IFR Ground School

USAF JD

USAF JD

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Nov 2, 2011
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125
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Crystal Lake
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Jeff
I’m looking at starting the IFR process and am looking for opinions of the home study courses. I used King on my PPSEL and thought the videos prepared me well for the tests. I was told it is best to get the written done before I start the flying portion. Any experiences good or bad would be helpful before shelling out the cash.

Thanks!
 
I used John and Martha's Cessna-centric course for my IR, and why typical King stuff, it's pretty good and I scored in the mid-90s on my IR written. I still go back to their book from time to time, though there are other books that are good references as well.

Full disclosure: I'm going to be doing my commercial this year, and I don't think I could stand sitting through another King course. Time to move on for me.

Ron Machado's Instrument book is good, but it is so damned cluttered with his jokes and puns that it's time consuming to read.

Good luck to you!
 
Much as I personally dislike listening to them on video, if you liked the King course for PP and did well with it, don't fix something that ain't broke -- stick with them for the IR.

As for books, I agree with Bob Gardner's book for knowledge material, but you can skip Dogan's until you start the flight training, at which point it becomes invaluable. Dogan's book is the basis for the PIC 10-day program in which I have been teaching for the last six years, and it works. I also agree with Stan about Rod Machado -- he seems to me more interested in being popular and entertaining than teaching people important lessons.
 
Ron Levy said:
As for books, I agree with Bob Gardner's book for knowledge material, but you can skip Dogan's until you start the flight training, at which point it becomes invaluable. Dogan's book is the basis for the PIC 10-day program in which I have been teaching for the last six years, and it works. I also agree with Stan about Rod Machado -- he seems to me more interested in being popular and entertaining than teaching people important lessons.
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If I had to do it again i'd take the PIC 10 day program. Although I am set to finish with the minimum 40 hours of time, its taken me 5 months to get this far which is frustrating.
 
I used the King online course and supplemented it with the Dauntless practice software. I ended up going through all of the lessons twice, something my 60 year old brain needed. The first time through was too drawn out. The second time through my wife was out of town for a few days so I sequestered myself in front of the computer and then went straight to the Dauntless software and kept practicing until I was in the 90's consistently and then went and took the written.
 
I swore I would not do another John & Martha school after the last one but I agree with Ron. It worked.:rofl:

I have the attention span of a gnat so the videos work well for me when I’m on the treadmill held captive. With any luck I can learn all the classroom material, pass my written, and do a 10 day course over the summer. At the same time, I am looking at a few upgrades to the Cheetah’s panel.

I have been lurking for a while and I just want to thank everyone on this board for sharing the knowledge and experiences.

Time to get the plastic out and call King.
 
I'm about midway through the MS Aviation (http://msaviation.enldev.net/) IR course. So far it's been pretty good. I'm using it on my iPad so it's convenient. I also got a set of test questions and am only doing so-so on those. I don't know if that's attributable to the course or the student...

There have been a couple of hiccups in the course ware and it looks like they didn't increase the resolution of the material for the iPad so the illustrations are a bit grainy.

John
 
I too am working on the written portion of my IR. I too, had no trouble with the Kings and their corny humor.

If it weren't for the fact that you can't just get King DVD's and plug them into your DVD player, I would shell out the high dollar for their course. If I'm reading their catalog correctly, you have to do the course online, or download it to your computer and do it from the PC.

I just want to load a DVD in the player and kick back.

I have Bob Gardner's book, the Instrument Flying Handbook and the ASA study book. I'm working through all this, but the process is as slow as molasses. I would like to have some DVD's to plug in.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I have Bob Gardner's book, the Instrument Flying Handbook and the ASA study book. I'm working through all this, but the process is as slow as molasses. I would like to have some DVD's to plug in.
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I spent about 2 hours a day, 2 days a week just reading. The secret is strong coffee.
 
USAF JD said:
I’m looking at starting the IFR process and am looking for opinions of the home study courses. I used King on my PPSEL and thought the videos prepared me well for the tests. I was told it is best to get the written done before I start the flying portion. Any experiences good or bad would be helpful before shelling out the cash.

Thanks!
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I disagree with the person who told you to get the written out of the way first. You need some exposure to the IFR system and navaids before some of the terminology used on the written even makes sense.

