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CC268

CC268

Final Approach
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CC268
Got the instrument written out of the way in July and passed with a 93%. Now onto the flying part! Probably going to fly 3-5 days a week and really knock it out. Doing it in my Cherokee 140 so no GPS unfortunately.
 
CC268 said:
Got the instrument written out of the way in July and passed with a 93%. Now onto the flying part! Probably going to fly 3-5 days a week and really knock it out. Doing it in my Cherokee 140 so no GPS unfortunately.
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Have fun. Whereabouts are you based?
 
CC268 said:
Got the instrument written out of the way in July and passed with a 93%. Now onto the flying part! Probably going to fly 3-5 days a week and really knock it out. Doing it in my Cherokee 140 so no GPS unfortunately.
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Talk to the CFIIs and see if they'll train you in actual IMC when you have those conditions. If one says no, move on to another until you find one that does. 3-5 days a week is fantastic for instrument training. Good luck!
 
CC268 said:
Got the instrument written out of the way in July and passed with a 93%. Now onto the flying part! Probably going to fly 3-5 days a week and really knock it out. Doing it in my Cherokee 140 so no GPS unfortunately.
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Congrats! I did better on my instrument written that either my private or commercial heh...

I put a GTN 650 and a bunch of other stuff in the plane before I took my instrument checkride. But, if you don't have ~$15-20K to spare, then do it with what you got.

I was doing about 3-5 times a week when possible, but mostly to get the cross country time done. Make sure your instructor covers the bravo pattern. It's extremely helpful to get used to that kind of workload when flying. And, it REALLY helps to understand constant speed climbs, descents, timed turns..etc.
 
Take some time to go over the logbooks for the plane to ensure it is IFR legal and current. That way you'll be ready to go when a chance to get some actual time during your training comes up, and ready to go over the logbooks when you get to the oral part of the check ride. And clean your windshield every week even if you don't think it's dirty. I didn't do that and when I finally flew an hour without foggles on at the end of my IFR training (on the way to the check ride, actually) I was appalled at the bugs it had accumulated while I was under the hood.
 
mscard88 said:
Talk to the CFIIs and see if they'll train you in actual IMC when you have those conditions. If one says no, move on to another until you find one that does. 3-5 days a week is fantastic for instrument training. Good luck!
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I have probably one of the best instrument instructors in AZ. He is a Vietnam vet and has about 8000 hours of flight time, 6000 which is instruction and 3000 is instrument instruction. He sort of specializes in instrument training.

One thing I like about him is he was pretty clear that we won’t be just going out to the practice area to do hood work. We’re gonna fly cross countries and really learn to fly in the system. And he really likes to get all his students real IMC even if it means going to California to fly in the marine layer (getting IMC in AZ isn’t exactly easy).

He is also a former DPE.

Here is his site in case anyone is curious about him:
http://flightskills.com/index.html
 
Caramon13 said:
Congrats! I did better on my instrument written that either my private or commercial heh...

I put a GTN 650 and a bunch of other stuff in the plane before I took my instrument checkride. But, if you don't have ~$15-20K to spare, then do it with what you got.

I was doing about 3-5 times a week when possible, but mostly to get the cross country time done. Make sure your instructor covers the bravo pattern. It's extremely helpful to get used to that kind of workload when flying. And, it REALLY helps to understand constant speed climbs, descents, timed turns..etc.
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Yea there is just no way we would put that kind of money in a 30k airplane. I’m really trying to talk my dad into a Vans RV.
 
