Install an AHRS App on your phone -- Now.

dmspilot said:
No, phone sensors are not meant to be used in an aircraft and are fooled just as easily as your inner ear.
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THANK YOU! Drives me nuts when people bust out some POS phone app on an airliner or my plane and think it is just as good as an actual artificial horizon.

MarkH said:
That is true, this is a highly flawed tool for use in flight, it should be used in conjunction with your knowledge from partial panel training.
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I would actually advise against a phone app. Rely on your training with compass, altitude indicator, ball, etc. Having a phone app is just going to add an irrelevant and confusing data point
 
Might be better off taping a string to the dash with a weight attached to the other end.
 
Like everyone else has said NO, NO, NO, and NO!! Your phone is as useless as the instruments you just lost.

Practice Partial Panel every few flights to keep your skills sharp and do an IPC with a CFI at least once a year if not every six months.

The one of biggest killers in GA is pilot proficiency. Pilots typically have A type personalities. So they will brush off the notion that “they” don’t need any training.
 
Nobody has mentioned the Stratus 2S with Foreflight! I have the synthetic vision and it is absolutely a backup system. In the few years I have had this system, it has never once failed. I trust it more than my vacuum pump. Now having said that, I do only fly IFR with reference to the panel stuff but the second I go IMC I turn on the synthetic vision for backup. My Comanche does not have a backup vacuum pump so I am counting the days until it craps out. Then a pair of G5s will go in.
 
And what about us VFR Pilots. We don’t have partial panel training, not proficiency checks, etc. And with all the talk about safety, some people still manage to make poor decisions for a variety of reasons to fly VFR into IMC. I don’t want to be one of them, but it seems like many “safe” pilots here, including a bunch of the CFIs I have talked to, have inadvertently ended up in IMC.

Not everyone is talking about flying into hard IMC and using a phone as an instrument in such hard and continuous conditions. But to have an aid to situational awareness that would not exist otherwise is a benefit.
Sure I can keep the wings level using the turn coordinator only, and altitude using the altimeter, but that does not help me find an airport in poor vis without a VOR (or even in an electrical failure where the stratux and iPad would still work). Synthetic Vision helps me find a place to land, check to see which airport has the best weather, and avoid any obstacles, mountains, or towers along the way. Not a panacea, but better than nothing.
 
Matthew Rogers said:
And what about us VFR Pilots. We don’t have partial panel training, not proficiency checks, etc. And with all the talk about safety, some people still manage to make poor decisions for a variety of reasons to fly VFR into IMC. I don’t want to be one of them, but it seems like many “safe” pilots here, including a bunch of the CFIs I have talked to, have inadvertently ended up in IMC.
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As has been alluded to, attitude instrument flying (what you do with a full panel) is an extremely perishable skill. I wouldn't expect many VFR pilots to be able to do a reasonable job in inadvertent IMC on a full panel. I also think the FAA has long since lost sight of that reality, based on the combination of testing requirements and a lack of follow-up proficiency requirements.

Seems to me the best way would be to use the U of IL technique developed in the 1950s, and let the inherent stability of the airplane do the heavy lifting. All that requires is a turn needle, a little training, and the ability to sit on your hands.

I've got that info on another computer...I'll see if I can post it later today.
 
Stewartb said:
Garmin Pilot/GDL39-3D synthetic vision is amazing. If you guys don't think it could help? You must not have much experience with it.
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I have enough experience with it to know I don’t want to rely on it in IMC. Unless you calibrate it before your emergency, AND it doesn’t lose its calibration, it’ll kill you just as fast as not having it. Faster if you can fly a partial panel in IMC. I’ve only played with it a few flights and it lost calibration every time at least once.
 
Gmonnig said:
Nobody has mentioned the Stratus 2S with Foreflight! I have the synthetic vision and it is absolutely a backup system. In the few years I have had this system, it has never once failed. I trust it more than my vacuum pump. Now having said that, I do only fly IFR with reference to the panel stuff but the second I go IMC I turn on the synthetic vision for backup. My Comanche does not have a backup vacuum pump so I am counting the days until it craps out. Then a pair of G5s will go in.
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no one mentioned ForeFlight with a Stratus 2S by name because it isn't any different that everything else that was mentioned.
 
