Instrument Practical in aircraft without....

jaybee

jaybee

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
1,143
Location
sometimes Cocoa, FL
Display Name
Display name:
jaybee
I had a weird question thrown at me from a friend. He has a little old beater 152 with dual VOR but no glideslope and DME. Completely 100% IFR certified and legal.

Practical test requires demonstration of a precision approach however.

Can he take the test in his own aircraft ?

I say nay but there always seem to be an exception rule or something somewhere.......
 
Probably not since precision approach requires localizer with glide slope.
 
I heard from a CFII once that as long as the aircraft is certified for IFR, you can take your practical in it and you are only tested on the procedures that aircraft is equipped to handle.

I wouldn't be surprised if the oral portion required a full walk through of how to perform a precision approach, however.
 
Could he use a PAR to suffice for that requirement?:dunno:

Edit: looks like no.
 
Last edited:
rachelk.tailwinds said:
I heard from a CFII once that as long as the aircraft is certified for IFR, you can take your practical in it and you are only tested on the procedures that aircraft is equipped to handle.

I wouldn't be surprised if the oral portion required a full walk through of how to perform a precision approach, however.
Click to expand...

Based on the PTS, that is true for items such as ADF, DME and GPS, however, it specifically says that the candidate must perform the precision approaches as required items. There are no exceptions published that I can see.

So, while the plane is legal for IFR, it appears that you wouldn't be able to complete the IFR check ride with it.
 
This is what the PTS says:

Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test

The instrument rating applicant is required by 14 CFR part 61 to provide an airworthy, certificated aircraft for use during the practical test. Its operating limitations must not prohibit the TASKS required on the practical test. Flight instruments are those required for controlling the aircraft without outside references. The required radio equipment is that which is necessary for communications with air traffic control (ATC), and for the performance of two of the following nonprecision approaches: very high frequency omnidirectional range (VOR), nondirectional beacon (NDB), global positioning system (GPS) without vertical guidance, localizer (LOC), localizer-type directional aid (LDA), simplified directional facility (SDF), or area navigation (RNAV) and one precision approach: instrument landing system (ILS), GNSS landing system (GLS), localizer performance with vertical guidance (LPV) or microwave landing system (MLS). GPS equipment must be instrument flight rules (IFR) certified and contain the current database.
Note: A localizer performance with vertical guidance (LPV) approach with a decision altitude (DA) greater than 300 feet height above terrain (HAT) may be used as a nonprecision approach; however, due to the precision of its glidepath and localizer-like lateral navigation characteristics, an LPV can be used to demonstrate precision approach proficiency (AOA VI TASK B) if the DA is equal to or less than 300 feet HAT.
Click to expand...
 
rachelk.tailwinds said:
I heard from a CFII once...
Click to expand...

This is how many wrong answers begin.

Directly from the PTS, page 8:

The instrument rating applicant is required by 14 CFR part 61 to provide an airworthy, certificated aircraft for use during the practical test. Its operating limitations must not prohibit the Tasks required on the practical test. Flight instruments are those required for controlling the aircraft without outside references. The required radio equipment is that which is necessary for communications with air traffic control (ATC), and for the performance of two of the following nonprecision approaches: very high frequency omnidirectional range (VOR), nondirectional beacon (NDB), global positioning system (GPS) without vertical guidance, localizer (LOC), localizer-type directional aid (LDA), simplified directional facility (SDF), or area navigation (RNAV) and one precision approach: instrument landing system (ILS), GNSS landing system (GLS), localizer performance with vertical guidance (LPV) or microwave landing system (MLS). GPS equipment must be instrument flight rules (IFR) certified and contain the current database. Note: A localizer performance with vertical guidance (LPV) approach with a decision altitude (DA) greater than 300 feet height above terrain (HAT) may be used as a nonprecision approach; however, due to the precision of its glidepath and localizer-like lateral navigation characteristics, an LPV can be used to demonstrate precision approach proficiency (AOA VI Task B) if the DA is equal to or less than 300 feet HAT.
 
Uh why did you post the same as the preceding post??? :rolleyes2: :no:
 
mscard88 said:
Uh why did you post the same as the preceding post??? :rolleyes2: :no:
Click to expand...

Guessing since they were posted within 3 minutes of eachother he was creating the post and didn't know the guy before him posted the same thing, but just a guess :D
 
You will need to shoot a precision approach. If you don't have a glide slope that will be tough.
 
rachelk.tailwinds said:
I heard from a CFII once that as long as the aircraft is certified for IFR, you can take your practical in it and you are only tested on the procedures that aircraft is equipped to handle.

I wouldn't be surprised if the oral portion required a full walk through of how to perform a precision approach, however.
Click to expand...

bradg33 said:
This is how many wrong answers begin.

Directly from the PTS, page 8:

The instrument rating applicant is required by 14 CFR part 61 to provide an airworthy, certificated aircraft for use during the practical test. Its operating limitations must not prohibit the Tasks required on the practical test. Flight instruments are those required for controlling the aircraft without outside references. The required radio equipment is that which is necessary for communications with air traffic control (ATC), and for the performance of two of the following nonprecision approaches: very high frequency omnidirectional range (VOR), nondirectional beacon (NDB), global positioning system (GPS) without vertical guidance, localizer (LOC), localizer-type directional aid (LDA), simplified directional facility (SDF), or area navigation (RNAV) and one precision approach: instrument landing system (ILS), GNSS landing system (GLS), localizer performance with vertical guidance (LPV) or microwave landing system (MLS). GPS equipment must be instrument flight rules (IFR) certified and contain the current database. Note: A localizer performance with vertical guidance (LPV) approach with a decision altitude (DA) greater than 300 feet height above terrain (HAT) may be used as a nonprecision approach; however, due to the precision of its glidepath and localizer-like lateral navigation characteristics, an LPV can be used to demonstrate precision approach proficiency (AOA VI Task B) if the DA is equal to or less than 300 feet HAT.
Click to expand...


The CFI is where my friend heard the rumor.

Thanks for the clarification and citation, everyone else also.
 
Been there done that, got the t shirt.

You need to shoot a glide slope approach, you can sub a PAR, ASR, whatever approach.

Get on barnstormers, it's not that spends to add ILS capabilities to a aircraft, plenty of used stuff for not much on the market.
 
I could be wrong, but I don't think any navigation equipment is required for an IFR airplane. At least there didn't use to be. In theory one could get radar vectors clear across the country.
 
Kritchlow said:
I could be wrong, but I don't think any navigation equipment is required for an IFR airplane. At least there didn't use to be. In theory one could get radar vectors clear across the country.
Click to expand...

To a degree, yes. But for taking a checkride for an Instrument Rating, the Practical Test Standards does have requirements for the approaches to be used.
 
RotorAndWing said:
To a degree, yes. But for taking a checkride for an Instrument Rating, the Practical Test Standards does have requirements for the approaches to be used.
Click to expand...

I do agree with that.
 
Kritchlow said:
I could be wrong, but I don't think any navigation equipment is required for an IFR airplane. At least there didn't use to be. In theory one could get radar vectors clear across the country.
Click to expand...

"navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown."

A compass is navigation equipment, but I don't think the FAA would accept that as suitable by itself. For one thing, there needs to a means to deal with lost comm.
 
For flying IFR is one thing, or the CHECKRIDE, as has been mentioned, is another matter.
 
The checkride is to evaluate your abilities to fly any plane, so it has to cover precision approaches, despite you may only be flying a 152 today, it could be a full blown IFR plane next year.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top