CC268 said:
Yea there is just no way we would put that kind of money in a 30k airplane. I’m really trying to talk my dad into a Vans RV.
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Yep, I'm seriously considering experimentals/homebuilt for my next aircraft (many years from now). Certified just has too many stupid expensive costs and barriers.
 
iamtheari said:
Take some time to go over the logbooks for the plane to ensure it is IFR legal and current. That way you'll be ready to go when a chance to get some actual time during your training comes up, and ready to go over the logbooks when you get to the oral part of the check ride. And clean your windshield every week even if you don't think it's dirty. I didn't do that and when I finally flew an hour without foggles on at the end of my IFR training (on the way to the check ride, actually) I was appalled at the bugs it had accumulated while I was under the hood.
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I know the logbooks on my airplane like the back of my hand. I’ve spent hours going through them and have an entire Excel spreadsheet that details every AD for the airframe, engine, prop, all the appliances, all inspections (annual, static/altimeter, ELT, oil changes, etc). I write down how all the ADs were complied with as well so I can easily reference and find them in my logs. It’s all conditional formatted as well so if an AD or inspection is coming up it highlighted the due date or tach time it is due on the sheet.

The static/altimeter IFR certification expires last year so we’re getting that done next week. Thankfully we have an avionics shop on field so it’s very easy to have done.
 
Caramon13 said:
Yep, I'm seriously considering experimentals/homebuilt for my next aircraft (many years from now). Certified just has too many stupid expensive costs and barriers.
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Yea it’s ridiculous...
 
CC268 said:
Yea there is just no way we would put that kind of money in a 30k airplane. I’m really trying to talk my dad into a Vans RV.
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There is something OG about flying Slant A
 
You need to get your plane IFR Certed. In addition to the suggestion that you would want to get some actual in training if it presents itself, the long XC has to be done under IFR. There's an VMC exemption for airplanes barred from their type certification from IFR operation but that doesn't excuse you not doing the 91.411 (IFR altimeter/encode test) test or your 90 day VOR test which is likely the only thing you might be missing over the standard VFR stuff (annual, 41.113 transponder, etc...).
 
flyingron said:
You need to get your plane IFR Certed. In addition to the suggestion that you would want to get some actual in training if it presents itself, the long XC has to be done under IFR. There's an VMC exemption for airplanes barred from their type certification from IFR operation but that doesn't excuse you not doing the 91.411 (IFR altimeter/encode test) test or your 90 day VOR test.
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*big sigh*...yes I am aware and everything you just wrote has been discussed with my instructor.
 
flyingron said:
No DME? I flew /A for a long time. I still have the DME but now that I have an IFR GPS it has never been turned on.
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Nope no DME. Wish I had GPS, but the cost is just prohibitive for us (my dad and I) at this time.
 
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<--- /A here with the same airplane.

Caught a lot of crap for installing a DME in mine but like you, I'm not willing to put a five dollar shine on a two dollar shoe.
 
CC268 said:
/U actually?
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I see you're in Phoenix. Not a lot of approaches for you to do but at least there's an ILS at Gateway. When you head for california to find some weather talk your CFI into going to Los Alamitos, KSLI, and shoot some GCA's.
 
luvflyin said:
I see you're in Phoenix. Not a lot of approaches for you to do but at least there's an ILS at Gateway. When you head for california to find some weather talk your CFI into going to Los Alamitos, KSLI, and shoot some GCA's.
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Yep...I am well aware. We had like a 3 page discussion on here previously about my airplane.
 
Timbeck2 said:
<--- /A here with the same airplane.

Caught a lot of crap for installing a DME in mine but like you, I'm not willing to put a five dollar shine on a two dollar shoe.
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Yea...I mean it is certainly an option. My guess is it is still quite pricey to do so. Cutting the panel, installation, etc...

Worst case I just go train in an airplane with a GPS. But so far my instructor hasn't shared any concern about it. My dad owns the plane and I pay him a monthly fee + pay for my fuel - he is exceptionally frugal so it is very difficult to get him to spend any money on the plane unless it is absolutely necessary.
 
Not having DME(or GPS to substitute it) sucks for IFR training. You're missing out on a lot of approaches which would be useful otherwise, and you're making your life harder than it should be when you have to time most approaches (and/or use two VOR heads to identify fixes on approaches).
But it does make you a better instrument pilot.

