the descent going and hope you can see the runway environment!
 
Kritchlow said:
Yes, but still not good imo. YMMV.
Click to expand...
Definitely. But how many non precision approaches down to mins have you done? GA I haven’t done any and in the close to 2 years at my airline I haven’t flown any. It’s usually just a LOC or RNAV and it’s clear and a million so it’s essentially just a visual. I think it’s just something we have to get tested on to make sure we can do it. Likely we’ll never see one in real life.
 
jordane93 said:
Definitely. But how many non precision approaches down to mins have you done? GA I haven’t done any and in the close to 2 years at my airline I haven’t flown any. It’s usually just a LOC or RNAV and it’s clear and a million so it’s essentially just a visual. I think it’s just something we have to get tested on to make sure we can do it. Likely we’ll never see one in real life.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The only non precision approaches we do also have vertical guidance. It was really back a ways when we did VOR approaches with the VOR.
 
Kritchlow said:
Agreed. The only non precision approaches we do also have vertical guidance. It was really back a ways when we did VOR approaches with the VOR.
Click to expand...
How does that work? Does the Airbus just build a GPS derived glide path for every non precision approach in your database or do you have to build it yourself?
 
jordane93 said:
How does that work? Does the Airbus just build a GPS derived glide path for every non precision approach in your database or do you have to build it yourself?
Click to expand...
It will build it, but technically we can’t use it.

That said, the only non precision approaches we do in the real world are GPS with the slope.
In the sim we do a localizer with no slope, but again... it’s easy to cheat.
 
WannFly said:
Dumb Q but if u can’t see the rny at minimums aren’t u supposed to go missed?
Click to expand...

jordane93 said:
Nope. You can go below the DA if you see a variety of things.

http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/navigation/when-can-you-go-below-mins-instrument-approach/
Click to expand...

Heh. I’m sure @jesse remembers me going “uuuhhhhhhh. Yes! We can continue....” during one of our approaches that ended up being to minimums in ground fog where we could see enough things to do so.

Also went missed for real one of those days. Good times. Don’t get that much here.

That’s a “first” for someone too... hmmm... fly the missed of course but then the inevitable, “Say intentions...” as soon as you report you went missed... hmmm... let’s see here... wait, I’m supposed to have a plan for this? :)
 
jordane93 said:
Definitely. But how many non precision approaches down to mins have you done? GA I haven’t done any and in the close to 2 years at my airline I haven’t flown any. It’s usually just a LOC or RNAV and it’s clear and a million so it’s essentially just a visual. I think it’s just something we have to get tested on to make sure we can do it. Likely we’ll never see one in real life.
Click to expand...
If you fly the airlines, it's very likely you'll never see one. If you fly corporate or charter, it can happen, but it's becoming less likely.
 
MauleSkinner said:
If you fly the airlines, it's very likely you'll never see one. If you fly corporate or charter, it can happen, but it's becoming less likely.
Click to expand...
Yea even the small outstations we fly to has an ILS to at least one runway.
 
CC268 said:
Good luck getting actual flyable IMC in AZ! I’ve had none :(. Best option is likely to go fly the marine layer over in California.
Click to expand...
Ya, my instructor said he usually tries to plan a x-cntry flight to San Diego when we can expect IMC. I'm pretty excited for it!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top