Instructor dies - Student lives

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180
http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2014/11/accident-occurred-november-09-2014-in.html

The link to the story and NTSB report above is but one example of a tragic subject that I'd like to tackle.

On a dual flight and something goes awry, do you think it's Karmic Justice for the CFI to give his/ her life for the mistake? (Assuming you believe in such a thing)

Personally, I find it most tragic when the student dies and instructor lives, much like when the Captain of a sinking ship saves himself at the lost of his crew. What instructor would want to psychologically bear that? 44709 ride is the least of his concerns at that point. I think the same sorrowful feeling would persist with any pilot who loses a passenger and he lives.

I hope to never experience that.

I hope this student flies again. From the story, it appears they only speak of a sprained ankle, but the NTSB report says his condition is much worse.
 
I don't understand how one could sacrifice themselves for another in an airplane wreck ... Either you're taking action to try to save the plane and thus everyine inside, or else you're not. Doesnt seem like you could pick and choose amongst occupants. I don't think the Captain / sinking ship analogy works all that well unless you ditch / crash and the instructor flees the wreckage without trying to pull out the student. What am I missing?
 
CFIT on a night cross country lesson. Two people seated inches apart, and one survives. I wonder what was different for them.

Anybody know about the shoulder harnesses in a C172S? Is it possible that they could have been adjusted well for one seat but not the other?

Harnesses must be a great help in a crash like this. Airbags even more so. I trained in planes that had just a lap belt, and it did worry me.
 
Irish_Armada said:
I don't understand how one could sacrifice themselves for another in an airplane wreck ... Either you're taking action to try to save the plane and thus everyine inside, or else you're not. Doesnt seem like you could pick and choose amongst occupants. I don't think the Captain / sinking ship analogy works all that well unless you ditch / crash and the instructor flees the wreckage without trying to pull out the student. What am I missing?
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Yeah.

Now if the CFI had a chute and jumped out...
 
As an instructor, I would never want to be in a situation where my student dies and I live in an accident. It would be something to carry the rest of my life, probably with constant thoughts of, could I have done something different, did I do something wrong, did I miss a mistake on the students part. Just would never wish that on anyone, student or instructor.
 
It would be horrible for whoever lives, student or instructor. You're sitting close enough to rub elbows for the entire flight, one person surviving while the other perishes would be a mental shakeup for anyone. I think the worse scenario personally is Pilot surviving and losing a family member, like the Mooney crash at MYF a few months ago. Cant imagine the mental anguish that pilot is in after losing her mother in a crash she survived.
 
If there was ever a case for the instructor to be the one to go down, it was that recent accident in Russia. I wonder how the student is doing?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Yeah.

Now if the CFI had a chute and jumped out...
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When I got my tandem rating they taught us that if the plane has a problem low and you can get out but wouldn't have time to hook up the passenger to leave them. Don't think it has ever happened. Theory is you are one less fatality. Morbid that they say it, on the other hand that they feel it is necessary to remind people to save their own lives is an interesting bit and I guess reflects well on humanity. Let's go to the lifeboats, no pushing, no shoving. Women and children first, we'll need something to eat.:eek::rolleyes2:
 
Jaybird180 said:
On a dual flight and something goes awry, do you think it's Karmic Justice for the CFI to give his/ her life for the mistake? (Assuming you believe in such a thing)
Click to expand...

No, and personally I think this is a crazy concept. CFI's aren't supermen, they're human beings. Everything in life carries some amount of risk.

I figure it's my personal responsibility to manage the risk I expose myself to. That included the choice of learning how to fly.

And our universe clearly doesn't believe in the concept of instant karma. There are plenty of DUI-related auto crashes where the drunk survives and the innocents don't to easily prove that.
 
NoHeat said:
CFIT on a night cross country lesson. Two people seated inches apart, and one survives. I wonder what was different for them.

Anybody know about the shoulder harnesses in a C172S? Is it possible that they could have been adjusted well for one seat but not the other?

Harnesses must be a great help in a crash like this. Airbags even more so. I trained in planes that had just a lap belt, and it did worry me.
Click to expand...
maybe flying down the valley at night, below the ridge line, wasn't such a great idea?....:dunno:

and ya bout the part with the shoulder harness....or lack of wearing one. :yesnod:
 
StinkBug said:
It would be horrible for whoever lives, student or instructor. You're sitting close enough to rub elbows for the entire flight, one person surviving while the other perishes would be a mental shakeup for anyone. I think the worse scenario personally is Pilot surviving and losing a family member, like the Mooney crash at MYF a few months ago. Cant imagine the mental anguish that pilot is in after losing her mother in a crash she survived.
Click to expand...

That reminds me of the one couple years ago where the pilot lost his mom in the Chesapeake Bay. They survived the ditching but he had to leave her body to swim to shore. She died of injuries a couple hours after the crash and probably could have survived with medical attention.

The husband in the above case didnt do right by his wife's piloting skill, nor his own. He admitted they have a habit of coming in too fast in a Porsche Mooney.
 
Jim_R said:
No, and personally I think this is a crazy concept. CFI's aren't supermen, they're human beings. Everything in life carries some amount of risk.

I figure it's my personal responsibility to manage the risk I expose myself to. That included the choice of learning how to fly.

And our universe clearly doesn't believe in the concept of instant karma. There are plenty of DUI-related auto crashes where the drunk survives and the innocents don't to easily prove that.
Click to expand...

Okay, you don't believe in Karma -fine. It's just a concept may or may not be "just".

Keep this in mind: Stats bear out that being a student pilot is a relatively "safe" thing to do, or so we're told; it's relatively safer than being a Private Pilot. So why do insurance companies require additional premium for a privately owned airplane used to give dual instruction? It seems they think the activity carries additional risk. The rates are higher still if the CFI allows the student to solo his personally owned aircraft.:hairraise: The insurance companies also apply this logic for a pilot-rated student....unless I've been disinformed.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Okay, you don't believe in Karma -fine. It's just a concept may or may not be "just".

Keep this in mind: Stats bear out that being a student pilot is a relatively "safe" thing to do, or so we're told; it's relatively safer than being a Private Pilot. So why do insurance companies require additional premium for a privately owned airplane used to give dual instruction? It seems they think the activity carries additional risk. The rates are higher still if the CFI allows the student to solo his personally owned aircraft.:hairraise: The insurance companies also apply this logic for a pilot-rated student....unless I've been disinformed.
Click to expand...
Risk of aircraft damage does not equal risk of injury or death. Lots of ways for a student to damage a plane without injuring themselves.
 
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