I would spend the 1-1.5k and install a basic IFR GPS.
 
mtuomi said:
Not having DME(or GPS to substitute it) sucks for IFR training. You're missing out on a lot of approaches which would be useful otherwise, and you're making your life harder than it should be when you have to time most approaches (and/or use two VOR heads to identify fixes on approaches).
But it does make you a better instrument pilot.

I would spend the 1-1.5k and install a basic IFR GPS.
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What GPS are your referring to? Wasn't aware there were IFR GPS's that "cheap"
 
CC268 said:
What GPS are your referring to? Wasn't aware there were IFR GPS's that "cheap"
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You can find old Apollo GX stuff for $300-500. Databases still available from Jeppesen. Easy to install too.
 
CC268 said:
Like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/APOLLO-GX-55-GPS-FLYBUDDY-/272865050472

Or maybe a KLN89?
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That's what I had in my 150 (GX55). Not approach certified but en-route (so you can file direct), and it substitutes NDBs and DMEs on approaches. And it makes DME arcs a breeze. etc etc.
It made IFR training _a lot_ easier.

btw. you missed out on great actual IMC, all of northern AZ was covered in nice friendly low non-convective overcast for the past few days.
 
mtuomi said:
That's what I had in my 150 (GX55). Not approach certified but en-route (so you can file direct), and it substitutes NDBs and DMEs on approaches. And it makes DME arcs a breeze. etc etc.
It made IFR training _a lot_ easier.

btw. you missed out on great actual IMC, all of northern AZ was covered in nice friendly low non-convective overcast for the past few days.
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Hmm...well..I will have to discuss this with my dad. Maybe I can just buy it and pay for it.

Sure I can go train in another airplane, but training in my own airplane could potentially save $3k-5k...
 
CC268 said:
Hmm...well..I will have to discuss this with my dad. Maybe I can just buy it and pay for it.

Sure I can go train in another airplane, but training in my own airplane could potentially save $3k-5k...
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Being able to file /G makes flying in the system much easier in the long run too.
 
mtuomi said:
Being able to file /G makes flying in the system much easier in the long run too.
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I really wish a 430 was viable, but I just can't see spending 10k for a GPS on a 30k airplane. Seems absolutely insane. I mean 5k would be MAYBE doable.

I have really thought about selling my motocross bike (I hate to do it as I grew up racing and have owned a bike since I was 5 years old...), but it might be able to get me a 430W if I could figure it out with my dad.
 
Boy I wish Dynon's stuff was certified for the Cherokee already...amazing what you get for your money from them. Although I assume you would still need an IFR certified WAAS GPS like a GTN right?
 
Regarding the avionics upgrade options:

If your plane can do the required three different types of approaches and passes the IFR inspections, then stick with it until you finish your rating and decide much later on. If it cannot, then learn how to fly by instruments in your plane but rent a plane that can do the required approaches for a couple lessons including the cross-country and rent the same plane for the check ride. Flying the plane is basically the same no matter which type of approach you are doing, with the main difference being that a GPS approach gives you fewer things to worry about. (No need to listen and identify the VOR or localizer. No false glideslopes. Less jittery CDI. Etc.)

If you can fly your /A plane well and you can correctly operate the GPS in a /G plane, you can fly the /G plane just as well. Approaches are just a matter of following needles. The real instruments you are learning to fly with are round (six-pack plus engine instruments, CDI, and clock), not square (NAV/COMM, GPS, etc.)
 
iamtheari said:
Regarding the avionics upgrade options:

If your plane can do the required three different types of approaches and passes the IFR inspections, then stick with it until you finish your rating and decide much later on. If it cannot, then learn how to fly by instruments in your plane but rent a plane that can do the required approaches for a couple lessons including the cross-country and rent the same plane for the check ride. Flying the plane is basically the same no matter which type of approach you are doing, with the main difference being that a GPS approach gives you fewer things to worry about. (No need to listen and identify the VOR or localizer. No false glideslopes. Less jittery CDI. Etc.)

