In the yellow arc

455 Bravo Uniform

455 Bravo Uniform

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455 Bravo Uniform
For you who have enough power to enter the yellow arc at cruise altitude, do you do it regularly or always stay in the green?

For those that are in the yellow part-time, what flight conditions cause you to throttle back?
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
For you who have enough power to enter the yellow arc at cruise altitude, do you do it regularly or always stay in the green?

For those that are in the yellow part-time, what flight conditions cause you to throttle back?
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Shallow descent will yield redline on the airspeed. I stay there unless moderate turbulence is encountered.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
Ill get into the yellow in descent when it's smooth (I keep most of cruise power in on the way down). I slow down into the green at the slightest hint of turbulence which usually means just shy transitioning through the cloud base altitude. If its continuous moderate or has severe bumps, I'm at or below Va or Vra.

Its always turbulent below clouds and I always fly above them.

The Pilatus doesn't have a yellow band. :D
 
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Off the top of my head, really old Mooneys are the only certified planes that I can think of that can go yellow arc in level flight at cruise power. What are the others?
 
asicer said:
Off the top of my head, really old Mooneys are the only certified planes that I can think of that can go yellow arc in level flight at cruise power. What are the others?
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Below about 4,000ft, my 310R will push into the yellow at 75% power.
 
My '64 Mooney has a yellow arc that starts at 150 mph. Pretty much whenever you are above 66% power, you are in the arc. (I think in 65 or 66 they upped the arc to 175 mph) If I get into turbulence, I just throttle it back. Descending takes a little more planning......
 
I quit flying in the yellow arc when I started flying turbine airplanes and realized that the structural equivalent of the yellow arc was above redline in the turbine airplanes.

This was also about the time that Malibus were falling out of the sky due to structural failures that, IIRC, really weren't the fault of the airplane.
 
asicer said:
Off the top of my head, really old Mooneys are the only certified planes that I can think of that can go yellow arc in level flight at cruise power. What are the others?
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Funny you say that. I got a ride last weekend in a 1964 M20C and we were in the yellow at cruise, and that was the reason I formulated the question. But also, I'm looking at a 182 with an IO-470 that I think is yellow-arc capable at full power low altitude cruise.
 
asicer said:
Off the top of my head, really old Mooneys are the only certified planes that I can think of that can go yellow arc in level flight at cruise power. What are the others?
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Diamonds?
 
asicer said:
I've seen DA40's brush up against the yellow arc in level flight but not really enter.
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DA40 I fly sits right at the bottom of yellow(in it) at full power cruise at around 6-7Kft... And it's missing wheel pants too.
 
It's been a while but I seem to remember the DA20 getting into the yellow pretty easily as well.
 
genna said:
DA40 I fly sits right at the bottom of yellow(in it) at full power cruise at around 6-7Kft... And it's missing wheel pants too.
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Let me guess, 2 blade composite scimitar prop? The one I flew so equipped sat right at the green/yellow border at 75% relatively low altitude, but it was so close that it could be debated whether it was in the green or in the yellow.
 
The 310 used to be able to get in the yellow at cruise under certain conditions. I pretty much did like the manual said - it was fun in smooth conditions, if things started to get bumpy (or if I knew bumps were impending) then I would pull back.
 
I come waaaaay too close to these yellow arcs often.

images
 
The Saratoga SP at 8000 plus feet can hit yellow at high cruise power. Very easy to get yellow with any descent. I generally try to stay out unless very smooth.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
asicer said:
Let me guess, 2 blade composite scimitar prop? The one I flew so equipped sat right at the green/yellow border at 75% relatively low altitude, but it was so close that it could be debated whether it was in the green or in the yellow.
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DA40-180 2 blade, don't think it's composite, but not sure. otherwise, yeah. I can get around 138ktas out of it pedal to the metal.. don't remember the kias for sure, but seems like it was just inside the yellow. Perhaps just under.
 
This will burst some bubbles.
I know of at least 4 Light Sport aircraft that can go past the yellow to the red line in straight and level flight.
The Tecnam P92, Tecnam 2004 Bravo, Czech Sport, and the Remos GX will all do it.
In turbulence you throttle back, because to POH says so.
 
IMG_0583.JPG No yellow arc but the Agusta 119 will cruise right up against VNE. You can blow through it in level flight with the right conditions.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Funny you say that. I got a ride last weekend in a 1964 M20C and we were in the yellow at cruise, and that was the reason I formulated the question. But also, I'm looking at a 182 with an IO-470 that I think is yellow-arc capable at full power low altitude cruise.
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You'll rarely see it in the 182. Even with the IO flavor of 470.

IO-550, yeah. You'd see it often and easily.
 
In decent for the T-Arrow, I manage RPM and MP (in that order) to hold right at the edge of the green to touching yellow arc on the way down. In all the hours, never really considered or tried to fly at the yellow arc in straight and level, while having full MP range available.
 
Shepherd said:
This will burst some bubbles.
I know of at least 4 Light Sport aircraft that can go past the yellow to the red line in straight and level flight.
The Tecnam P92, Tecnam 2004 Bravo, Czech Sport, and the Remos GX will all do it.
In turbulence you throttle back, because to POH says so.
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Why were these planes sold with an engine/ prop combination that allows exceeding red line in level cruise?
 
NoHeat said:
Why were these planes sold with an engine/ prop combination that allows exceeding red line in level cruise?
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Because they can.
I know at least one Light Sport with a Vne of 180 kts, and can go into the yellow during a Vx climb at over 1200 ft per minute.
One of the reasons I like many Light Sport aircraft is that they have a higher horsepower to weight ration than the old iron being pushed by the old aircraft manufacturers.
I had a chance to fly this particular E-LSA with a variable pitch prop (not constant speed, variable pitch) and it was stellar.
 