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
I disagree with the person who told you to get the written out of the way first. You need some exposure to the IFR system and navaids before some of the terminology used on the written even makes sense.

Bob Gardner
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Sidebar: Bob, I just received your book "The Complete Advanced Pilot" today from Austin Flight Check Training Solutions for training for my commercial. It looks like a great book!
 
I just got in the mail, a brochure for a local 2 day weekend ground school coming up next month. Would this be worth taking since I have already taken the King IR course, but have not taken any sample tests nor the written?

I'm thinking it may serve as a good review and get me to complete the written...
 
skidoo said:
I just got in the mail, a brochure for a local 2 day weekend ground school coming up next month. Would this be worth taking since I have already taken the King IR course, but have not taken any sample tests nor the written?
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Yes, it would.
I'm thinking it may serve as a good review and get me to complete the written...
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Exactly what those courses are good for.
 
USAF JD said:
I used King on my PPSEL and thought the videos prepared me well for the tests. I was told it is best to get the written done before I start the flying portion.
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I did exactly as you propose: I did the Instrument knowledge test before starting the flying portion, and it worked well for me. I did not have any problems of the kind Bob suggests.

If you liked the King PPL video-software product, go ahead and do it again for the Instrument. It worked for me. If I recall correctly, I got 97% on the PPL and 98% on the Instrument knowledge tests, relying mostly on the King products, supplemented by a bunch of books (like the FAA books for weather and instrument flying). For me the King software was good enough that I could have skipped the books entirely and still passed easily, although I wanted more.
 
bobmrg said:
I disagree with the person who told you to get the written out of the way first. You need some exposure to the IFR system and navaids before some of the terminology used on the written even makes sense.

Bob Gardner
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Bob, I also received my Complete Advanced Pilot book! What do you recommend for test prep after you're done with the book?
 
One product that is out there that I find handy is ASA's Prepware products for the iOS devices. I have it on both my iPhone and my iPad and it allow me to do practice tests whenever I have a few minutes or longer to kill.

There are many others out there to help you do the prep. This is one of the better ones for "portability".
 
MBDiagMan said:
How about the test prep that's in the book?
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Generally, by "test prep," folks mean practice tests or material which focuses on the actual test questions and the correct answers to those specific questions. Bob's book is excellent, but it doesn't have that.
 
I used Bob's book "The Complete Advanced Pilot" and the Sporty's DVDs. The DVDs are informative but down a few coffee's before settling in. I just dusted off the book again to prep for the Commercial written.

Test prep software is a must but the study material and cockpit is where you do the learning that's going to stick.
 
Ron Levy said:
Generally, by "test prep," folks mean practice tests or material which focuses on the actual test questions and the correct answers to those specific questions. Bob's book is excellent, but it doesn't have that.
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Well, those are in Bob's book. There are practice questions for the commercial AND the instrument in The Complete Advanced Pilot.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Well, those are in Bob's book. There are practice questions for the commercial AND the instrument in The Complete Advanced Pilot.
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There are some sample questions, but not all of the questions, and while the answers to those sample questions are there, the explanations of how the correct answers are arrived at are not. The test prep books have all that.
 
Mike5250 said:
Bob, I also received my Complete Advanced Pilot book! What do you recommend for test prep after you're done with the book?
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Full disclosure: I do not work for ASA....but I have been associated with them for over 30 years. They have an Instrument Rating Prepware (book and CD-ROM) for $49.95, and if you are feeling flush they have a Virtual Test Prep (CD and DVD) for $199.95. Try Ken Lane at www.AustinFlightCheck.com.

Bob
 
Ron Levy said:
There are some sample questions, but not all of the questions, and while the answers to those sample questions are there, the explanations of how the correct answers are arrived at are not. The test prep books have all that.
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Okay, now I understand what you're saying.:idea: I do have the ASA Test Prep book and plan on using it at the end of the study cycle before the test.
 
Make sure you get a copy of the Instrument Procedures Handbook (FAA publication). In my opinion, it is the best written FAA publication out there and helped me understand IFR procedures better than any other book did.
 
These suggestions show how varied one's learning style can be, so my first advice is not to overlook what worked best for you in the past.