If you can fly your /A plane well and you can correctly operate the GPS in a /G plane, you can fly the /G plane just as well. Approaches are just a matter of following needles. The real instruments you are learning to fly with are round (six-pack plus engine instruments, CDI, and clock), not square (NAV/COMM, GPS, etc.)
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I already know the airplane can do the three approaches needed. The previous owner did them all. The altimeter/static system check just expired, but like I said that will get done this following week and the airplane will be good to go.

More and more I have realized the reality of actually flying a truly solid IFR capable airplane doesn’t come cheap. I realize my Cherokee is not the best IFR platform but it should be perfectly fine for the training and I will let Bob my instructor make that call.

Realistically I’ve realized the only way I will ever be able to really fly capable IFR airplanes is to fly for a career, because I just don’t have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on an airplane.

Or I go take tens of thousands of dollars out in loans and go fly some fancy glass panel at a flight school ha

I’m really trying to do this debt free but it sure isn’t easy. Debt is the American dream now anyways right??
 
iamtheari said:
Regarding the avionics upgrade options:

If your plane can do the required three different types of approaches and passes the IFR inspections, then stick with it until you finish your rating and decide much later on. If it cannot, then learn how to fly by instruments in your plane but rent a plane that can do the required approaches for a couple lessons including the cross-country and rent the same plane for the check ride. Flying the plane is basically the same no matter which type of approach you are doing, with the main difference being that a GPS approach gives you fewer things to worry about. (No need to listen and identify the VOR or localizer. No false glideslopes. Less jittery CDI. Etc.)

If you can fly your /A plane well and you can correctly operate the GPS in a /G plane, you can fly the /G plane just as well. Approaches are just a matter of following needles. The real instruments you are learning to fly with are round (six-pack plus engine instruments, CDI, and clock), not square (NAV/COMM, GPS, etc.)
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Last I knew the requirements were two non precision and one precision. An ILS, a LOC, and a VOR would have sufficed.
That was a ways back and not sure if requirements have changed.
 
Kritchlow said:
Last I knew the requirements were two non precision and one precision. An ILS, a LOC, and a VOR would have sufficed.
That was a ways back and not sure if requirements have changed.
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I am almost positive you are correct
 
Kritchlow said:
Last I knew the requirements were two non precision and one precision. An ILS, a LOC, and a VOR would have sufficed.
That was a ways back and not sure if requirements have changed.
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On my check ride, the WAAS GPS was mandatory because the RWY 13 ILS was out of service for some reason and the RWY 31 glideslope was out due to the runway being shortened. The nearest airport with an operable ILS would have been 85nm away. Without an available ILS, I had to fly an LPV to meet the required precision approach. I believe it's still true that an ILS, LOC, and VOR are enough, but that doesn't mean they're all available locally. I suspect the OP will have no trouble finding all three nearby for his check ride.
 
iamtheari said:
On my check ride, the WAAS GPS was mandatory because the RWY 13 ILS was out of service for some reason and the RWY 31 glideslope was out due to the runway being shortened. The nearest airport with an operable ILS would have been 85nm away. Without an available ILS, I had to fly an LPV to meet the required precision approach. I believe it's still true that an ILS, LOC, and VOR are enough, but that doesn't mean they're all available locally. I suspect the OP will have no trouble finding all three nearby for his check ride.
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Enlighten me as an old timer...
A GPS WAAS is considered a precision approach?
 
Kritchlow said:
Enlighten me as an old timer...
A GPS WAAS is considered a precision approach?
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For check ride purposes, it can be. Quoth the ACS (and PTS before it):

Task B. Precision Approach

The applicant must accomplish a precision approach to the decision altitude (DA) using aircraft navigational equipment for centerline and vertical guidance in simulated or actual instrument conditions. Acceptable instrument approaches for this part of the practical test are the ILS and GLS. In addition, if the installed equipment and database is current and qualified for IFR flight and approaches to LPV minima, an LPV minima approach can be flown to demonstrate precision approach proficiency if the LPV DA is equal to or less than 300 feet HAT.
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