I'm ether max speed shy of NVE or the barber pole, or I'm VA.
 
I have flown in the yellow arc if it's smooth air like the POH says. I don't know what the official definition is, but I assume that "smooth air" means not even light turbulence. I think that one of the LSAs I fly can just barely get into the yellow in cruise.
 
Palmpilot said:
I have flown in the yellow arc if it's smooth air like the POH says. I don't know what the official definition is, but I assume that "smooth air" means not even light turbulence. I think that one of the LSAs I fly can just barely get into the yellow in cruise.
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Bah!

Until you stick someone to the ceiling it's all gravy
 
NoHeat said:
One might as well say they designed a wimpy airframe that would fall apart in level cruise, just because they could.

Having a choice doesn't justify a reckless decision.
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And yet, that's how every big company does risk assessment. Also, you can thank the FAA for this particular problem.
If they had set the Light Sport gross at a reasonable level, instead of trying to swat ultralights, the problem probably wouldn't exist.
Not all the airframes are wimpy, but too many of them are a little on the flimsy side.
 
NoHeat said:
Why were these planes sold with an engine/ prop combination that allows exceeding red line in level cruise?
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The excess power available for that climb would be very handy for hot, high, payload, certified ceiling, etc. Not that in an LSA you want to, or could, do any of that... but principally speaking I don't see anything wrong with having an overpowered aircraft, you just have to be a very competent pilot. And (gasp!) maybe planes like that would benefit from some envelope protection. Part of GAs issue is that our tech is still stuck in the 1960s

NoHeat said:
Having a choice doesn't justify a reckless decision.
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I mean, is it reckless for BMW, Audi, Mercedes, heck even Ford and Chevy to sell cars in the US that will easily blow past most speed limits and get their drivers in legal or physical trouble? As valuable as having power in a car is I see it even more valuable in an aircraft

In the GA world we are (or at least I am) used to a wimpy 500 fpm climb and all flight planning requires active consideration of temps, elevations, loads, etc. I would love to be able to bump that throttle up, hit 3,000 fpm with four people and baggage, get to cruise altitude, and sit their at a nice low leaned out power setting and cruise along at 180 TAS
 
Shepherd said:
Not all the airframes are wimpy, but too many of them are a little on the flimsy side.
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I think many people also misunderstand, or incorrectly equate, a beast powerplant with a solid frame... but that's not always true, and sometimes even the opposite as the quest for weight savings is at odds with the speed regimen
 
Tantalum said:
The excess power available for that climb would be very handy for hot, high, payload, certified ceiling, etc. Not that in an LSA you want to, or could, do any of that... but principally speaking I don't see anything wrong with having an overpowered aircraft, you just have to be a very competent pilot. And (gasp!) maybe planes like that would benefit from some envelope protection. Part of GAs issue is that our tech is still stuck in the 1960s


I mean, is it reckless for BMW, Audi, Mercedes, heck even Ford and Chevy to sell cars in the US that will easily blow past most speed limits and get their drivers in legal or physical trouble? As valuable as having power in a car is I see it even more valuable in an aircraft

In the GA world we are (or at least I am) used to a wimpy 500 fpm climb and all flight planning requires active consideration of temps, elevations, loads, etc. I would love to be able to bump that throttle up, hit 3,000 fpm with four people and baggage, get to cruise altitude, and sit their at a nice low leaned out power setting and cruise along at 180 TAS
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What, you mean reaching 61 mph in first gear to redline is a crazy ability? My plane still accelerates faster on a normal takeoff . . . . .

I'm often near 1000 fpm at takeoff, but it drops to ~500 generally around 8000-9000 msl depending on OAT and pressure. Where does yours hit 500 fpm climb? Winter departures are nice, especially solo with half tanks. :)
 
So... I don't own, but my experience has been in roughly this order

-Warrior
-172
-172 with 180 conversion
-SR20

The 172 with the 180 conversion will rocket out of the pattern when I'm in it alone, but once I get any meaningful altitude I'm somewhere in the 500-700 fpm range for climb. I could push it at Vx and maybe coax more out of it, but then you have CHTs to worry about, etc., and in San Diego it's often on the warmer side of things and I'm rarely alone, usually at least one other person with me. That looks like a Mooney in your Avatar so I would expect your performance is superior to any of the 4 planes I mentioned above
 
asicer said:
Off the top of my head, really old Mooneys are the only certified planes that I can think of that can go yellow arc in level flight at cruise power. What are the others?
Click to expand...

The V35B I fly is in the yellow at high power cruise setting.
 
asicer said:
Off the top of my head, really old Mooneys are the only certified planes that I can think of that can go yellow arc in level flight at cruise power. What are the others?
Click to expand...

My Old Mooney cruises at the same speed as many Really Old Mooneys; they are in the yellow at 150 mph, while I am solidly in the green (my Yellow starts at 175 mph, not somewhere that I cruise). And I do that on only 180 hp.
 
Shepherd said:
Because they can.
I know at least one Light Sport with a Vne of 180 kts, and can go into the yellow during a Vx climb at over 1200 ft per minute.
One of the reasons I like many Light Sport aircraft is that they have a higher horsepower to weight ration than the old iron being pushed by the old aircraft manufacturers.
I had a chance to fly this particular E-LSA with a variable pitch prop (not constant speed, variable pitch) and it was stellar.
Click to expand...

Is this also using the horsepower loophole where whatever you want for takeoff is fine but you're supposed to pull it back to the legal limit once established in cruise?

(Example: Carbon Cub)
 
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