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Gmonnig said:
Nobody has mentioned the Stratus 2S with Foreflight! I have the synthetic vision and it is absolutely a backup system. In the few years I have had this system, it has never once failed. I trust it more than my vacuum pump. Now having said that, I do only fly IFR with reference to the panel stuff but the second I go IMC I turn on the synthetic vision for backup. My Comanche does not have a backup vacuum pump so I am counting the days until it craps out. Then a pair of G5s will go in.
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During my instrument training my instructor asked me what I’d do if I lost my vacuum...I told him/showed him my stratus 2s display. He had never seen one (and I think he was skeptical) so he said,”show me.” We spent the entire day with me under the hood flying approach after approach with every single steam gauge covered using just the stratus...worked great and he went out and bought a 2s the next day.
 
Like others, I disagree with the title of this thread. Relying on a smartphone's internal sensors for backup attitude information probably is not a wise course of action. But: the suggestion that in today's day and age any serious instrument-rated owner-pilot flying in IMC ought to have a backup is a good one.

A decade ago or even less, a single vacuum pump and mechanical gyro was a pretty common setup. That's starting to look pretty hard to justify given the crop of low-cost, solid state electronic attitude indicators out there. If nothing else Dynon makes a "pop-in" ADI/"EFIS" which is both externally powered and has a battery backup for under $900. Of course the AHRS on a device like a Stratus 2 is another option. There are good, low or reasonably priced panel-mounted avionics now which are far more reliable than the failed system which claimed the life of this pilot.

On the positive side, from what I've seen, GA is very rapidly moving away from relying on vacuum gyros and adopting the new tech. I'm very much hoping to see a downward trend in these types of accidents thanks to this low-cost technology.
 
Salty said:
I have enough experience with it to know I don’t want to rely on it in IMC. Unless you calibrate it before your emergency, AND it doesn’t lose its calibration, it’ll kill you just as fast as not having it. Faster if you can fly a partial panel in IMC. I’ve only played with it a few flights and it lost calibration every time at least once.
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Your choice. I’ve been playing with it for years and I stand by my comment. It’s amazing. When talking to my GDL’s ADHRS I can fly through mountain passes and the screen looks just like what’s out the windows. It’s so good I chose a G3X Touch for my exp Cub, and that’s even more amazing. Neither has ever had any “calibration” problems. I don’t even know what that means.

I can be half way to wherever a commercial airliner is taking me and my iPhone or iPad with GP will usually initiate and provide me full function even from an aisle seat. From the seat of my Cessna with the GDL39-3D or the Cub with the G3X? Awesome tool.
 
Stewartb said:
Your choice. I’ve been playing with it for years and I stand by my comment. It’s amazing. When talking to my GDL’s ADHRS I can fly through mountain passes and the screen looks just like what’s out the windows. It’s so good I chose a G3X Touch for my exp Cub, and that’s even more amazing. Neither has ever had any “calibration” problems. I don’t even know what that means.

I can be half way to wherever a commercial airliner is taking me and my iPhone or iPad with GP will usually initiate and provide me full function even from an aisle seat. From the seat of my Cessna with the GDL39-3D or the Cub with the G3X? Awesome tool.
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So tell me what I’m doing wrong. I’ve got a gdl39 3D and the synthetic vision on mine is not level unless you hit calibrate while level. And it frequently gets out of whack after some time.

But even beyond that there is no way in hell Im trusting a Garmin Pilot database to fly near terrain I can’t see.
 
Salty said:
So tell me what I’m doing wrong. I’ve got a gdl39 3D and the synthetic vision on mine is not level unless you hit calibrate while level. And it frequently gets out of whack after some time.

But even beyond that there is no way in hell Im trusting a Garmin Pilot database to fly near terrain I can’t see.
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Is the terrain database a "Garmin Pilot" database? I thought they (including certified equipment) all used the same source for terrain and obstacle data, the NASA/US Geological Survey's SRTM 1 Arc-Second Global Terrain Elevation data for terrain and the FAA's Digital Obstruction File (DOF) for obstructions.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Is the terrain database a "Garmin Pilot" database? I thought they (including certified equipment) all used the same source for terrain and obstacle data, the NASA/US Geological Survey's SRTM 1 Arc-Second Global Terrain Elevation data for terrain and the FAA's Digital Obstruction File (DOF) for obstructions.
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I don’t think nasa or the FAA is making sure garmin has the latest data uploaded to my device.
 
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