Instrument test in VFR airplane?

[rbridges]

I've already stated the risk--
What exactly is the benefit of operating on an IFR clearance restricted to VMC, vs being a VFR aircraft practicing instrument procedures? Both are restricted to VMC. All players know the latter is VFR, while the former is IFR only as long as he is in VMC. I would hazard a guess that putting "restricted to vmc" on an IFR flightplan does not get passed to every controller handling the flight.

How about hearing from a controller? They're the ones that have to keep airplanes from trading paint. Is it worth the potential confusion?

I've done many IFR flights and been in VMC the entire way. If I were trying to train, and all I had was a non-IFR plane on a CAVU day, I don't see the harm. I wouldn't recommend filing IFR if it looked like you could be hitting clouds or IMC, but that's just my opinion.

 

[stratobee]

How could accepting an IFR clearance from ATC, which you will do (unless it's all a mock ride) during you check ride, not require a current pitot/static? They're depending on you to keep the correct altitude within the IFR environment, VMC or not.

 

[Witmo]

I've done many IFR flights and been in VMC the entire way. If I were trying to train, and all I had was a non-IFR plane on a CAVU day, I don't see the harm. I wouldn't recommend filing IFR if it looked like you could be hitting clouds or IMC, but that's just my opinion.

It's not a problem when the weather is CAVU. It could be a problem when the weather is marginal VFR. Your last sentence is telling. The pilots with a clue would not file if they had to remain in VMC if the weather was questionable. It's the ones that do that could cause problems. I've had requests for VFR practice approaches declined for some reason. Perhaps the controller had his hands full with legitimate IFR traffic and he needed all his airspace for vectoring and the cloud cover precluded VFR flyers from dodging around them. If a controller feels the need to limit traffic to "real" IFR aircraft, I bet he'll feel blindsighted when that IFR return suddenly announces he's restricted to VMC and needs to deviate/cancel at some point. I may be out to lunch on this and would appreciate an actual controller commenting.

 

[akflyer]

I'm not sure where everyone is coming up with the idea that you can fly IFR in a non-IFR airplane, for whatever specific purpose.

FAR 91.205(d) clearly states: "For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required"" (followed by 9 items).

This is a very clear statement. Nowhere does it differentiate between IMC or VMC, or training, or checkrides, or cross-countries, or anything else.

If you file an IFR flight plan, no matter what else you are doing, 91.205 tells you exactly what you need, with no ambiguity.

As far as the pitot-static and transponder checks required, 91.411 is equally clear:
"No person may operate an airplane, or helicopter, in controlled airspace under IFR unless---" (details of inspections follow).
Again, nothing about IMC or VMC or training or checkrides, or anything else. If you file IFR for whatever reason, transponder and pitot-checks better be current.

ATC cannot give you a waiver for these. They may not know, or may not care, but it doesn't change the fact that you would be violating regulations in Part 91.

But it's more than just violating regulations. It's about safety. If you don't have the required equipment, you don't have the ability to move safely within the defined IFR infrastructure which requires them. If your pitot-static system is out of cert, you run the risk of exceeding IFR altitude tolerances and getting a violation, or a close call with someone who's at the correct altitude. If your transponder hasn't been checked, you run the risk of sending bad information to ATC. These can cause serious problems for everyone regardless of your status of IMC/VMC/training/etc.

 

[Lon33]

The reason there's disagreement in this thread is that the arguments are like ships (planes?) passing in the night and not addressing one another. In other words, both sides are right. Here's why:

The FARs require a plane to be equipped in a specified way in order for the plane to be flown under an Instrument flight plan, even if the weather is VMC.

The section of the FAA's Flight Standards Information Management Systems (not FARs but FAA policy none-the-less) quoted by James in post #15 permits an IFR-equipped plane to be used for Instrument training and testing even if that plane is not "certified" for flight in VMC.

No LSA (that I'm aware of) is certified for flight in VMC. Some though are equipped with the instruments required for instrument flight. There's a SportCruiser at Santa Monica Airport like that -- an LSA whose manufacturer prohibits its use in IMC even though it is equipped with avionics for instrument flight. That plane, and others like it, may be used for Instrument training and checkrides. But it may not be flown in IMC.