IMO a big miss in all the advice is overlooking an Instrument ground school course. See if there aren't 2/3/4 folks in your area who at least aspire to an IR and for whom a ground school course would be a good intro (and perhaps 'test' of how genuine their interest), then approach a CFII. I created this 'ad hoc' option with 2 other PP's and the value of it was one can have dialogue about unclear issues, get a broad picture on flying in the system, and it can be independent of/before or after your book/DVD studies. At a per-hour instructional rate (we did 4 evenings of 3 hrs each) and spreading the cost among several students, this can be affordable and an excellent supplement to the otherwise isolated reading/viewing activities. More learning methodologies are always better than fewer.

Disagree about Dogan's book not being helpful until IR flight training has begun. Most chapters begin with a real-world description of a specific flight that relates to the chapter's topic, and this helps make the chapter's content meaningful to the reader/student. In fact, before wading into the texts intended to prepare you for the written, reading Dogan's chapter intros - and then seeing where that leads you with the rest of the chapter - might be the best way to begin. It also helps deal with that 'chicken-egg dilemma' mentioned earlier: test first when what you learn doesn't relate to the real world vs. getting some IR flying experience and then its value dissipating while you shift to studying for the test.

Suggest you view and then bookmark the Chapter contents of the FAA's Instrument Flying Handbook, so it's available for later referral. This reference is a useful way to research something that isn't clear to you, it's relatively recent, and of course it's free.

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/...083-15A - Cover Preface Table of Contents.pdf

Jack
 
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I used Pilot Training Solutions (smaller outfit than Sportys or King), and I got an 88% on the written. I found their approach to be very easy to understand (making complex topics very simple), and also appreciated all the helpful learning mnemonics and tricks (not just acronyms!).

A couple of helpful value-adds they provide:
1 - you get all mediums (iPad, online, PC, Mac) included in the same cost - not true of Sportys
2 - they gave me their check-ride prep product for free. this may have just been a temporary promotion, but it is very thorough

Also, their customer service is really great. I had some questions concerning the material (e.g., "why is wind reported in true direction but instruments are all magnetic?") - and they responded to each of my emails within ~5-10 minutes. For one email, they asked if we could speak on the phone to explain a more complex topic.

They also provide a bank of test questions and answers (650 or so), as well as the supplements which you will get with the test. I realize that these are FAA properties (largely), so may not be a big deal, but they do a good job of walking you through what to expect and ensuring you're prepared.

They have a bunch of YouTube videos up, so it may be worth checking those out to see if their approach would work for you or not.
 
There are two categories. Learning the FAA party line drivel for the test (in which case my favorite is Irwin Gleim's stuff) and learning the background necessary to actually have instrument flying knowledge. The books mentioned above are great for the latter.
 
nj-pilot said:
I used Pilot Training Solutions
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I used Pilot Training Solutions software as well and scored a 91% on my test. I have to agree that their customer service is incredible.

I had scheduled my test for a Sunday afternoon and had problems with my middle name missing from the endorsement. That was actually my fault, when I went back to the email from them they did specify to provide my full name as shown on my medical / pilot license.

Long story short I called them, thinking I was out of luck, and asked if they could help and within 10 minutes they emailed a new endorsement to the testing center and I was able to take the test.

Triple thumbs up to their support and software. :):):)

I will go back to them for my commercial test.
 
I did the Kind course and then, just for good measure, I attended an Aviation Seminars IFR course. It was excellent and cleared up some things that I was confused about. I don't remember my exact score but it was >90%.
 
I have Sheppard Air and Gleim along with PTS for test prep. Been watching Sportys videos for IFR but since I am in San Diego, I may hit up the Kings to buy a copy of their training videos plus it would be awesome to meet them in person!
 
I watched the Sporty's IFR course about 3 times throughout my training process. I used Sheppard Air to 2 day cram for the test. Both items worked out great.
 
I flew some IFR in IMC and can tell you that the most common problems are communicating with ATC and bad weather. Flying in the clouds by instrument is only part of it. The IFR checkride is the hardest checkride most agree. Easiest way is take a class solid start to finish several hours a day. One of those mills where the DE runs the school. Dont have a GPS in the plane. Not that thats what I did. Then go out and learn it for real. Start with actual that has VFR conditions under you above the MVA. And has a VFR airport as an alternate. Then get progressively more difficult from there. Avoid clouds below 35 degrees F. Stay safe!
 
Really satisfied with the American Flyers IFR course. They throw in FSX IFR flight instruction as a bonus if you're flying a sim in between lessons.
 
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